Gundam Wing

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by JC...

Guys, should I watch Gundam Wing? I was a bit turned off by some of the character/clothing designs etc. but how good is the storyline?

I really enjoyed the plot for a number of reasons and would recommend you watch the series. However, there are hundreds of GW critics who don't think it's worth watching, citing the story as one of chief reasons they dislike the series.

I say watch the series and form your own opinion.

[Shikabane_Hime]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

I really enjoyed the plot for a number of reasons and would recommend you watch the series. However, there are hundreds of GW critics who don't think it's worth watching, citing the story as one of chief reasons they dislike the series.

I say watch the series and form your own opinion.

I agree. I've been trying to find other Gundam Wing fans for a long time, most of the forums I find are almost nothing but criticism. I will admit that there were somethings I didn't like about the series (the continuation of Relena's life for one) but over all it wasn't that bad. The one thing you have to remember is, watching Gundam Wing now is like watching Ronin Warriors now. Laugh at the plot holes and other things that just don't make sense, and if the clothing seems tacky laugh at it too. After all the series did originally come out in, like the early nineties. Unless the information I gathered from wikipedia is incorrect (Please don't attack me because I know that it is very possible) then Gundam Wing originally aired in 1995-1996 while Gundam SEED aired in 2003 and Gundam UC is even more recent. It's the same as going back and watching the old Nick cartoons that a lot of people grew up on. We watch, laugh, and go "OMG mom let me watch this? It's horrible!". ^_^

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

I really enjoyed the plot for a number of reasons and would recommend you watch the series. However, there are hundreds of GW critics who don't think it's worth watching, citing the story as one of chief reasons they dislike the series.

I say watch the series and form your own opinion.

I think that the critics are those who try to compare it to other Gundam works, esp. those who watched SEED first, and those who aren't (or at least casual) mecha fans.

I forgot to mention that it'll take at least two viewings to understand the story. When I watched Evangelion back in 2005, I was confused, and I gave up watching Wolf's Rain.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I think that the critics are those who try to compare it to other Gundam works, esp. those who watched SEED first, and those who aren't (or at least casual) mecha fans.

I forgot to mention that it'll take at least two viewings to understand the story. When I watched Evangelion back in 2005, I was confused, and I gave up watching Wolf's Rain.

I disagree with your first point to an extent. While I've seen many people compare GW to to other Gundam series, I've ran into and debated with numerous critics of the show who didn't watch SEED first. I've also encountered many ardent Gundam fans that don't care for GW. Some of them are UC bigots, while others don't like the series due to gripes with the characters, plot or mechs.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

So...does anyone know if there is anyone, or already pre-existing translations for all this new Wing lineart we're getting?

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

I disagree with your first point to an extent. While I've seen many people compare GW to to other Gundam series, I've ran into and debated with numerous critics of the show who didn't watch SEED first. I've also encountered many ardent Gundam fans that don't care for GW. Some of them are UC bigots, while others don't like the series due to gripes with the characters, plot or mechs.

I know about the UC diehards.

I also think that Wing gets a bad rap because of the yaoi fangirls. Wingzerosnuggles, can you post that pic you have describing what I said?

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I know about the UC diehards.

I also think that Wing gets a bad rap because of the yaoi fangirls. Wingzerosnuggles, can you post that pic you have describing what I said?

Agreed about the yaoi fan-girls.

Here's the pic

[fizzmaister]

Being a Wing fan myself, there are a few flaws that are pretty glaring. It's hard to connect with the characters, some are larger than life, and others seem to be devoid of anything to latch onto. The mecha battles suffer from the usual super robot in a real robot world. But probably the biggest "problem" is the politics. The politics are rich, complex, fascinating, and don't make a bit of sense the first time you watch the series.

And the fangirls, ohh the fangirls. And while on the topic of fan reactions, there seems to be a very strong backlash against Wing due to people showing up on forums going "OMG I love Gundam. Gundam Wing is bestest TV show ever." I understand those people because I was one of them (minus the going on forums part) for a good while. When I first saw it, Gundam Wing was nothing like I had ever seen before. This of course has galvanized people against Wing.

[wingzerosnuggles]

You like it. You don't like it. Doesn't matter. Fandom shouldn't have an impact on your decision to watch or not. Form you own thoughts on it. If it's not to your liking, move on. Just don't go into mindless bashing. On the other spectrum, if you're going to talk about how much you love the series, have something to back it up. I think it's as simple as that when picking ANYTHING you want to watch. Being swayed into watching a show based SOLELY on fan opinions is stupid. Maybe read up on it on Wiki and see if it floats your boat. Look at the mechs. Watch some clips. GW is a long show, and you don't want to waste time on something you won't like. That's how the people who bash it are born. You know the type: "OMG, I can't believe I wasted time on this shit!" IMO, do your research before investing your time. I'm all for more people watching it as long as those people weigh their options and are sure they'll enjoy themselves. GW is entertainment, after all.

