2011-07-01, 08:01 | Link #3201 | |||||
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Anyhow, I still don't think it's inane... but yeah, inane is nowhere near harsh as insane. Man, I'm so embarrassed, haha. (o^,^o) Thank you, Internet. I'm anonymous. Quote:
If chapter 8 explains what happened to him and why he suddenly changed and the explanation is good enough (sorry, it still depends on whether it's good enough for me or not), then I can and will no longer criticise Sumizawa on this. Quote:
Anyway. I'm a girl. Here's an honest question for you as well, what did you think I was based on my posts regarding Relena and her present behaviour? By "now", you're referring to the example IkuzeMinna said, correct? So the part where Relena goes teary-eyes when Heero survives. Well, IkuzeMinna just answered that, I think. The situation in Endless Waltz supersedes that instance because, well, obviously EW occurs after that. And her situation in EW is more similar to her situation now than Ikuze's example. In addition to the situation in EW: the epilogue. Like I said in my previous post, Relena wasn't shown thinking about Heero then and... well, I'll end up repeating myself and that's kinda lame so I won't. Bottom line, I'm going to have to stand my ground on this one. I strongly believe that the Relena I knew in the series wouldn't cry over something like this. I'm NOT trying to convince other people here that they should question this, too. I'm just saying that I still disagree. But, again, I don't know if something happened between her and Heero between the end of EW and beginning of FT. Which when revealed (if it will ever be revealed, that is), could justify her current behaviour [to me]. I'm NOT saying that it actually needs to be justified. Because it's obvious that a lot of fans don't think it needs to be justified because they can totally see Relena getting all sentimental where Heero is concerned. So her reaction in this chapter doesn't really surprise them. But I guess, unfortunately for me, I'm different--I just saw her differently. That would be the best explanation for this lol. Quote:
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Let me clarify. I didn't mean you or Elo the Blue or anyone else specifically. I know it sounded that way, so I can't blame you for getting miffed. Here, let me elaborate. I didn't mean to say that there are only two types of fans. The one who sees the characters as stereotypes, and the one who doesn't. I'm sure there are more "types" other than those. So when I put myself under that "category" (the one that doesn't see the characters as stereotypes), doesn't automatically mean I'm putting you under the only other type there is. Just because we (yes, you and I) don't see them as stereotypes, doesn't necessarily mean that the way we see them is the same. So no, I didn't mean to accuse those who disagree with me as fans who see the characters as stereotypes. I only said that: "You can't blame the fans who 'notice' these, blah blah", so that the fans who will disagree with me, which I know would be a lot, will see that it's not ridiculous if they try to consider my claims because they're based on my understanding of the canon, anyway. If my defense still doesn't make sense, do tell. I'll try again. EDIT: I referenced Hiei and Kuwabara only because imo Goku and Vegeta don't fit the bill. I don't remember those two bickering. Goku's the ditzy sweetheart type and I thought he was always ignorant and lenient (more of the former, maybe) towards Vegeta or anyone else's rude remarks. But I only saw DBZ once and it's been ages so I could be wrong ehehe. Last edited by Leave The Pieces; 2011-07-01 at 20:09. Reason: Missed something. |
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2011-07-01, 08:20 | Link #3202 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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A girl But that's based more on your past posts than this one in particular, but I'm curious what the split is overall! Quote:
Fair enough ^^ |
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2011-07-01, 08:35 | Link #3203 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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My OMG's would give me away but the absence of Relena-hate in my posts make some people think I'm a guy! Lol. There were times when I discussed Relena with girls, I thought they were guys just because they don't seem to hate her. Until they told me. Not to say that guys don't hate Relena. Sadly, there are also a lot of them that do. But meh, who needs 'em. Chicks outnumber them, though! Quote:
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2011-07-01, 16:11 | Link #3204 | ||
Shall we?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
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Besides, my knee jerk reaction stems from women generally reducing themselves to lovesick puppies or accessories whenever their love interest is around, something that happens a lot and has happened in GW, too. It's one of the few things I dislike about the series. So yeah, for me it's not specifically Relena. I don't know about the others. Quote:
Someone's gotta remain shrouded in mystery. *looks at Heero* Right? jk If my posts didn't give me away yet, perhaps we should talk about shipping. Maybe that will make it obvious. xD (see what I'm saying with prejudice?) Last edited by IkuzeMinna; 2011-07-02 at 14:44. Reason: missed a letter |
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2011-07-01, 18:40 | Link #3205 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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well i'm as confused as before finding out about their meeting
but considering i was envisioning relena as a brainwashed psycopath i am mostly happy with this chapter anyway with the next gundam anime involving aliens who knows what sensible in gundam anymore |
2011-07-01, 18:48 | Link #3206 | |
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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Again, I go back to the possibility that Sally PO died and it had profound effect on him. We've seen the deaths of people greatly affect him in the series and mangas before. As for Duo, I read an essay on him once that made a compelling argument on how he masked his sorrow with smiles for much of the series and EW. He was 15, so of course there would be moments where he cracked but he'd quickly return to his defense mechanism of smiling through everything. As an adult, it didn't need to be one event that caused him to break down. Maturity and self-reflection could cause him to crumble. Like Wufei, he probably changed. Honestly, to have expected them to remain stagnant is a little naive. The same applies to Catherine.
