AnimeSuki Forums

Dextro · 2011-03-04, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

wandering-dreamer pointed something given her behavior.

Spoiler for About the possible Trauma:

Right on the money if you ask me.

Dralha · 2011-03-04, 21:36

Whoa...

Spoiler for Episode 7:

Kismet-chan · 2011-03-05, 00:18

Spoiler for Episode 7:

Kanon · 2011-03-05, 02:30

Phryné being a rape victim does make sense. It would explain her apparent self-loathing. Rape victims tend to blame themselves and think they're "dirty".

Forsaken_Infinity · 2011-03-05, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Spoiler for episode 7:

Same here. I was actually very very unamused by this. I don't get why people found it the most exciting episode so far. Boring episode that was all over the place.

RiderLeangle · 2011-03-05, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

Same here. I was actually very very unamused by this. I don't get why people found it the most exciting episode so far. Boring episode that was all over the place.

Well take away the first half and just leave the second half and it's done more than the 6 and a half episodes before it, like be interesting...

I'm not trying to be a hater yet something about this show just doesn't grab me.. for some reason I still watch.. guess just to see in case something happens.. Like it gets a plot

**Solace** · 2011-03-06, 08:20

I finished marathoning up to episode 7. I actually found myself enjoying this series quite a bit. It's far too ambitious for what it tries to do, but other than that the setting is really fun to watch and think about. The pacing is slow, and the plot suffers for this, especially in regards to how much time is shown with Lost Millenium compared to the rest of Fractale and the Temple, but the hints are usually enough to extrapolate with. I loved Xanadu though, amazing design.

I can definitely see why this is unpopular with the average anime fan though.

cyth · 2011-03-06, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

I can definitely see why this is unpopular with the average anime fan though.

The way I see it, and others have mentioned this before, the main reason why one were to watch Fractale would be because of the Fractale system itself. In this essence, Fractale is not as much of an action-adventure story as it is a mystery. I wouldn't say the characters are bad or that their development is impaired, they lack impact for sure, but they're all subservient to the unfolding of the setting. The main writer, Azuma Hiroki, talked about this in his works, how today's otaku do not care as much for the worldview and story progressions as they do for character designs. That's why so many fans got caught up on things such as Team Rocket or Clain wearing fundoshi and so on. As the author himself is aware of the situation, I believe they wanted to push viewers into a different direction, making a story similar to the likes of .hack// where greater importance is placed on the essence of the world itself rather than the grand story or the lives of characters within. So the otaku didn't quite bite the idea, but the general audiences didn't play along as well, although for the former it's more a fault of the anime format, the genre of the story, and of the visual presentation.

Key Board · 2011-03-06, 12:52

http://twitter.com/takashipom

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...8/e8b0ad62.png
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...3/a3acf691.png
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...5/35a83311.png
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...c/9cdb6b00.png

Takashi Murakami seems baffled at his recent cameo in Fractale 07

Yamakan reassures him it's respect but seeing your animated self

Spoiler:

Yamakan then says he apologizes if he has insulted Murakami, but if Murakami is unwilling to accept it and makes a fuss over this, that is also acceptable. (because then it becomes viral marketing?)

wandering-dreamer · 2011-03-06, 15:16

Erm, what exactly are you referring to? I managed to find those tweets and plug them into google translate but I'm still confused, who exactly is Takashi Murakami and how did he appear in Fractale? Was he the sculptor guy?

ttdestroy · 2011-03-06, 18:59

Isn't TM that controversial artist?

Anyway Xanadu seems similar to a city in something else but i can't place it.

FatPianoBoy · 2011-03-06, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyth

I wouldn't say the characters are bad or that their development is impaired, they lack impact for sure, but they're all subservient to the unfolding of the setting. The main writer, Azuma Hiroki, talked about this in his works, how today's otaku do not care as much for the worldview and story progressions as they do for character designs.