[Shikabane_Hime]

Good point. My reason for watching was because I loved the action. And, seeing as I was only eleven or so when I watched it I am willing to admit this, I also had huge crushes on most of the characters. If I were to watch it now I would probably still like it but I would also be able to understand more than a third of what's going on in the series. As far as doing research, I agree. Look up the storyline and such. Don't watch something that really isn't your cup of tea just because a bunch of other people really liked it. That would be a good way to torture one's self.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

So...does anyone know if there is anyone, or already pre-existing translations for all this new Wing lineart we're getting?

Anyone? Just looking for the right direction. There's gotta translations out there somewhere right?

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Anyone? Just looking for the right direction. There's gotta translations out there somewhere right?

I don't but maybe Deacon would be up to translating some of them for you.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

I don't but maybe Deacon would be up to translating some of them for you.

All that translating work for one person? Eh, I don't he'd waste time with that. I think he has enough work with doing all the Frozen Tear Drop stuff.

[TheOre-Sama]

I'd have to say, Gundam Wing is actually one of the better Gundam shows and I will gladly explain my reasoning for such. For starters, I should probably list Gundam shows I liked and disliked to give an idea:

liked:
Wing
G Gundam
ZZ
8th MS Team
Unicorn(anime, haven't read the novelization)
Seed

disliked:
Zeta
Seed Destiny
Victory Gundam
Gundam 00

Inbetween:
Mobile Suit Gundam
Stardust Memory

There's no particular formula for what constitutes a good Gundam series. I enjoyed G Gundam because it knew what it was and revelled in it. It took itself only half serious and made no reservations about it's cheesyness and ham. It was just a fun, fun show. It can't really be compared to the others except maybe ZZ because it's so very different.

First thing that hooked me onto Wing was it's first episode, probably one of the stronger opening episodes for an anime. The first half was basically Zecks chasing down Heero and sending him plummeting into the ocean, yet the intrigue of the characters and just the way it was executed was so well done. Now it does have it's slow spots, especially early on, but it does manage for the most part to maintain a high standard of quality. In fact that's the first strong point of Gundam Wing, the characters. I really liked the way Heero was portrayed. At the start he seems like an unstable psychotic, then an emotionless killing machine, but the revelation that he both believes in living by emotions yet follows orders, including hiding his emotions, feels natural and is an interesting dual nature. Duo is a cocky smart alleck but he's not completely normal in personality, just in comparison with the other characters. Quatra has a highly emotional nature but he's not a purity sue by any means:we see a much darker side to that trait. Relena's behavior is very odd at many points but she does overall ring as a good character. Her want for a world without war is well portrayed. Someone called her useless earlier but considering she helped influence a movement towards pacifissm with her words would negate that premise. Really, the only character I don't care for is Wufei. Wufei shares traits with other matyrs of annoyance such as Kamile Biden and Shinn Asuka, and needless to say I would not be saddened to see all three shot out of an airlock with no space suit.

Most Gundam series tend to try to find a balance, showing the horrors of war from a civilian and soldier standpoint while presenting the politics behind the war, but Wing focus more on the latter, and this actually works to it's advantage. Now certainly other series have probed into why we have war, with Wing seems especially focused on this issue, even probing into the romanticism of war and the people who benefit most, the weapons manufacturers. This alone doesn't differentiate it too much, but the way it's presented does. Many older Gundam shows, the politics of war were rather bland and boring with a few exceptions. Here I actually enjoy watching the debates and am much more interested in the politics.

Next, the battles. Now not having great battle choreograqphy isn't death for a series(8th MS Team really only had one fight that could be considered good on it's own but I liked that series) but it can hurt. Some earlier Gundams(Zeta for example) suffered from rather unimaginative battles while some later ones(Seed Destiny) suffered from poor directing, making it hard to tell what was going on. The wing battles struck a good balance, having pretty strong battles that could be easily followed. There was definetly a power factor but tactics were still stressed, and stressed in any relevant situation on and off the battlefield.

Coming back to the characters, most of the character archs were strong. Treize's disatisfaction with the state of the world and his final action on the matter, Zecks, who prided himself on his identity as a soldier and his honor, dealing with the fact both would become irrelevant in a world leading towards pacifism even though he also in a way supported that reasoning. It could easily be argued his final coup was in fact intentionaly led to lead to that.