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Last edited by Elo the Blue; 2011-07-01 at 20:28. |
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2011-07-01, 19:29 | Link #3207 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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As for me being a little naive. Well, that remark there somewhat annoys me because to me that sounds like you're judging ME and you're saying that the way I saw these particular characters and envisioned their growth post the animated materials is wrong and that I should change it. You didn't see me say, "Yes, this surprises me. I think YOU not getting surprised is weird." Anyway: @IkuzeMinna I know you said it's just an opinion, but let me say mine! ^_^ Spoiler for Lengthy response to IkuzeMinna's post:
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2011-07-01, 20:15 | Link #3208 | |
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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To your second point, I never expressed those sentiments and "naive" doesn't imply them either. To expect the characters to act like they were as 15-year olds and interact with each other at that level is naive in my opinion. I expressed reasons why I feel this way. You can feel differently but that's what healthy debate is for. I'll reiterate again, without knowing all what the characters have been through, should it really be a shock they act differently after 20 years? EDIT: I've reread Ikuze's post and truth to be told, I stand by my point even more. I can understand fans being disappointed by how the characters have progressed(or regressed depending on your stance). To me though, taking everything we know about the characters into account(specifically Duo, Wufei and Heero), what Sumisawa has done with them wasn't hard to picture.
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Last edited by Elo the Blue; 2011-07-01 at 20:57. |
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2011-07-01, 21:01 | Link #3209 | ||||
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Well, that's your opinion and I respect that. The only thing I needed to hear is that you CAN understand my disappointment despite having a different view on things. Quote:
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So going back to you and your saying of the word, naive. I'm with you, a fan who expects them to still behave as if they're still their past fifteen-year-old selves IS naive. But I don't think it's fair that you should assume that I AM that fan. Because if that's not what you meant by that, then I don't know what is. Quote:
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2011-07-01, 21:21 | Link #3210 | |
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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With that said, let me ask, what should Sumisawa have done to make you think they developed for the better? Better yet, what did you want to see?
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2011-07-01, 21:27 | Link #3211 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Truth be told, I don't know what I think he should've done specifically to make them "better" (again, this is subjective, the "better" here is based on my standards). All I know is, for me, it sure isn't how the characters are in FT. EDIT: "Better yet, what did you want to see?" Sorry, did you just put this in? I don't think it was there when I answered. To answer this: Well, what I'd like to see is... the plot. I'd like to know what it really is already. I don't really know if this will properly explain what I want but, FT, to me, is more parallel to Gundam SEED than Gundam Wing in terms of the medium it uses to deliver the story. I think this thread right here is the one where I read this from (not word for word but something like this): When one gets asked to tell the story of GS, this is how he/she would likely to open it: "It's a story about Kira Yamato, a boy who's living a peaceful life in a neutral colony until he gets caught in the middle of the war between two different races of humanbeings all the while being burdenened with the reality that requires him to fight his childhood friend, Athrun Zala... blah blah blah." But when one gets asked to tell the story of GW, THIS is how he/she would likely to open it: "Technology has evolved and space colonies have been built, blah. But an entity on earth gains great military powers and with this, it seizes the colonies and rules them with an iron fist. Five hot young men (lol sorry, XD) namely Heero, Duo, Trowa, Quatre and Wu Fei are the colonies' only hope to end this tyranny... blah blah blah." Can anyone else see the difference there? Please don't be sarcastic. Obviously, the lines have NOTHING in common. So anyway, I always thought that Wing, its plot is the one that "controlled" the characters to deliver the story. Whereas SEED, its characters controlled its plot to deliver the story. Both techniques are good. And no one can say that one is better than the other. This is purely subjective. So anyway, because FT is GW, I'd like to see it focusing more on the plot than showing the characters being angsty. I think that's what I want to say lol. But FT is doing the latter, imo. Whether that's good or bad, I don't have the right to say. It's just a matter of preference. Again, everything that I said is just my opinion regarding this novel and how its written. If I was too forward, or if I seemed bias or judgmental, I do apologise. But please keep in mind that you asked and I simply answered truthfully and that my answers are simply based on what I want, and it's based on what I want because, well, you did ask. Lol Last edited by Leave The Pieces; 2011-07-01 at 22:07. |
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2011-07-01, 21:32 | Link #3212 | |
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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At the very least, as it relates to fans as a whole, FT is generating more legitimate and fun GW discussion than seemingly the past few years combined.
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2011-07-02, 08:00 | Link #3215 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Questions~
Hi! I'm new to the forum. I just recently found out about FT and GotD, and man, as a long-time fan, I was really ecstatic to know that they're expanding on the story.
