Nanoha FanFiction Discussion

[00-Raiser]

Obviously you have to have your OC villain pose a threat so it's okay if they're stronger than canon characters. Which canon character is the sticky point. If you have them noted for being more powerful then Reinforce, people'll call bullshit on that.

Other justification helps, too. So far Volvo's kicked the crap out of Nanoha twice, but that's because she's out of shape and with each battle she's faired better against him.

[Shigan]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

RB's style leaves you with a bittersweet ending. DC's style leaves you pulling a knife out of your side. =X

Can you imagine the destruction if we let those two in charge of this HxV thing? xD

... I suppose I'll act as the counterweight, to balance things in this universe. After all, I'm clinically unable to feel down and write sad things .

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Shigan

Can you imagine the destruction if we let those two in charge of this HxV thing? xD

... I suppose I'll act as the counterweight, to balance things in this universe. After all, I'm clinically unable to feel down and write sad things .

Hey, we write the Logs together and it's been pretty light so far.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Shigan

Can you imagine the destruction if we let those two in charge of this HxV thing? xD

... I suppose I'll act as the counterweight, to balance things in this universe. After all, I'm clinically unable to feel down and write sad things .

I thought dc was already in charge of the HxV thing. :V

[NTFTH]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Obviously you have to have your OC villain pose a threat so it's okay if they're stronger than canon characters. Which canon character is the sticky point. If you have them noted for being more powerful then Reinforce, people'll call bullshit on that.

The OC isn't a villain, has some slightly obnoxious habits but isn't a villain.

I was going to imply that the OC is about as good as Signum is when it comes to swordsmanship and has a device that can switch between being a double-bladed sword or two regular swords which isn't anything new since Fate does the same thing more or less with Bardiche in Force . But is slower then Signum, and has nearly no skill at ranged combat.

[Shigan]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Hey, we write the Logs together and it's been pretty light so far.

Logs?

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I thought dc was already in charge of the HxV thing. :V

My dear, one need to see the timeline document to make a proper comment on this. I don't think me and dc are getting out of each other's hair anytime soon xD.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by NTFTH

I was going to imply that the OC is about as good as Signum is when it comes to swordsmanship and has a device that can switch between being a double-bladed sword or two regular swordswhich isn't anything new since Fate does the same thing more or less with Bardiche in Force . But is slower then Signum, and has nearly no skill at ranged combat.

I'm not protecting you from Aki.

[deathcurse]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

RB's style leaves you with a bittersweet ending. DC's style leaves you pulling a knife out of your side. =X

LOL, I like this statement .

Originally Posted by sniperk

Thank God. The world isn't spinning backwards anymore. *-* I was getting dizzy.

Nice take on the VxH ending tough, tough I can't stop picturing Rio, Corona, and even Einhart trying to do something about this.

You too!

Well, I obviously skipped a lot of events in between to get right to the misery . But I can easily come up with the worst of the worst paths to get to this point XD.

Originally Posted by Shigan

Can you imagine the destruction if we let those two in charge of this HxV thing? xD

... I suppose I'll act as the counterweight, to balance things in this universe. After all, I'm clinically unable to feel down and write sad things .

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I thought dc was already in charge of the HxV thing. :V

Originally Posted by Shigan

My dear, one need to see the timeline document to make a proper comment on this. I don't think me and dc are getting out of each other's hair anytime soon xD.

It's a collaborative story . But I think RD's meaning was that I, as one half of the destructive RB/dc combo , am already part of the Hayate x Vivio series .

....

Yeah, it's probably Shigan's influence that's keeping it light . Especially since her fic is set in the future, so I can't go anywhere too devastating . We'll see how long my crack lasts .

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Hey, we write the Logs together and it's been pretty light so far.

Originally Posted by Shigan

Logs?

The Daily Activity Logs. It's an AU fic about most of the cast as police officers and their daily hijinks. A cleaned-up version of early chapters is on my FF.net profile, but otherwise link is in my signature .

