(L) New Evangelion Project: Rebuild of Evangelion [Movies 1 & 2]

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I suppose we're drawing contrast between NGE and the AU universe gundam shows. Rebuild is to NGE, what AU gundam is to UC gundam in my eyes (The former often being worst than the latter).

True, let's just hope that Rebuild will turn out to be more than a "Seed-ified" update of the original.

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

For as innovative as it was, even MSG boils down to Amuro being some random kid who winds up in the Gundam's cockpit purely by accident/coincidence, and nothing deeper than that.

It wasn't quite that random given that Amuro's father was the chief designer of the Gundam. In the end it's a long tradition dating back to Tetsujin 28 that children take up the responsebility for mecha created by family. NGE just takes it a bit further.

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

NGE pretty heavily relies on the idea that only a small population of children can pilot Evangelions as some weird biological result of being in utero during the Second Impact, and/or the souls of their mothers being bound to specific units.

Or have angelic essences like Rei and Kaworu who can pilot any Eva without the need of a soullink. Come to think of it, given the (re)naming of Mari and Asuka to match sister ships of the Ayanami class destroyers, their ability to pilot random Eva's and the epilogue of Rebuilt 2.22, I would not be surprised if both are not quite human either.

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Bri

It wasn't quite that random given that Amuro's father was the chief designer of the Gundam.

How is that less random? If anything, it just makes it an even bigger coincidence that Amuro just so happened to stumble onto an abandoned Gundam in the middle of the colony invasion.

Originally Posted by Bri

NGE just takes it a bit further.

That's... kind of the entire point I'm getting at, and Rebuild goes out of the way to push it ten steps back.

Originally Posted by Bri

Or have angelic essences like Rei and Kaworu who can pilot any Eva without the need of a soullink. Come to think of it, given the (re)naming of Mari and Asuka to match sister ships of the Ayanami class destroyers, their ability to pilot random Eva's and the epilogue of Rebuilt 2.22, I would not be surprised if both are not quite human either.

Except this excuse makes absolutely no sense in the context of the Vatican Treaty / EVA-03 plothole.

Asuka wasn't dumped from EVA-02 because she's secretly some one-size-fits-all Eva skeleton key bionoid. She was put down by Ritsuko telling her she was an expendable asset.

In fact, Ritsuko clearly doesn't know about Eva skeleton key characters existing based on her reaction to Mari hijacking EVA-02. You can't even hypothesize she just told Asuka about how she's replaceable as a cover story.

[TurkeyPotPie]

I finally got around to watching the Funimation Blu-ray of 2.22. Having already seen the movie before, I watched the English dub. I was surprised that I actually enjoyed it quite a bit (surprised because I basically hated the dub of the TV series). It seems like some of the VAs were different (Gendo and Ritsuko?), but I'll have to check a list of actors involved. The ones I did recognize from the TV dub were much better. Maybe my tastes have changed, or maybe the actors have just gotten much more polished in their craft. Asuka's VA in particular sounded vastly better this time around.

As for the movie itself -- bleh. Not a fan, especially of the new character, Mari.

[Matt122005]

I bought my copy of Evangelion 2.22 on Blu-Ray two days ago. I'm planning on watching both Rebuild films back to back next week. Can't wait.

My expectation for Evangelion 3.0 is definitely mounting.

By the way, to hearken back to my discussion on hidden Symbolism use in the new Rebuild films on Pages 105 and 108 and how it could tie in with future films.....

I stumbled recently across a blog post about EVA 1.11 in which it pointed out that right in the beginning of the film the character's were discussing things like the Fruit of Life, etc. Things which were normally not explained for a very long time.

The blogger went further though and tried to claim that these terms were referencing things fans already knew about the Eva's and the Angels, things which would come later in the Rebuild films.

I whole-heartedly would like to present my objections and further offer some food for thought like last time that nobody else has seemingly offered.

For one thing, as many hard core, or very well studied fans will probably know, there are several things and events from the series that have yet to come or will not be included.