Enough 'bout me, though. I hate to break the currently on-going discussion, but there are a few things I would like to ask. I'm having trouble finding sources for the chapters (as well as following a hundred and fifty-something pages of discussion) so I thought I'd ask... 1. How many chapters have been released for FT and GotD? 2. What is the story in FT so far? ;A; 3. Has any further information been released about Zechs, Noin and their family? All I know right now is that Zechs is with Naina in Mars, while Noin is with Milou... but where? I really hope that they reveal Noin's background soon, too. :3 |
2011-07-02, 09:31 | Link #3216 | |||
Shall we?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
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@Leave The Pieces: Seeing as I possibly confused you, I think I should elaborate on my use of words. I'm pretty sure we mean the same thing though.
First of all, let's clarify what realism is. The definition of 'realism', according to the Free Online Dictionary, is as follows: Quote:
So when I say that "Gundam Wing lacks any sense of realism, but does not lack logic", I basically mean that while pretty much nothing in it can happen in real life, it still makes sense. What do I mean by that? Easy. For example, I cannot see a real 15-year-old boy being a trained assassin, pilot, computer hacker, master swordsman, horseman, dancer, explosives expert and whatever else Heero is that I can't think of right now. But should such a person exist (theoretically), it would make sense that he could do all the things Heero did (namely successfully fighting a war by himself). And I believe this extends to all the aspects of the show. Even the actions taken by the characters you call realistic, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with. They're logical, not realistic. To take your example, what would a normal person have done in Relena's position? Probably abandoned everything and gtfo of there. But Relena did not only not back down, she clung to an ideal that was pure suicide in the universe she lived in and somehow managed to gain control of her enemies by doing that. With just words. If you consider the concept of GW, it didn't seem far-fetched, or to put it more bluntly, it made sense that she could and would do that. Because everyone in the friggin' show is superhuman/badass. xD But if it were to be realistic, by all means, she should've crumbled by the whole pressure. After all, she's only a teenager without full education. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Gundam Wing is ideological, based heavily on politics and told from the angle of extraordinary people. It makes sense that it doesn't focus on its characters' struggles through the war, as other Gundam series do, because the characters' primal role in Wing is not supposed to represent real people but ideals in a war. (I'm not sure if this is the right word, but what I mean is this: Wu Fei-Honor, Relena-Purity, Quatre-Kindness, etc) This is further proven, I believe, by the fact that the characters don't act their age. They aren't hormonal or whatever. Heck, most people thought Sally was 30 by the way she behaves (myself included). But yeah, that's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. Quote:
All I say is that there are other outcomes I would've preferred (something that is directly linked with my wish for GW to continue to be 'atypical', as I called it). That's the reason I cite all the scenes from the series. To prove that there is room for interpretation, not to harp on stagnation. To be more clear about it, while there was nothing in the series to make me believe that Duo and Wu Fei would become bosom buddies, there was also nothing to make me believe otherwise. Quote:
And have Duo become a real priest, not a bounty hunting gold digger with bratty kids. >_> As for the others... I think I spoiled enough of my story in the works already. Except for Quatre. I don't know what's up with him but you'd think a responsibility freak like him would make sure the Winner family would have an heir to its legacy. He needs a son. Where is he? Quatrine has boobs, so she doesn't count. No omitting his family's chauvinism, please. Last edited by IkuzeMinna; 2011-07-02 at 14:11. Reason: wording and butchering the English language |
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2011-07-02, 13:08 | Link #3217 | ||
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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2011-07-02, 14:41 | Link #3218 | ||
Shall we?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
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2. Well, the MC-022 story is that Heero was thawed and ordered to kill Relena, Quatrine stole the incomplete suit Prometheus, Heero and Duo Jr. set out to catch her (and Trowa Phobos, too?), they all met in a desert where Snow White and Warlock battled Quatrine's MD Maganacs, Quatrine kissed Trowa P. somewhere in that chapter, Mille and Naina arrived to pick up Quatrine and Prometheus, they all escaped Heero and Duo Jr. somehow and on their (1+2) way back they learned that Wu Fei was fighting enemy suits, namely Epyon and three Virgo IVs. I think Zechs showed up too (?) and to make it a full-blown party Relena somehow ended up in the picture as well. Yeah... Sorry, that's all I could get from that convoluted mess. If I got anything wrong folks, correct me please. 3. Sorry, no idea. Has Noin been mentioned in the present? |
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2011-07-02, 22:46 | Link #3220 | ||||
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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@IkuzeMinna
I'll PM you my response to this seeing as it's only the two of us talking about Gundam Wing and realism. Especially cuz my response is quite lengthy. Quote:
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One thing, though: Quote:
Even if she isn't, she still took him in and it's highly likely he got attached to her. If it wasn't her death that makes him behave like this, maybe it's because no one really knows where he came from? Wasn't he just found by Hilde somewhere? Lord knows what the place he was from is like. It's also that possibility that it was his past environment that influenced his behaviour. Also, I believe I came up with these theories because I saw some hints. Or maybe I was just seeing things...? Cuz Father Maxwell does apologise to Po's daughter (I'll call her Po's daughter cuz I'm not that bright, I get confused with all these Katherine's) about Duo Jr.'s manners and explain that the kid lost his 'mother' and he had to raise the boy by himself. But yeah, fingers crossed it's one of these theories. Otherwise, I'll go back to criticising Sumizawa and his stereotype-writing. |
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frozen teardrop, glory of the losers, gundam wing |
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