2011-02-05, 16:15 | Link #1422 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 45
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I have mixed feelings about this news about book 17. I had myself prepared for Lawrence to die in some battle/tragedy in book 16 with a touching end moment with Holo. Not that I wanted that to happen!!!
Now my mind keeps racing about different scenarios in a story all its own. I still have to be prepared to not be happy, cause lets face it, a story like this has a slim chance of happily ever after. Of course I'd be lieing if I said I didn't want that to happen. Are we thinking the forums with explode with spoilers when these books come out, or is everyone going to be teasing us that actual know? Good thing I know people that can read Japanese lol |
2011-02-06, 13:32 | Link #1423 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Age: 42
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Does that mean vol 16 won't reveal anything about the end of their travel? |
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2011-02-06, 16:05 | Link #1424 | |
an idler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Suzuka
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It is unknown what the end of a travel means. If Vol.16 is released, readers will be able to guess what it is. |
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2011-02-08, 06:17 | Link #1426 |
Team Spice and Wolf UK
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England
Age: 36
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Well the way I read what we know is Book 16 will be the final part of the main story; travelling to Holo's home of Yoitsu, and will probably be a happy ending (in fact it almost has to be given what we know of Book 17)
Book 17 will likely be a collection of short stories taken at varies time gaps after this period, and will cover a few of the things that happened after. It will quite possibly end with Lawrence's passing away; the end of thier journey together. If this is after a long and happy life together for the pair, I wouldn't so much call this an unhappy ending, but just the march of time.
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2011-02-08, 19:33 | Link #1427 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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But if Lawrence is the "true love" of Holo's long life, than she will be left somewhat empty after his passing, so . . . . that leave's something to addressed. The way this series has been built up, I can't see her happy with anyone else, or as happy afterwards.
So unless she sacrifices her immortality (if that is possible) after he dies, or some other deux ex machina happens, I'm not sure that will be a "happy ending." JThree |
2011-02-09, 00:33 | Link #1428 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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Despite the romantic undertones, the story has really not been about their romance. Lawrence's story has been about him coming to terms with life outside of business, and realizing how shallow his aspirations and dreams are. Likewise, Holo's realized a lot of important things about life as a (relative) immortal and what happens when she tries to ignore that aspect of herself. In short I hope the story will make good use of this character development and it's more adult/mature approach. There are plenty of classic stories about childish people who just want to die together, after all. |
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2011-02-10, 08:22 | Link #1431 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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I think one of the main subplots of the series, is Holo finding out how hollow being immortal is -- without someone to share it; rather than moving on after you've lost a loved one. If the plot calls for it, would it be that bad if she gave her immortality to have a mortal existance (and death) with Lawrence? Or does that smack too much of Hans Christian Anderson's "Little Mermaid" syndrome? The original, not the Disney version, mind you. P.S. I think Holo and Lawrence have more depth than Romeo and Juliet ever did. JThree Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2011-02-10 at 11:27. |
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2011-02-10, 20:57 | Link #1436 |
an idler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Suzuka
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I finished reading Vol.16 now.
I comment as abstractly as possible. Spoiler for Vol.16:
It seems that Holo and Lawrence go to Nyohira in Vol.17 according to the afterword. I can't wait for Vol.17. |
2011-02-11, 01:24 | Link #1438 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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I didn't mean wanting to literally "die together" in the Romeo and Juliet sense, that was probably a poor choice of words. I meant more along the lines of stories that try to reconcile things in a simple or convenient manner - ie, an immortal becoming mortal or vice-versa. Rather than coping with grief and loss, it is avoided in some way, swept under the rug.