The problem here is that characters are what drive a story. This isn't just an otaku thing, it's a fundamental aspect of creative writing. The character with the most depth at this point is Clain, and even he isn't very deep. He likes antique technology and lampshading how ridiculous the script is. Phryne hates love because she thinks she doesn't deserve to be loved. Nessa loves love. Enri projects her fascination with sex onto everything around her. Sunda may or may not be completely crazy. That's basically all we know about this cast after seven episodes. Clain's father was better developed than our main characters, and that's a problem.

Emphasizing the world over the characters themselves can work, but they're not doing that very well, either. We're being intentionally kept in the dark about the Fractale system and the people who run it, presumably so they can have some big reveal at the end where all the pieces fall into place. The problem is that we're not really learning anything interesting about it in the meantime. Xanadu was cool, but what about the people who live like nomads in the real world while their doppels play there? Do they live similar to the people from Lost Millenium while still being connected to Fractale? How do the Granitz feel about keeping the best of both worlds like this? What about the guy on life support who can only experience the world virtually? They have an interesting setting, but it's not being explored. Most of the screen time is being wasted on pervert jokes, inane slapstick and old women forcing a boy to wear the underwear they like. The framework of an interesting story is here, but the writers have no idea how to bring it out.

cyth · 2011-03-06, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Emphasizing the world over the characters themselves can work, but they're not doing that very well, either. We're being intentionally kept in the dark about the Fractale system and the people who run it, presumably so they can have some big reveal at the end where all the pieces fall into place.

Regarding intentional vagueness, you could apply such notions to every anime that holds a grand secret, but we don't because in some cases it makes sense to be vague, because that's not all there is to that anime. Yet Fractale only has its setting, it doesn't have a solid storyline, it doesn't have strong characters. You could argue quality on these two merits alone, but anime has the luxury to focus on only a couple of aspects and can still turn out interesting. Granted, the story's setting has rarely been important, but in Fractale's case, I believe it's extremely important.

Imagine if the setting, the Fractale system, was well-defined at the very beginning, in what direction would this anime be heading then? We can't really know for sure, but with all the different factions involved and main characters being what they are, it would most likely come down to a sekai-kei story in which Clain and Nessa try to save the world. I'd go as far as to proclaim that even if such an ending were to happen and the story consequently overshadows everything else, feeling satisfaction over a solid ending isn't the point of this series anyway. So far the story has been all over the place because Clain isn't trying to take any sides, he's merely exploring and trying to get to know the truth (as shaky as this concept is turning out to be). I believe they've given us most of the clues what the grand picture of Fractale looks like. It has now come down to each individual's ability to construct Fractale's reality from tiny clues, and I'm ready to do that. Only Phryne's role hasn't been explained so far, but I'm guessing we'll find that out within the next two episodes. As for all the pieces falling into place in the end, I'm sure that's going to happen, but that's standard fare for any mystery-oriented series. Although, I do agree it does suck not being able to deduce who the killer is before the final chapter.

FatPianoBoy · 2011-03-07, 00:36

The problem is that it's keeping too much from us and being too vague. I'm more than willing to follow a trail of breadcrumbs, but with Fractale there's only a small piece of crust every few hundred feet and you have to wade through a swamp to get to them. In order to properly build suspense, you first need to grab the audience. I liked the first episode because it got my attention and piqued my curiosity. The next part of building suspense is gradually revealing things to broaden our understanding of the story in a way that makes us want to know more. Compare this show with Madoka Magica, which has basically the same appeal and has infinitely better storytelling.

To use Xanadu again, as visually spectacular as it was, it was a complete waste of time. We learn nothing from that episode until the last minute when Nessa goes berserk. Nearly everything else we could have figured out based on previously revealed information. Not that introducing the city in itself was a misstep, but it wasn't sufficiently explored to justify the amount of time spent on it. Episode six, however, is a good example of how to build suspense. We're introduced to a new issue (the collapse of society in a post-Fractale area), a new perspective (Clain's father taking the initiative and contributing to society despite being an advocate of the system) and a group who are using different methods to the same ends as the Temple. This broadens our understanding of the universe and makes it more interesting. Episodes seven and especially five do not do this and are basically just a waste of time. If the appeal is primarily the setting, then they should focus on it.

broken270 · 2011-03-07, 01:00

Spoiler:

Clain is really having fun with taking pictures of everything he sees...until he walks into the laundry room and gets lectured by Enri. Sad that Nessa cannot be taken, which makes sense since she is a doppel. So, Clain and Nessa were trying to find water when all of the sudden, she gets sick. To make matters worse, their ride fell and crashed. Clain wakes up in Xanadu, the "perfect" city where anything is possible with the help of Fractale. Clain has to crossdress in order to make people think he is a doppel too. Quite sad that he wanted to touch things but was unable to. Meanwhile, Phyrne, Enri, and the bodyguard try to find Clain and Nessa. They were introduced as a place free of Fractale that wishes to be one with nature. Enri and Phryne have their small moment together, Enri wishes to know the relationship between her and Clain, but Phyrne states that they are merely friends and that she does not have the right to love someone. Back in Xanadu, Clain attempts to find Nessa and was successful at it. Those two doppels attempt to give in information on how to help a doppel that was sick. Surprise, surprise, the reason Nessa was like that was because the priest were hacking into her system to find out where she is. To make matters worse, those two doppels are related to those priest in some why and wishes to make them stay a little longer until the priests arrive. Things are going wrong on both sides, since those people form before are nothing but a bunch of millionaires and billionaires who are also related to the priest and the Fractale system. Now that I think about it, it does make sense if the reason she cannot love was because she was a rape victim. If that is true, Phryne has quite a dark past, and it may be somewhat (or not at all) related to why she wants to end the Fractale system as a whole. Enri comes in and saves the day with her immense strength to swing that large pot onto his face. Meanwhile, Clain grabs Nessa and attempts to leave the city as quickly as possible. I am glad that Clain understands that touch was actually a good thing and needed. The woman dopple appears and shoots a virus at Clain. Nessa unlocks her powers and starts to destroy the city dependent upon Fractale. Enri, Phryne, and the bodyguard leaves the place and heads to Xanadu, which is actually a ghost town stone city like it should be. I find it awful that the man dopple's true form was that of a sickly, pale man that is connected with a bunch of electronics and data possible related to Fractale. Our male protagonist gets shot and the priests are there to take Phryne and Nessa back. What is going to happen now?

Mizuno · 2011-03-07, 05:02

So Phyrne was sexually assaulted before...? I can't believe they'd bring such depressing stuff into this. Who's to bet it's that mofo who's on the ship now that did the deed...? 100 bullets on his face won't suffice.

Kanon · 2011-03-07, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

To use Xanadu again, as visually spectacular as it was, it was a complete waste of time. We learn nothing from that episode until the last minute when Nessa goes berserk. Nearly everything else we could have figured out based on previously revealed information. Not that introducing the city in itself was a misstep, but it wasn't sufficiently explored to justify the amount of time spent on it. Episode six, however, is a good example of how to build suspense. We're introduced to a new issue (the collapse of society in a post-Fractale area), a new perspective (Clain's father taking the initiative and contributing to society despite being an advocate of the system) and a group who are using different methods to the same ends as the Temple. This broadens our understanding of the universe and makes it more interesting. Episodes seven and especially five do not do this and are basically just a waste of time. If the appeal is primarily the setting, then they should focus on it.

I couldn't agree more. To be honest, I was a little surprised so much people praised this episode, as episode 6 was a lot more solid all-around (and already explored the same theme). Episode 7 seemed as shallow as Xanadu to me. Looks amazing at first glance, but if you go deeper, you find out it's empty. Thankfully, the last quarter of the episode was good enough to salvage it.

Shyne · 2011-03-07, 19:50

I'm just glad there hasn't been the sterotypical pathetic beach episode like most anime seem to have that more often then not just destroys the momentum it has. The series feels rushed to me. They're trying to fit too much into 11 episodes and I think that addresses the issue of development that I keep seeing. I like the story, but it is rushed. If more time and episodes were put into the series I think the quality would be higher. Still the last 5 or so minutes was really great and makes me want to watch the next episode.

jzmagic · 2011-03-07, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizuno

So Phyrne was sexually assaulted before...? I can't believe they'd bring such depressing stuff into this. Who's to bet it's that mofo who's on the ship now that did the deed...? 100 bullets on his face won't suffice.