I will list just a few of the one's mentioned in the blog post without spoiler tag, because well, you should know them by now and we have no guarantee they'll be in the films.

1. Rei is a clone of Shinji's mother. Rei has many other clones in storage deep within Nerv.

2. EVA 1 has part of Shinji's mother's soul in it, causing it to move on its own. Asuka's Eva also has her own mother's soul in it too.

3. Supplementary material reveals that the Fruit of Life and such is regarding the fact that Adam and Lilith represent the two different life forms that lead to humans and angels. The angel's want to wipe out humanity to be the only species of the two still alive.


Now then, with that bit of knowledge out of the way, it has become apparent that some expect all of the above to show up in the next movie, or fourth.

I'm afraid I'm about to throw a bit of a monkey-wrench into that idea.

To begin....

1. I do believe that Rei will be shown to be a clone because of the scene at the end of 2.22 where Rei is inside the Angel and there are multiple tiny Rei's nearby. I also don't see Anno changing the fact that she is a clone OF Shinji's mother since he has kept her a clone.

2. I do not believe that EVA 1 has Shinji's mother in it, nor do I believe Asuka has her mother as well.

Reason for why I believe Anno threw this out for Rebuild: In both films, EVA 1 has not acted on it's own, not once. Also, unlike in the first series where the pilots were carefully chosen to pilot a specific EVA because they were practically the only one's who could control it.... this time around, as has been criticized by some fans, the EVA pilots are random and can be replaced easily. This means Shinji's has no special tie to EVA 1 other than the fact that its been the one he's used to by now piloting.

With these two reasons given, I do not believe that the idea of either Shinji or Asuka's mother being in the EVA will at all be used in the Rebuild storyline.

3. The Fruit of Life..... As with the EVA's, I believe that Anno has thrown out the idea of Adam and Lilith in the sense that they were presented in the supplementary materials.

Reasons for this: In the original series, the Angel's came to attack earth from space. SEELE, though having knowledge of the dead sea scrolls, was seemingly out of control in regard to their attacks and used their knowledge to make the attacks work for their own benefit. When watching the original and using the supplementary materials, it would seem that the Angel's are attacking in order to eliminate humanity. The Fruit of Life is thus a reference to this battle between the two seeds.

However, in Rebuild, things have been tweaked. Anno has shown us directly that the Angel's are NOT simply attacking Earth of their own free will. Rather, they were in a stasis within coffins on the moon. SEELE, operating from their new moon base, is waking them up to serve SEELE's own purpose. In this case, the Angel's are nothing but pawns.

In the original series, Lilith has a face with 7 eyes. This was to tie in with the idea that SEELE's logo of 7 eyes referred to their battle against the Angel's in regard to the Fruit of Life.

But in Rebuild, this has changed. The face of Lilith is now on the Mark 06, giving Lilith just a plain normal face. The new ramification is that the Mark 06 is the true purpose of SEELE.

With both of these changes, you can see why I don't believe Anno is sticking to the same old ideas. He's downgraded the significance of the Angel's in order to emphasize SEELE as the enemy, and downgraded Lilith in order to put more importance upon the new Mark 06.

Thus, I do believe that the Fruit of Life scenario from the series has been trashed and that whatever it represents in Rebuild will be new and different.


Now obviously these are just my thoughts and theory's, and I'll be interested to hear your own.

Since we are still waiting on 3.0, I feel like some good guesswork can be fun for us to pass the time. Also, please correct me if I misstated anything from my memory.


PS.

Several things I forgot to mention that now come to mind.

1. In regard to the EVA's NOT containing the souls of the pilots mother, I should mention that Asuka DOES say that "Even though I'm the only one who can operate it?" in regard to Unit 2. This could imply that there's a possibility of her mother's soul being in it, making it only usable to Asuka. However, this theory fly's in the face of the fact that Mari steals it and operates it on her own without a hitch and also that Asuka is told that she can easily be replaced.