Now I know that Gundam Wing takes a lot from Mobile Suit Gundam. In fact it's almost a remake in ways, but honestly I rather prefer Wing's approach to many of the ideas presented in MSG. For example I much prefer the dynamic between Heero, Zecks and Relena as opposed to the poorly developed dual romance with Ammuro and Char with Lalah that was forced simply to make Ammuro and Char's rivalry personal. I also prefered Zecks final plan to Char's final one for multipe reasons but a big one is the fact it focused more on it, eliminating unecessary interference such as Lalah's spirit or people lusting over Quess that really brought CCA down.

So overall I'd give Gundam Wing an 8 out of 10:some slower episodes in the beggining and the inclusion of Wufei brought it down a bit.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by TheOre-Sama

I'd have to say, Gundam Wing is actually one of the better Gundam shows and I will gladly explain my reasoning for such. For starters, I should probably list Gundam shows I liked and disliked to give an idea:

liked:
Wing
G Gundam
ZZ
8th MS Team
Unicorn(anime, haven't read the novelization)
Seed

disliked:
Zeta
Seed Destiny
Victory Gundam
Gundam 00

Inbetween:
Mobile Suit Gundam
Stardust Memory

There's no particular formula for what constitutes a good Gundam series. I enjoyed G Gundam because it knew what it was and revelled in it. It took itself only half serious and made no reservations about it's cheesyness and ham. It was just a fun, fun show. It can't really be compared to the others except maybe ZZ because it's so very different.

First thing that hooked me onto Wing was it's first episode, probably one of the stronger opening episodes for an anime. The first half was basically Zecks chasing down Heero and sending him plummeting into the ocean, yet the intrigue of the characters and just the way it was executed was so well done. Now it does have it's slow spots, especially early on, but it does manage for the most part to maintain a high standard of quality. In fact that's the first strong point of Gundam Wing, the characters. I really liked the way Heero was portrayed. At the start he seems like an unstable psychotic, then an emotionless killing machine, but the revelation that he both believes in living by emotions yet follows orders, including hiding his emotions, feels natural and is an interesting dual nature. Duo is a cocky smart alleck but he's not completely normal in personality, just in comparison with the other characters. Quatra has a highly emotional nature but he's not a purity sue by any means:we see a much darker side to that trait. Relena's behavior is very odd at many points but she does overall ring as a good character. Her want for a world without war is well portrayed. Someone called her useless earlier but considering she helped influence a movement towards pacifissm with her words would negate that premise. Really, the only character I don't care for is Wufei. Wufei shares traits with other matyrs of annoyance such as Kamile Biden and Shinn Asuka, and needless to say I would not be saddened to see all three shot out of an airlock with no space suit.

Most Gundam series tend to try to find a balance, showing the horrors of war from a civilian and soldier standpoint while presenting the politics behind the war, but Wing focus more on the latter, and this actually works to it's advantage. Now certainly other series have probed into why we have war, with Wing seems especially focused on this issue, even probing into the romanticism of war and the people who benefit most, the weapons manufacturers. This alone doesn't differentiate it too much, but the way it's presented does. Many older Gundam shows, the politics of war were rather bland and boring with a few exceptions. Here I actually enjoy watching the debates and am much more interested in the politics.

Next, the battles. Now not having great battle choreograqphy isn't death for a series(8th MS Team really only had one fight that could be considered good on it's own but I liked that series) but it can hurt. Some earlier Gundams(Zeta for example) suffered from rather unimaginative battles while some later ones(Seed Destiny) suffered from poor directing, making it hard to tell what was going on. The wing battles struck a good balance, having pretty strong battles that could be easily followed. There was definetly a power factor but tactics were still stressed, and stressed in any relevant situation on and off the battlefield.

Coming back to the characters, most of the character archs were strong. Treize's disatisfaction with the state of the world and his final action on the matter, Zecks, who prided himself on his identity as a soldier and his honor, dealing with the fact both would become irrelevant in a world leading towards pacifism even though he also in a way supported that reasoning. It could easily be argued his final coup was in fact intentionaly led to lead to that.

Now I know that Gundam Wing takes a lot from Mobile Suit Gundam. In fact it's almost a remake in ways, but honestly I rather prefer Wing's approach to many of the ideas presented in MSG. For example I much prefer the dynamic between Heero, Zecks and Relena as opposed to the poorly developed dual romance with Ammuro and Char with Lalah that was forced simply to make Ammuro and Char's rivalry personal. I also prefered Zecks final plan to Char's final one for multipe reasons but a big one is the fact it focused more on it, eliminating unecessary interference such as Lalah's spirit or people lusting over Quess that really brought CCA down.