I was going to start watching this series soon, but as soon as I heard of her history, I'm pretty put off from doing so. Not a huge fan of rape history in fantasy/adventure anime.

Mizuno · 2011-03-07, 21:14

Well it's not a hard fact as of now, most of us are just speculating. But given the not so subtle hints that she was violated in the past in the latter part of episode 7, I think it's real. And we can tell who the bastard is already.

Seriously though Yamakan, this is a surprise we can do without. Is he trolling the otaku population now?

2011-03-04, 21:36	Link #682
Dralha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Neo-Venezia	Whoa... Spoiler for Episode 7: Nessa's virtual destruction of Xanadu was just awesome. __________________

2011-03-05, 00:18	Link #683
Kismet-chan The Chaotic Dreamer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world Age: 32	Spoiler for Episode 7: Dear GOD, this episode. The first half was kind of awkward and semi-uninteresting, but the second half... Holy hell. I'll take my Nessa with a side order of SSJ any day! And the theory of Phyrne being a rape victim is very interesting. I never ever would've guessed something like that. Anyway, I hope that's not the case. The thought of someone having tainted dear Phyrne is just awful. When Clain got shot, at first I was like, "OH SHT". Then I realized it was Clain* and I went "...Eh. <_<" __________________

2011-03-05, 02:30	Link #684
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	Phryné being a rape victim does make sense. It would explain her apparent self-loathing. Rape victims tend to blame themselves and think they're "dirty". __________________

2011-03-06, 08:20	Link #687
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	I finished marathoning up to episode 7. I actually found myself enjoying this series quite a bit. It's far too ambitious for what it tries to do, but other than that the setting is really fun to watch and think about. The pacing is slow, and the plot suffers for this, especially in regards to how much time is shown with Lost Millenium compared to the rest of Fractale and the Temple, but the hints are usually enough to extrapolate with. I loved Xanadu though, amazing design. I can definitely see why this is unpopular with the average anime fan though. __________________

2011-03-06, 12:52	Link #689
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	http://twitter.com/takashipom http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...8/e8b0ad62.png http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...3/a3acf691.png http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...5/35a83311.png http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/yarareyak...c/9cdb6b00.png Takashi Murakami seems baffled at his recent cameo in Fractale 07 Yamakan reassures him it's respect but seeing your animated self Spoiler: get shot is awkward as hell. Yamakan then says he apologizes if he has insulted Murakami, but if Murakami is unwilling to accept it and makes a fuss over this, that is also acceptable. (because then it becomes viral marketing?) __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell Last edited by Key Board; 2011-03-06 at 13:07.

2011-03-06, 15:16	Link #690
wandering-dreamer reads too much Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: you know that's a great question.....	Erm, what exactly are you referring to? I managed to find those tweets and plug them into google translate but I'm still confused, who exactly is Takashi Murakami and how did he appear in Fractale? Was he the sculptor guy? __________________ If it has a plot I have something to say about it! Twitter time!

2011-03-06, 18:59	Link #691
ttdestroy Hardcore meets Casual Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Age: 35	Isn't TM that controversial artist? Anyway Xanadu seems similar to a city in something else but i can't place it. __________________ They say you don't grow up You just grow old, It's safe to say I haven't done both.

2011-03-07, 00:36	Link #694
FatPianoBoy Dansa med oss Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky Age: 36	The problem is that it's keeping too much from us and being too vague. I'm more than willing to follow a trail of breadcrumbs, but with Fractale there's only a small piece of crust every few hundred feet and you have to wade through a swamp to get to them. In order to properly build suspense, you first need to grab the audience. I liked the first episode because it got my attention and piqued my curiosity. The next part of building suspense is gradually revealing things to broaden our understanding of the story in a way that makes us want to know more. Compare this show with Madoka Magica, which has basically the same appeal and has infinitely better storytelling. To use Xanadu again, as visually spectacular as it was, it was a complete waste of time. We learn nothing from that episode until the last minute when Nessa goes berserk. Nearly everything else we could have figured out based on previously revealed information. Not that introducing the city in itself was a misstep, but it wasn't sufficiently explored to justify the amount of time spent on it. Episode six, however, is a good example of how to build suspense. We're introduced to a new issue (the collapse of society in a post-Fractale area), a new perspective (Clain's father taking the initiative and contributing to society despite being an advocate of the system) and a group who are using different methods to the same ends as the Temple. This broadens our understanding of the universe and makes it more interesting. Episodes seven and especially five do not do this and are basically just a waste of time. If the appeal is primarily the setting, then they should focus on it.