2. SEELE does mention in 2.22 that it wants to resurrect Lilith. Some might consider this evidence that the Fruit of Life scenario has been kept. But again, one must consider all that Anno has done to change the significance from Lilith over to the Mark 06. Gendo even refer's to it as SEELE's attempt to create a true God.

I thought I'd list those two point just to point out that my theory's are just that.... theory's. I put them out so we could debate or discuss them.

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Matt122005

2. I do not believe that EVA 1 has Shinji's mother in it, nor do I believe Asuka has her mother as well.

...Uh, yes, Unit 01 clearly has the soul of Yui Ikari in it still. Remember what Gendo said near the end, right before Shinji showed up to pilot it again in the fight against Zeruel? "Why? Why are you refusing me, Yui?"

[Matt122005]

Bravo. I completely missed that. You're right, that definitely does provide a compelling reason to believe that at the very least, Unit 01 has Yui's soul in it. I'm still not convinced about Asuka, but I guess it's possible.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Okay, then I guess my second point becomes mute sort of.

I still don't think that the Fruit of Life scenario has been kept intact.

[Azuma Denton]

Next month's Newtype cover.
Announcing Eva 3.0?

[DragoZERO]

That eye patch is a travesty.

I still can't believe they spoiled that cliffhanger, lol.

[konart]

Newtype insides:

Spoiler:

[Reckoner]

It'll be on newsstands starting tomorrow, so we'll get some nice information hopefully (Or potentially very horrible ).

[Reckoner]

I guess I never posted the rest of this stuff that got translated, so I might as well post it... Here are interviews with Anno.

Credit for translating goes to Evageeks of course.

The response to the "Break" preview as the impetus for major changes

--- I'd like to ask you about "Break." Preproduction for "Break" - including work on the scenario and the "settei" [1] - was underway at the same time as "Prelude." That was because, I think, they were consecutive works, planned to be successively released. That plan was significantly changed. I'd like to hear how it came about that you revised the script that existed at the time of the "Prelude" premiere. Things changed just following the premiere, right?

[1] Lit. "establishment." As far as I understand it, "settei" refers to all designs, drawings, and information used to establish or flesh out the world of the animation and its characters, and to inform and direct the process of animation itself.

Anno: Right. It was from that point that the big changes were made.

--- If I was to make a conjecture on the basis of the various [CRC] interviews, during work on "Prelude" there was a version of the script that did not yet include the most interesting parts.[*] (Shinji) Higuchi-san said that he had drawn storyboards based upon the script at that time.

Anno: Certainly, a script had been written by March 2007, at the same time "Prelude" was being made. The eleventh draft became the final version of that script. Work on the storyboards was also taking place during "Prelude" from that earlier version of the script. From the point of view of quantity, I think the first drafts were already completed for about two thirds of the whole. That's because we had planned to begin work on "Break" without any pause or interruption once "Prelude" was finished. However, I couldn't live up to it. After the premiere [of "Prelude"], I decided to look again at the content of the second part, starting from zero.

--- Was the highly favorable reaction of the viewers at the premiere a significant reason for that?

Anno: Yeah. It started after I heard the reaction to the preview at the Milano theater in Shinjuku. ["Prelude"] was a theatrical film, but because I wanted the format to be the same as the TV series, I intended from the beginning to insert a "preview" [at the end]. The same music would be used. I thought, as "service," it would please the viewers of the original work. However, I didn't expect that big a reaction. Originally, I thought, because there would be a "gap" until the second part, attaching a preview at the end would increase the viewers' anticipation. I also expected that, among the viewers, there would be some for whom this [preview] would be "peak" of the film. However, this was more than I imagined. In particular, the reaction to the new character was bigger than I expected.

--- At the theater I went to, [the crowd] was extremely charged up, even at the very end.

Anno: Right. I didn't expect that much. The staff who went to see [the film] were also deeply impressed and excited [by the reaction].