Originally Posted by NTFTH

The OC isn't a villain, has some slightly obnoxious habits but isn't a villain.

I was going to imply that the OC is about as good as Signum is when it comes to swordsmanship and has a device that can switch between being a double-bladed sword or two regular swords which isn't anything new since Fate does the same thing more or less with Bardiche in Force . But is slower then Signum, and has nearly no skill at ranged combat.

I'd be careful with OCs who aren't villains. It's a really fine line between them being minor characters who serve a side purpose to becoming major characters in the plot. I'd advise you to consider if their minor role can be filled by one of the canon characters, or if they can't then to keep in mind how they fare in the plot compared to the canon characters.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

The Daily Activity Logs. It's an AU fic about most of the cast as police officers and their daily hijinks. A cleaned-up version of early chapters is on my FF.net profile, but otherwise link is in my signature .

And it's relatively light and fluffy and happy, so there.

[SilentOutlaw]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Hope it didn't hit too hard .

Eh, don't rile up the plotbunnies please . They're dangerous creatures!

Yes, but they're quite amusing. Go plotbunnies go! Wreak havoc in this thread!

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by NTFTH

I was going to imply that the OC is about as good as Signum is when it comes to swordsmanship and has a device that can switch between being a double-bladed sword or two regular swordswhich isn't anything new since Fate does the same thing more or less with Bardiche in Force . But is slower then Signum, and has nearly no skill at ranged combat.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I'm not protecting you from Aki.

It's ok, i realized that Signum is only a subpar swordswoman with a humble set of powers. That means this guy is weaker than Cypha and Nanoha and possibly also weaker than Subaru(of course it depends the timeline your fic is taking place. By the time of FORCE Subaru is probably one of the few members of Section Six still "not-squishy" enough to put a good fight).

[NTFTH]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I'm not protecting you from Aki.

I might not need to be as Signum and the OC will never fight, or even meet one another. And to clarify I meant almost as strong as Signum when she isn't unisoned with Agito or even having her help in any way.

Edit: Aki it takes place a couple months after Force.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by NTFTH

I might not need to be as Signum and the OC will never fight, or even meet one another. And to clarify I meant as strong as Signum when she isn't unisoned with Agito or even having her help in any way.

Edit: Aki it takes place a couple months after Force.

Not. Protecting. You. From. Aki.

[DezoPenguin]

Raiser's right about that; if your OC is the villain, it's all right for them to have superior firepower (or at least access to sometimes superior firepower). Although villains with inferior firepower can be good as well, though the trick there is to make the villain's early success not seem like it comes from the hero being stupid (unless the hero is supposed to be stupid, which is generally not the case in MGLN), else you get the StrikerS problem of Hayate being apparently bad at combat tactics.

As Raiser notes, though, making your villain too strong is a problem for a whole bunch of reasons:

1. It cheapens last season's Epic World-Beating Threat To The Known Universe. Do that too many times and instead of dramatic tension, you just get a yawn.

2. Villain Sue becomes more and more a threat when the power level increases.

3. Increasing the villain's power level is often as much a sign of Bad Writing as is increasing the hero's power level. This is why generic shonen anime where the hero "must get stronger" about 3/4 of the way through the season is targeted at shonen--i.e., children. It's a cheap way to keep from having to write intelligent conflict between the sides, to just have the results determined by power level (this is the argument going on about Force right now, whether the Huckebein do or don't fall into this trap).

For a perfect example of OC villains done right, see Infinity, by Moczo. Enlil, Ammy, Susa, and Tsuku are exceptional antagonists, each with different personalities and goals that govern their actions. They make mistakes sometimes, they have dramatic power increases that don't feel like a Bad Writing Ass Pull, and most of all they're thoroughly defined characters that nonetheless don't overshadow the heroes.

As for OC protagonists, the three things that I find are key are:

1. Do not involve an OC in the love lives of the canon characters, directly or indirectly. Don't pair them with a CC, don't have them give love advice to a CC, don't have them play matchmaker for your preferred ship, just...don't. Nothing is an easier way to make a character a Mary Sue than to have them get involved in shipping.