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But that's my point, really. I'd like to see the story solve it's problems. We've been invested in the idea that Lawrence wants to see Holo overcome these issues inherent to her immortality and loneliness.. and that Holo's fears of these issues are preventing her from growing closer to him. I'd like to see those things solved, without some cheap opt-out. Otherwise it won't feel "complete" to me. That's the best I can do to explain why I want a less "convenient" ending. So much of what I've read so far is directly based on themes of coping with loneliness, and dealing with loss. If those problems simply vanish into a puff of romantic smoke, then what was the point? Quote:
But would that really feel like a solution worthy of the story? I'm not sure, it depends on how the novels progress from volumes 5 onward. But I still fear it would end up feeling way too convenient, like the same kind of "escape from reality" that your post-50-years-of-marriage idea had. More like a children's fable than an adult's hard look at reality. Might as well watch a happily-ever-after Disney movie, where I'm not so invested in the characters and the exploration of their problems. It's a series of light novels, not a play. It's also about relatively intelligent adults, not "star crossed" dumbass teenagers. So yeah, I would hope just those two facts would grant it far more depth |
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2011-02-11, 08:39 | Link #1439 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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I suppose I do as well, because it implies they aren't really solving their problems.
But that's my point, really. I'd like to see the story solve it's problems. We've been invested in the idea that Lawrence wants to see Holo overcome these issues inherent to her immortality and loneliness.. and that Holo's fears of these issues are preventing her from growing closer to him. Is it so much fears as the reality of the situation. I'd like to see those things solved, without some cheap opt-out. Otherwise it won't feel "complete" to me. That's the best I can do to explain why I want a less "convenient" ending. So much of what I've read so far is directly based on themes of coping with loneliness, and dealing with loss. If those problems simply vanish into a puff of romantic smoke, then what was the point? I see what you're saying, but is it possible for some fictional couples to both realize they will have ongoing problems and still have a romantic ending? Just speculating. There was another fictional romantic storyline where after all the grief and suffering the characters went through together, they parted their own ways forever. From the evidence of the storyline, they were going off to be as miserable separately as they supposedly were together. My impression has always been that she knew this all along, and that she's so drunk on her newfound joy that it's become painful to think about her immortality anymore. Again, that's the conflict I am talking about wanting to see resolved. The story certainly can solve the conflict by letting her live with another immortal, perhaps even Lawrence. Ok, I'm not sure if I would use the term "drunk" as opposed to another term. Perhaps more caught up in the flux of emotions she hasn't had in centuries. Holo has recently experience joy, sorrow, happiness, jealousy (with Lawrence's relationship with Nora), anger, etc. Perhaps the term "overwhelmed" might be better, IMHO. But would that really feel like a solution worthy of the story? ore like a children's fable than an adult's hard look at reality. Might as well watch a happily-ever-after Disney movie, where I'm not so invested in the characters and the exploration of their problems.That leads to another question on my part. Are sad, unhappy endings where the couple part "deeper" than happy ever after endings? I wonder about that, or is just the way the author presents the material, characters, and storyline. Enjoying this conversation. JThree |
2011-02-11, 09:37 | Link #1440 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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I think so, because by avoiding interacting with humans, Holo only became more miserable anyhow. Why not interact, be happy, and accept the misery at the end? The only argument is whether it's a difference in degrees - whether suffering alone eternally is any worse than a serious grieving period followed by more happiness. Whether you call it "her fears" or "the reality of the situation", that's still the core conflict for her, right?
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Romance has been a core part of the story so far, so it certainly would be nice for the romance to continue, or have a meaningful ending.. but a "life goes on" ending is fine too. In fact I would prefer that to a forced ending. I don't think a story needs to provide full closure on everything, just enough to provide a reasonable ending for that chapter of it's character's lives. Yes, that's the meaning I intended to convey. I just used "drunk" because she's.. well.. a bit of a big drinker. Sorry for the bad pun Quote:
So in the context of a broken romance, whether it's "deep" or not has to do with whether the characters have given things a shot, and come to a convincing conclusion (or showing how they will deal with a forced parting). In other words, I'll be happy if, given a immortality-status-change ending, both Lawrence and Holo have explored the possibility as any adults who love each other would. I just don't want it to feel cheap and/or contrived, given the level at which this story explores these kinds of things. Very few stories that end that way even remotely try. What if Lawrence became immortal, and then their relationship turned sour? Suddenly we have two miserable immortals. Don't even get me started on how Lawrence would feel if Holo becomes mortal and dies a sudden death.. do you think he'd be able to cope with the guilt? |
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light novels, seinen, shounen |
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