In the first version of the plot I thought of, the new character would have a very active role from the third part on. I didn't think the chracter would do any more than make an appearance in the second part. Although, because she appeared in the original series, she doesn't seem much like a new character, Asuka was also a highly important "new character" who, in the Rebuild films, would appear from the second part on. Because I would surely place emphasis upon [?] Asuka, I didn't intend to seriously deal with a new character in the second part. However, there was so much anticipation for the new character among the viewers that I felt I had to respond to that. So, I decided to increase the number of the new character's appearances. It was at that point that I first began the work of reviewing the second part. The strength of the response to the preview, the intensity of the viewers, significantly changed the way I looked at "Break." It moved my heart, and the "rudder" of the work began to significantly shift.

--- How did the actual work [process] change?

Anno: There was the content of the film, the script, but I began by looking at how I was making the films.

During the making of the first part, "Prelude," I feel like I was half-fixated [?] on reenacting the TV series. Because we had lacked money, workers, and time, I wanted to recreate the old material. I was so fixated on the idea of reenaction that I was making [the film] without deviating from the timing of the [original] timesheets. Half-way through I realized that it was okay to alter the timesheets. Although it might seem strange, despite [the film being] a kind of "new, digital satsuei [2] work," I was overly hung up on the initial phrase, "film remake." During the initial screening of "Prelude," I felt that, if I had gone this far in updating all the images, I could have deviated a bit more from the [original] storyboards. [?] The original conception was that the films would start out from the same place as the TV series, but I felt I was too fixated upon that place. So, from the second part onwards, I intended to abandon those elements "fixated" on the original series and proceed with the feeling that I was making an entirely new work. I would set out from "ground zero."

[2] Lit. "photography" - process of convering cels to film. I believe CG and so on is added at this time.

To begin with, I naturally thought I would correct my mistake by altering the script. The scripted plot, at that stage, was still developing in accordance with the original work, and with a view to utilizing the genga [3] of the original work, so from that point I decided to make changes. I returned the plot and the outline to their initial state and rexamined things from the beginning. In order to examine the drama and the course of the plot as a whole, and to establish the new character, Mari, I held a retreat. This mainly involved scrutinizing the outline with the directoral camp and (Yoji) Enokido-san, who was participating once again [owing to Tsurumaki's suggestion ?]. It was only men; we shut ourselves up in Atami for three days and two nights. At that point new ideas and drastic amendments to the plot were proposed - for example, Masayuki's suggestion that, following the main title, the film begin with the graveyard visit, or Enokido-san's suggestion of a Shinji-Mari "Love Love" pairing. From that point, a full-scale revision had seriously begun.

[3] Lit. "original images" or "primary images" - key animation cels (I believe).

--- No changes were made to Mari's appearance in the pre-title sequence itself?

Anno: Right. Mari and the provisional Unit-05, the third angel, and so on - the idea of beginning with this character and this mecha that we've never seen before, and this new setting, "Bethany Base," outside of Hakone - this remained unchanged from the first draft outline. The plan of the battle, Mari's dialogue and personality - these sort of things changed, but the course itself, the general course of the story of the pre-title seqeunce, didn't change. I wanted it to impact both viewers of the original series and people for whom "Break" was their first time seeing Eva. I thought that, although people familiar with the original series would be overwhelmed with unfamilar things [?], because of Kaji, there was a common denominator which could enable them to feel secure for the moment. Starting with English and Russian dialogue with Japanese subtitles was the same. First of all, I wanted to begin the film with the impression of things being different than they have been up until now.

--- The provisional Unit-05 was not a familiar EVA with a "bipedal" form.

