um..what's Loli??

[Angela Sanctisstessa]

god..i'm now really confused.....
hentai and ecchi.....

hentai...guess h-games really are hentai games....hentai in term of games has quite heavy sense of nudity..err..ecchi maybe a slight show of the skin and undergarments...

loli....is

Spoiler:

edward elric

included?

or maybe this... i guess this can be considered as loli since this teacher.....

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Angela Sanctisstessa

or maybe this... i guess this can be considered as loli since this teacher.....

One more example of an 'adult' loli.
Actually she's not in 5th grade or something, but more like a teacher :P
Here's another example :

Spoiler for those girls are supposed 18:

[dreamless]

AFAIK, hentai/ero has no direct relation to nudity, you can make a game with nude characters walking around all the time and it's not a hentai/ero game... for a game to be called hentai/ero, it needs explicit sex scenes involved. It doesn't even need to be nudity, if there's some explicit sex scenes in a game even if the characters involved has full clothes on (how is that possible... don't ask me... maybe some text descriptions... oh well...), it will still be called hentai/ero. I think (correct me if I'm wrong)

About that teacher in Hani Hani... I guess she's just an immortal... for the five years she doesn't age one bit all hail to the power of the immortal loli

[Thany]

Originally Posted by dreamless

AFAIK, hentai/ero has no direct relation to nudity, you can make a game with nude characters walking around all the time and it's not a hentai/ero game... for a game to be called hentai/ero, it needs explicit sex scenes involved. It doesn't even need to be nudity, if there's some explicit sex scenes in a game even if the characters involved has full clothes on (how is that possible... don't ask me... maybe some text descriptions... oh well...), it will still be called hentai/ero. I think (correct me if I'm wrong)

You sound almost like you've already played an ero-game like this :P
Well anything can happen in these : tentacles, death, etc.

Originally Posted by dreamless

About that teacher in Hani Hani... I guess she's just an immortal... for the five years she doesn't age one bit all hail to the power of the immortal loli

This would explain the fact she looks that young (in term of story I mean).

[Angela Sanctisstessa]

But Yui and thos girls are so kawaii....ero/hentai...i'have only played memories off of all japanese AVG...

tentacles... ...oh my god.....

[MidoriShinobi]

Just so you know, the age of consent in Japan is 13. (Yes, that's right, 13)
A large difference when compared to the 16 years in America..

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi

Just so you know, the age of consent in Japan is 13. (Yes, that's right, 13)
A large difference when compared to the 16 years in America..

Actually age of consent varies by state in the US. I think the lowest is like 14, and ranges from there on up, with most being 17 or 18 now.

Japan has something similar, while the national age is 13, many prefectures have raised the age as well.

[Shii]

Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi

A large difference when compared to the 16 years in America..

In most states, it's 18.

BTW, I don't know why people have such a problem with the fact that lolicon is simply the Japanese word for pedophile. This thread is full of people going "NO THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT" but they're the simply same word in different languages, and there's no distinguishing between attraction to characters and real girls in Japan. It's as if people said "HENTAI IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PORN".

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi

Just so you know, the age of consent in Japan is 13. (Yes, that's right, 13)
A large difference when compared to the 16 years in America..

Except, if you are over the age of 18 and have sexual intercourse with a minor (under the age of 18), you will be arrested and be tried as a child molestor.

Originally Posted by ashibaka

BTW, I don't know why people have such a problem with the fact that lolicon is simply the Japanese word for pedophile. This thread is full of people going "NO THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT" but they're the simply same word in different languages, and there's no distinguishing between attraction to characters and real girls in Japan. It's as if people said "HENTAI IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PORN".

Perhaps the Japanese dictionary makes the best distinction:

Loli-con: Abbreviation of Lolita-complex. The psychological yearning for an under-developed child. Based on Vladimir Nabokov's novel, "Lolita"

[MidoriShinobi]

I know if you're over 18, you will be tried, but still.

I think someone who is 13 having sex with an 18 year old would be taboo here.
America is much more uptight about it, I think. There aren't love hotels, etc.

[phatcat]

I'm really suprised how many are trying to legimize their behavior as innocent.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck, even if the box/manuals/website says its a goose.

[MikoKikyo]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Perhaps the Japanese dictionary makes the best distinction:

Loli-con: Abbreviation of Lolita-complex. The psychological yearning for an under-developed child. Based on Vladimir Nabokov's novel, "Lolita"

According to that definition, it makes no distinction whatever. "Pedophile" refers precisely to the sexual desire for children. That's what ashibaka was saying, that they're the same thing, and evidently they are.

In the US, the law does vary by State and sexual preference (to the person who said it was 16).

[zalas]

Originally Posted by PriestessKikyo

According to that definition, it makes no distinction whatever. "Pedophile" refers precisely to the sexual desire for children. That's what ashibaka was saying, that they're the same thing, and evidently they are.

In the US, the law does vary by State and gender (to the person who said it was 16).

But isn't there a difference between sexual desire and psychological yearning? I can have a psychological yearning for peaceful meadows, but that certainly doesn't mean I have a sexual desire for them.