2011-03-07, 01:00	Link #695
broken270 Defying gravity Join Date: Jul 2010	Spoiler: Clain is really having fun with taking pictures of everything he sees...until he walks into the laundry room and gets lectured by Enri. Sad that Nessa cannot be taken, which makes sense since she is a doppel. So, Clain and Nessa were trying to find water when all of the sudden, she gets sick. To make matters worse, their ride fell and crashed. Clain wakes up in Xanadu, the "perfect" city where anything is possible with the help of Fractale. Clain has to crossdress in order to make people think he is a doppel too. Quite sad that he wanted to touch things but was unable to. Meanwhile, Phyrne, Enri, and the bodyguard try to find Clain and Nessa. They were introduced as a place free of Fractale that wishes to be one with nature. Enri and Phryne have their small moment together, Enri wishes to know the relationship between her and Clain, but Phyrne states that they are merely friends and that she does not have the right to love someone. Back in Xanadu, Clain attempts to find Nessa and was successful at it. Those two doppels attempt to give in information on how to help a doppel that was sick. Surprise, surprise, the reason Nessa was like that was because the priest were hacking into her system to find out where she is. To make matters worse, those two doppels are related to those priest in some why and wishes to make them stay a little longer until the priests arrive. Things are going wrong on both sides, since those people form before are nothing but a bunch of millionaires and billionaires who are also related to the priest and the Fractale system. Now that I think about it, it does make sense if the reason she cannot love was because she was a rape victim. If that is true, Phryne has quite a dark past, and it may be somewhat (or not at all) related to why she wants to end the Fractale system as a whole. Enri comes in and saves the day with her immense strength to swing that large pot onto his face. Meanwhile, Clain grabs Nessa and attempts to leave the city as quickly as possible. I am glad that Clain understands that touch was actually a good thing and needed. The woman dopple appears and shoots a virus at Clain. Nessa unlocks her powers and starts to destroy the city dependent upon Fractale. Enri, Phryne, and the bodyguard leaves the place and heads to Xanadu, which is actually a ghost town stone city like it should be. I find it awful that the man dopple's true form was that of a sickly, pale man that is connected with a bunch of electronics and data possible related to Fractale. Our male protagonist gets shot and the priests are there to take Phryne and Nessa back. What is going to happen now?

2011-03-07, 05:02	Link #696
Mizuno Undefined Join Date: May 2004 Location: With the gods Age: 40	So Phyrne was sexually assaulted before...? I can't believe they'd bring such depressing stuff into this. Who's to bet it's that mofo who's on the ship now that did the deed...? 100 bullets on his face won't suffice.

2011-03-07, 19:50	Link #698
Shyne Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: new jersey	I'm just glad there hasn't been the sterotypical pathetic beach episode like most anime seem to have that more often then not just destroys the momentum it has. The series feels rushed to me. They're trying to fit too much into 11 episodes and I think that addresses the issue of development that I keep seeing. I like the story, but it is rushed. If more time and episodes were put into the series I think the quality would be higher. Still the last 5 or so minutes was really great and makes me want to watch the next episode. __________________ Feel Free to send me a message

2011-03-07, 21:14	Link #700
Mizuno Undefined Join Date: May 2004 Location: With the gods Age: 40	Well it's not a hard fact as of now, most of us are just speculating. But given the not so subtle hints that she was violated in the past in the latter part of episode 7, I think it's real. And we can tell who the bastard is already. Seriously though Yamakan, this is a surprise we can do without. Is he trolling the otaku population now?