Anno: Right. I wanted to introduce an unfamiliar Eva with a form you could immediately identify as different. I also wanted, for the pre-title sequence, to try to create fully CG images, including the angel and the Eva. A fully CG battle was itself, within Eva, an unfamiliar image, [so I wanted to use it] for the pre-title sequence. I also had an "experimental" intention. To what extent was a fully CG Eva battle possible? I thought it would be good if we could test technical things out or experiment with how things are set up within the work. The form and details were complex, with the four legs, and so on. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to draw by hand; the design is considerably difficult to draw. It was a battle scene where the movement and so on couldn't be efficiently drawn if we didn't use CG, so I wanted to take this opportunity to experiment with it. We had also put together a complex design for the angel intended to be rendered in CG. The background animation was also something where its creation was directed with an eye to CG. [?] I figured, in addition, that the pre-title sequence was the beginning of the work, so there was plenty of time left on the production schedule. Even if there were various difficulties with a full CG battle scene, I figured that we had plenty of time to investigate the difficulties using animatics [4] and so on.

[4] I'm not very familiar with the term; see NAveryW's reply below.

However, in the end, for various reasons, we ran out of time. There were cuts that worked well in the animatics, but, to sum things up, they didn't really go as planned, which was a bit unfortunate. [?] Among other things, we added in hand-drawn effects, and introduced CG explosions. Including the satsuei treatment, we continued experimenting with various things until we almost ran out of time. As an on-screen image, I think the final result paid off. However...

--- CG was used in "Prelude," but here there is more action, and things have much progressed.

Anno: Yeah. With people who can draw the Eva genga really well being limited, if I wanted to maintain or increase the quality - I thought from the outset that I wanted to replace, as much as possible, elements like walking and running movements, which would originally just get repeated [?], with CG. The angels, as well - since I conceived of the plot I intended to make all the angels mostly CG, excluding Unit-03 (the ninth angel) and the final tenth angel - the opposite of the pattern from "Prelude." There, we began with hand-drawn angels, and ended with full CG. I considered the total amount of work to be done and its allocation between hand-drawn and CG parts, and the script reflects that consideration. [?] I always take production-related risks into account, so the number or amount of battle scenes are decided in advance, before starting the script or the script outline.

Part 2

A script bogged down in revisions upon revisions

--- It seems that during the scriptwriting process an enormous number of serious revisions accumulated.

Anno: Yeah. Counting both large and small revisions, there was a total of more than forty revisions of the script. The first major changes took place from November 2006 to the start of December, while we were still working on "Prelude."

--- What sort of changes were those?

Anno: Asuka became the test pilot for Unit-03. Up until that point Touji had been the test subject, just as in the TV series. The only difference was that Shinji knew that in advance. Up to that point, the script as a whole was filled with various "nuances" reminding of, or "tastes" of, the original series: an "adult" depiction of Kaji and Misato, Asuka's discord with her mother, Asuka's idolization of Kaji and her immediate friendship with Hikari, and so on. In addition, the climax around this time was a kind of synthesis between episodes 19 and 23 of the TV series, where Shinji would be persuaded by Kaji to launch in Unit-01 and Rei would sacrifice herself in order to save Shinji; faced with this grief, Shinji's heart would be unable to bear it, and Unit-01 would go out of control. The drafts up to number five were written according to this plan. [The first draft storyboards up to part C that were requested before the premiere of "Prelude" were generally based upon the drafts of the script written up to this point. ???]

--- What was the impetus for the change?

Anno: The big thing was the comments made by Makki (Director Kazuya Tsurumaki's pet name). "For this, we can't make films just by summarizing the TV series." He also said, "I want Asuka to have a 'film-like' role. At this rate, she will just be making an appearance - she provides no drama vis-a-vis Shinji, the protagonist; she is not involved." Furthermore, "As a story, it's not different enough from the original series" - all these in succession. He further said, "Isn't a change as drastic as having Asuka pilot Unit-03 necessary?" I think, because this was a major, fundamental change, opinion was divided when I researched the views of a number of staff members. (Ikki) Todoroki, in particular, was tremendously opposed. After thinking about it, I ultimately adopted Tsurumaki's proposal and decided to change the pilot of Unit-03. That was the sixth draft of the script. It was finished following the 2007 new year, on January 8th. In this draft, the test pilot was simply changed from Touji to Asuka, [and the reason for it - Mari, the new pilot, is reassigned to NERV HQ from Europe, and Asuka will be taken off of Unit-02, so she volunteers - was really just improvised. ?] The change of test pilot was forced into the draft, with the characters and situations left unaltered.