[TronDD]

Originally Posted by ashibaka

BTW, I don't know why people have such a problem with the fact that lolicon is simply the Japanese word for pedophile. This thread is full of people going "NO THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT" but they're the simply same word in different languages, and there's no distinguishing between attraction to characters and real girls in Japan. It's as if people said "HENTAI IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PORN".

The term "lolicon" has entered the English language and is not used synonymously with "pedophile" (but I guess that doesn't mean it can't be).

Similarly, "otaku" is used by English speakers and it doesn't carry the same meaning as it does in Japanese. I've never heard anyone use "otaku" to refer to anything other than an anime fan and I've never heard anyone use "lolicon" to refer to anything other than an attraction to certain anime characters.

[MikoKikyo]

So apparently, the word has a connotation quite different from its dictionary definition.

Originally Posted by zalas

But isn't there a difference between sexual desire and psychological yearning? I can have a psychological yearning for peaceful meadows, but that certainly doesn't mean I have a sexual desire for them.

No, because the dictionary refered to this "psychological yearning" within the context of "Lolita", which means a strictly sexual yearning. There is no doubt that the dictionary term meant this "psychological yearning for an under-developed child" in a sexual way, and further proof that they did is with the mention of Lolita.

[Thany]

Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi

Just so you know, the age of consent in Japan is 13. (Yes, that's right, 13)
A large difference when compared to the 16 years in America..

That's exactly what I said was the reason that loli was 12 and under.

Originally Posted by ashibaka

In most states, it's 18.

BTW, I don't know why people have such a problem with the fact that lolicon is simply the Japanese word for pedophile. This thread is full of people going "NO THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT" but they're the simply same word in different languages, and there's no distinguishing between attraction to characters and real girls in Japan. It's as if people said "HENTAI IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PORN".

I don't remember anybody saying anything against it, the definition in itself is the same.
But this doesn't mean they would have an attraction to real life children (even if I admit the possibility is there too).

Hentai isn't totally different from porn, but it isn't the same thing.
Guro, shotacon, lolicon or anything you would think of isn't real there.

[AG3]

Originally Posted by phatcat

I'm really suprised how many are trying to legimize their behavior as innocent.

Soooo.... You're saying I'm guilty of something really bad if I play an ero-game that uses lolicon characters? Even though it's as fictional as that chainsaw to the back I give the cops in Vice City, which far less people seem to frown upon?

What if I were to read a book where the main character suddenly molests a child? If I later, based on the book as a whole, say that the book is great, have I been trying to "legitimize my behaviour as innocent" too? I have no control over the main character's actions in the book, and the same goes for many ero-games (due to storyline). Unlike the Vice City chainsaw massacres, or Vice City in general, where it is completely possible to play a law abiding citizen, even if it makes for a really boring game (limiting your actions and all that).

[Zephronite]

Oh noes the double standards go on and on.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by ashibaka

In most states, it's 18.

BTW, I don't know why people have such a problem with the fact that lolicon is simply the Japanese word for pedophile. This thread is full of people going "NO THEY'RE TOTALLY DIFFERENT" but they're the simply same word in different languages, and there's no distinguishing between attraction to characters and real girls in Japan. It's as if people said "HENTAI IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PORN".

err... there's no distinguishing between attraction to character and real girls in Japan? guess you haven't heard of the term "doll otaku" regarding whether hentai is porn, it actually depends on what's your definition of "porn". For this definition from this thread of porn

1. Courtesy to www.Dictionary.com
porn
n : creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire [syn: pornography, porno, erotica, smut]

then hentai is different from porn.. or rather hentai is a superset of porn, that means porns are all hentai, but not all hentai stuffs are porn. Of course if you think the above definition of porn is wrong and you think porn can be something with certain literary or artistic value, then maybe it will be a different situation for you.

Originally Posted by phatcat

I'm really suprised how many are trying to legimize their behavior as innocent.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck, even if the box/manuals/website says its a goose.

I'm not going to say that lolicon is an... "innocent" behaviour, but let's say it's no more innocent or guilty as those people playing Quake, CS, RTCW, DOOM, etc. etc. blowing people's heads off and frag each other online. Sure child molest is illegal, but killing people is illegal too, and yup becoming terrorists to kill CTs is absolutely illegal it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but I doubt all FPS players will become serial killers. Sure some kids playing too much quake have gone shooting their classmates in shcool, and some guys playing too much loli hentai/ero stuff have gone raping little girls, but on the whole, well, if you want to "criminalise" lolicons, maybe you should "criminalise" those FPS players at the same time. And maybe for some guy to enjoy playing GTA3, it means he has a tendency to steal cars and blow up things and kill innocent people?

And maybe for people enjoy watching yaoi/yuri shows it means they are homosexuals? So if an anime fan enjoys watching loli animes, yaoi animes, yuri animes, violent animes, Angel Sanctuary/Koi Kaze, etc. etc. that means the said anime fan is a pedophile, gay, lesbian, and a future serial killer in the making all at the same time? oh, and ready to commit incest too. wow!

[phatcat]

I just can't belive you guys are serious about defending your position.

I would like to think I'm very open minded, but I'm sorry I draw the line at looking at children sexually drawn or not.