So overall I'd give Gundam Wing an 8 out of 10:some slower episodes in the beggining and the inclusion of Wufei brought it down a bit.

Fine post my friend. I wanted to address some points you made.

Wufei. I won't go into why he's my favorite character in the series but I don't see how he's a "martyr of annoyance". I can understand you having an issue some of things he said or did, especially late in the series. But to me, when you consider what he experienced in Episode Zero and during the series, I think he was justified in some his actions.

Your paragraph on the political elements of the series was spot on. I thoroughly enjoyed the way militarism was portrayed in GW. It was truly a strength of the show.

To your remarks about tactics being prevalent, again, well said. While the Gundam pilots themselves only really used battle tactics in the final battles, tactics were much more common in the series than some people like to remember.

Not to be antagonistic but it's subtly hinted(and at times blatantly obvious) it was Zechs' intention to bring lasting peace to the world by bringing it to brink of annihilation.

I agree with on Zechs's plan being done better than Char's in CCA in certain ways. I won't delve too heavily into my thoughts on CCA as a whole or even Char's "master plan" but really, for all the grief GW gets for "ripping off" CCA, to me at least, Zechs' plan was more plausible, concise and sincere.

[Shikabane_Hime]

Both of you have very strong points. I'll admit that Wufei is probably one of my least favorite characters in the series but he was a strong character and a good addition to Wing. Look at it this way, while you got some pretty good glimpses into Heero's head during Endless Waltz it was really his confrontation with Wufei that gave you the best view of Heero's thoughts. You also got to see just how dynamic of a character Wufei is. Granted I haven't seen the actual series in years, but I do remember enough of it to know that Wufei was a good character despite his faults and Gundam Wing wouldn't have been the same without him.

As for Relena, yeah she played an important role, but could she have been any more annoying? Just the thought of her foolish and downright stalker behavior makes me cringe. I know there was more to her than that but still!

I would love to get my hands on a copy of the entire series, maybe watching it at age 20 will mean I'll understand the series better than I did at 11.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Shikabane_Hime

Both of you have very strong points. I'll admit that Wufei is probably one of my least favorite characters in the series but he was a strong character and a good addition to Wing. Look at it this way, while you got some pretty good glimpses into Heero's head during Endless Waltz it was really his confrontation with Wufei that gave you the best view of Heero's thoughts. You also got to see just how dynamic of a character Wufei is. Granted I haven't seen the actual series in years, but I do remember enough of it to know that Wufei was a good character despite his faults and Gundam Wing wouldn't have been the same without him.

As for Relena, yeah she played an important role, but could she have been any more annoying? Just the thought of her foolish and downright stalker behavior makes me cringe. I know there was more to her than that but still!

I would love to get my hands on a copy of the entire series, maybe watching it at age 20 will mean I'll understand the series better than I did at 11.

Agreed on Wufei.

The word "stalker" is often used to describe Relena but I think it's exaggerated. She sought out Heero early in the series but definitely not in the latter half.

[Shikabane_Hime]

I've tried getting passed her actions in the first half of the series but I can't do it. I've watched EW so many times I've probably got most of the script memorized but when ever I try to picture Relena the part that pops into my head the most is the part where she's either yelling at Heero to kill Zechs or the part where she's standing on a cliff yelling for Heero to kill her.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Shikabane_Hime

I've tried getting passed her actions in the first half of the series but I can't do it. I've watched EW so many times I've probably got most of the script memorized but when ever I try to picture Relena the part that pops into my head the most is the part where she's either yelling at Heero to kill Zechs or the part where she's standing on a cliff yelling for Heero to kill her.

You could understand her wanting Zechs dead considering he was technically part of OZ and they killed her father. Her standing on a cliff yelling for Heero to come and kill her was pretty weird though.

Still, she matured as a character.

[wingzerosnuggles]

Typical double standard. Nobody ever bothers to note that Heero stalks her back in the second half and keeps tabs on her during the interquels. Just because he's more subtle about it doesn't make him less of a stalker. Meanwhile, she pretty much just goes about her business in the interquels and EW. I mean she's glad when he shows up but she doesn't go out of her way to seek him out. And she was a fifteen year old girl when the ridiculousness happened. One who was lonely despite her privilege. I can forgive the eccentricities considering how much her life changed when they dropped the Peacecraft parental bomb on her, and how well she handled it.