So, naturally, I received, and agreed with, a proposal memo sent out by Tsurumaki, which said, "We have to provide Shinji, as well as the audience, with the same degree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV series. For that reason, by boldly portraying Asuka as a 'good character', I hope to greatly convey that sense of loss." Because of that, I wanted to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 in order to do something for Rei, and Shinji, and others - something for other people. As Tsurumaki put it, it's like a "death flag" is raised. As a result, Asuka piloting Unit-03 ended up being made into the "peak" of her drama. I changed various parts of the script in accordance with this. For example, Asuka's impetus for piloting Unit-03 would connect with the story of Rei [learning to cook and?] preparing a dinner party for Shinji and Gendou. It seemed like these things, as well as Asuka's character, dialogue, and so on, had gradually become solidifed.

Aside from Mari, the course of the story and drama up to Part C was roughly the same in the eleventh draft of the script, dated March 11, 2007, as it would be in the film. However, Part D still followed the course of the original series. Up to the eleventh draft, the plan for what would be done with Unit-02 during the battle with the tenth angel - for example - had continually changed. I went from a proposal from Tsurumaki which suggested that, "as it puts pressure on production, it would be better if Unit-02 did not appear [during that scene]", to "Mari will pilot Unit-02," and at one point I even settled on a plan where "an unconscious Asuka will pilot Unit-02 using the dummy system." The eleventh draft [?] was written along those lines. The development following the defeat of Unit-02 and Unit-00 just followed the course of the original series, where Rei, who is consumed by or united with the angel, tries to take in Unit-01, and, when she notices what she is doing, self-destructs. At this point, I tremporarily stopped working on the script. That was because work on "Prelude" was facing a great crisis, and I had to focus upon it. If I'm not mistaken, at one point I requested image boards and storyboards of the last battle based upon this draft from Shin-chan (Shinji Higuchi's pet name).

--- When was the suspended work on the "Break" script resumed?

Anno: I was in a daze for a little while following the first "Prelude" screening. From there I once again uncovered various issues, large and small. Gathering [the various opinions expressed at ?] the script retreat held at the end of October, as well as my own thoughts, I revised a large portion of the script, producing what you might call a new version. This twelfth draft was completed on December 6, 2007. At this point, there was a development where, during the fight with the falling angel, Mari and Asuka are present in the [Unit-02] entry plug together. Then I wrote the entire script anew, rewriting it with the feeling that it was an all-new work. Because of that, the parts of the script predicated upon the appropriation of materials [genga etc.] from the original series were largely eliminated.

In addition, one more new, significant change emerged at this time. Abandoning the scenario where Rei self-destructs in the last scene to save Shinji, I decided on a course where Shinji saves Rei. This was due to (Toshimichi) Otsuki's opinion as a producer that, because [the story of the second part would also lead to the third part ?], he wanted it to end hopefully, with a positive feeling. Regarding this, opinions among the staff were again divided. This time, it was Tsurumaki who particularily opposed, or resisted, this change. Makki said that he wanted to prominently feature Rei III, who was barely present in the old work, in the third part [of Rebuild], developing her in depth. It seemed like this had been one of his motivations for participating [in Rebuild]. However, in the end I decided on the scenario where Rei is saved, and he assented, saying "If it's all right with Anno-san....". I think I decided that way because, with "Break," I was searching for something called "change." As well, I thought this would lead to the next change. At this point I could generally see what the roles of Asuka, Rei, and Misato would be. The problem was Mari.

[Archon_Wing]

Oh my, no wonder I had so much trouble with the plot and characters

In the first version of the plot I thought of, the new character would have a very active role from the third part on. I didn't think the chracter would do any more than make an appearance in the second part.

Wait, what's changed? lol. Aside from taking up screentime, Mari has yet to show she's of any importance besides a fanfic insert. I understand one can save the rest for later, but her role in the film consistently translates to "who the fuck are you?"

I really cannot accept "we're not done yet" as an excuse. Later often translates to never.

"For this, we can't make films just by summarizing the TV series." He also said, "I want Asuka to have a 'film-like' role. At this rate, she will just be making an appearance - she provides no drama vis-a-vis Shinji, the protagonist; she is not involved."

Film-like role by having a major character without drama and interaction without other major characters? What? I don't really see how making a character boring would really help that, that to me just says "hey, it's a film, we don't need storytelling and just pretty effects". Well, it's still better than Unlimited Blade Works. But still...

Yes, the movie format limits things, but plenty of movies can establish character in short time frames. I don't think I'm insulting when I say I expected more from them.

But this problem leads to...

So, naturally, I received, and agreed with, a proposal memo sent out by Tsurumaki, which said, "We have to provide Shinji, as well as the audience, with the same degree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV series. For that reason, by boldly portraying Asuka as a 'good character', I hope to greatly convey that sense of loss."

And because of this, I can't have sympathy for a half baked character. It just becomes contrived! You cannot enhance a flat character through drama like this, especially in a series named Evangelion. It's like "why does Shinji care that much about Asuka". He doesn't really know her; is he vaguely in love with her? She's just some girl that randomly beats him up and they sometimes fight together. Sure, feeling bad is natural, but it has nary to impact of Touji, who may have had a rough start with Shinji, but is someone close to him.

Rebuild Asuka has the interest to me as a factory manufactured JC Staff tsundere. Though much hotter.

The character does not work. Same goes with Mari. And nor does anything that follow it.

Abandoning the scenario where Rei self-destructs in the last scene to save Shinji, I decided on a course where Shinji saves Rei. This was due to (Toshimichi) Otsuki's opinion as a producer that, because [the story of the second part would also lead to the third part ?], he wanted it to end hopefully, with a positive feeling.

Well, that's a bit more forgivable. But this conclusion is soured through the development to it. Maybe Kawrou really needed to come in sooner.

Yes. I understand that there's more movies to go. But that doesn't change the fact that 2.0 lacks certain attributes in basic storytelling and character development. No matter how you slice it, the storyline is just not that good, even as a standalone film. And for something that's hyped up SO BADLY, I find it unacceptable. It becomes interesting when you make allusions to the tv series, but.... I thought this movie was to be more accessible and less opaque, bringing in new fans.

Pretty effects and Shinji lagaan could bring in many new fans but is that really what Evangelion is about? It just feels like fluff. Mind you all, this film was still decent entertainment, but is that all it's aiming to be?

I really hope 3 and 4 are 2 full length movies. Otherwise it'd be 2/3rds done, and that doesn't sit well with me.

[Dante80]

1. I do believe that Rei will be shown to be a clone because of the scene at the end of 2.22 where Rei is inside the Angel and there are multiple tiny Rei's nearby. I also don't see Anno changing the fact that she is a clone OF Shinji's mother since he has kept her a clone.

You are correct. This is hinted as well as shown many times over in 2.22. For example, in the preview of 3.0 at the end, in the scene in 2.22 before having dinner with Gendou (we see there that she is indeed Rei 02 too), etc etc. I can think of 6-7 hints in the last movie easily...

2. I do not believe that EVA 1 has Shinji's mother in it, nor do I believe Asuka has her mother as well.

Eva 01 is hinted to have a part of Yuis soul in it at least twice in the films. At this point, there are no hints for Asuka (other what you have already said. I think that this has something to do too with her surname change.

It's like "why does Shinji care that much about Asuka". He doesn't really know her; is he vaguely in love with her? She's just some girl that randomly beats him up and they sometimes fight together. Sure, feeling bad is natural, but it has nary to impact of Touji, who may have had a rough start with Shinji, but is someone close to him.

We could start up a discussion about Genetic Sexual Attraction, the connections between the Children and how they affect a priori their relationships and communication, the differences between the series rei02 and the movies rei02, the way Gendou is actively trying to get Shinji and Rei closer so as to promote his plan, the importance of the cassette recorder for both children, etc.

In the end though, its still early too really assess that. Anno is definitely going somewhere with this theme, and I'm interested to see exactly where. Especially considering Shinji who seems to have grown/deteriorated much faster now than before. I don't think this is just an idea to make the films more mainstream though, let alone transform NGE to a shoujo romance drama. Actually, if you put in the variables I think you will find that it makes (or can make) the plot even more complex than the series ever was in that department. I may be overanalyzing of course but hey, we are talking about evangelion after all...XD

In a sense, seeing how the plot has sped up in the second film, I honestly expect absolute terror for much of the remainder of the new installments. And I'll be happy to rage/chew on that for a while, as I did when I saw the original for the first time. Lets see...

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Dante80

Eva 01 is hinted to have a part of Yuis soul in it at least twice in the films. At this point, there are no hints for Asuka (other what you have already said. I think that this has something to do too with her surname change.

Asuka's shouldn't have it if the original series is anything to go off of. I say this because Mari managed to pilot it and she wouldn't really be able to if her mother's soul was in her eva.

[Dante80]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Asuka's shouldn't have it if the original series is anything to go off of. I say this because Mari managed to pilot it and she wouldn't really be able to if her mother's soul was in her eva.

Yes, and also due to the fact that Rei was supposed to enter 02 before Asuka volunteers for it. Rei was always a viable option for 01 (due to her alleged genetic connection/compatibility to Yui), but using her as an option for 02 may signify that there is no soul inside it (its the first production model anyway). Moreover, that could be a reason for Gendo wanting to seal 02 instead of 00 in accordance with the Vatican Treaty.

I'm still not entirely convinced though.

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by konart

Newtype insides:

Spoiler:

Gotta say ruining a perfectly intact plugsuit by grafting latex bandages to it is the dumbest thing.

I could honestly understand if they were going for a Metroid Fusion-esque Frankenplugsuit and explained that the Bardiel parasite caused parts of the test plugsuit to organically fuse to her. But, uh, the redesign is clearly not based on the test plugsuit. That's her regular one kitbashed with medical tape for no reason.

I mean, if she's hideously scarred underneath and needs to be taped up, why isn't she wearing the gauze UNDERNEATH the plugsuit? And if her injuries are so minor that she can wear plugsuit material fashioned as bandages directly on top of them, why does the material in those areas need to be fashioned as bandages? It's a completely aesthetic change.

But Rebuild is the epitome of changing things for the sake of changing things (justification be damned), so eh.

[Used Can]

So, we still don't have a tentative release date for 3.0?
Damn it!

[brocko]

Axe of longinus aside, it seems like Asuka will somehow suffer plugsuit damage in this next movie, hence all the taping and what not. It couldn't have happened in 2.0 since she was wearing the test suit while in unit 03.
Aye me thinks t' eye-patch suggests t' torn, battle damaged plugsuit be from her journeys in t' red, crimson Dead Seas, yo ho ho

Then again like Hagoshod mentioned:

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

... Rebuild is the epitome of changing things for the sake of changing things (justification be damned), so eh.

That and it's only a promo image for what seems like a film with no real outline as of yet...

EDIT: Had another quick look at the preview of the next movie at the end of 2.0 again and I'm getting some post-apocalyptic vibes from it.

[Archon_Wing]

Pirate Asuka.

Either the most awesome or retarded thing ever.

I'm kinda worried.

[Dorsai]

I heard about sth like ReixShinji official couple and destroying Asuka character, wtf? It disgusting that Oedipus complex is still that popular, did Hideaki sell yourself?

Maybe it will be good to just pretent that Rebuild never exist? Good that i still postpone watching it...