2. Don't make your OC better than the best canon character at anything. They're not better at bombardment magic than Nanoha, they can't summon monsters bigger than Caro or Lulu, they aren't better at hand-to-hand weapon combat that Fate or Signum, they aren't better at strange, obscure forms of magical martial arts than Ein, they aren't better at research than Yuuno, they don't have more raw power than Hayate, they aren't more moe than Vivio. If you want your OC to be The Ace, make them The Ace of something that doesn't exist yet in canon.

(Example of this done well: synaesthetic's Celica Lynn-Irisfield from "The Call" and false light is among the best computer hackers in the Bureau. Thus far, canon hasn't actually featured any character who does more than use computers.)

3. Do not give your OC protagonist some rare/unique ability that is the key to their importance to the plot (i.e. in the way Vivio is the Sankt Kaiser's clone, so Quattro could use her to operate the Cradle). This basically reduces them to a plot device. If the OC is important to the plot in a key way, let it flow naturally from a normal skill base.

Spoiler for false light spoilers:

Again from false light, Celica ended up being key to the villain's plot because she could analyze Al-Hazard magic and learn how to process it, because the different magical styles' processing languages were roughly analogous to computer languages. If instead she'd turned out to be of some rare bloodline descended from the Ancient Archons of Al-Hazard, that would have been cheesy and idiotic.

Otherwise, OCs are basically part of the background that helps to fill out and expand on the world that the characters inhabit. Develop them on-stage in accordance with the needs of the plot and interesting storytelling; it's perfectly fine to know things about the OC's background that never get told in the story, because that helps you to understand what they do and how they do it so that their actions flow in a natural, logical path.

Edit: Good grief, twelve new messages went up while I was typing that!

[deathcurse]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

And it's relatively light and fluffy and happy, so there.

Hehehe...but for HOW LONG?!?!?!

Originally Posted by SilentOutlaw

Yes, but they're quite amusing. Go plotbunnies go! Wreak havoc in this thread!

No rousing the bunnies! They're vicious beasts, they are!

Originally Posted by NTFTH

I might not need to be as Signum and the OC will never fight, or even meet one another. And to clarify I meant as strong as Signum when she isn't unisoned with Agito or even having her help in any way.

Edit: Aki it takes place a couple months after Force.

Like other people have said, do be aware that OCs generally aren't liked as much unless they're really minor characters there to plug little holes in the plot, or villains. For me, I'd consider a "minor OC" to have become way too important if they have a fight scene on their own without a canon character .

Not saying that it won't work for you, but it's a perilous field .

[Shigan]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Yeah, it's probably Shigan's influence that's keeping it light . Especially since her fic is set in the future, so I can't go anywhere too devastating . We'll see how long my crack lasts .

...so now you all know who to murder if you wanna see the HxV thing go down in flames.

Or wait, that's not gonna happen. I already finished The Things We Tame!

Related question to someone who hopefully knows: How tall is Adult/saint kaiser Vivio?

[Rising Dragon]

Which just makes me the odd ball out, what with the fic involving an OC as a protagonist. :V

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Hehehe...but for HOW LONG?!?!?!

Shhh, don't spoil the upcoming storyline we have planned!

[SilentOutlaw]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Shhh, don't spoil the upcoming storyline we have planned!

Don't worry, we all figured the Logs were going that route eventually. It's only a matter of time

[deathcurse]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

As for OC protagonists, the three things that I find are key are:

1. Do not involve an OC in the love lives of the canon characters, directly or indirectly. Don't pair them with a CC, don't have them give love advice to a CC, don't have them play matchmaker for your preferred ship, just...don't. Nothing is an easier way to make a character a Mary Sue than to have them get involved in shipping.

I agree with all of Dezo's points , but I wanted to comment on this one in particular .

I totally broke that rule with Morgan Link in "Gut Feeling" by pairing her up with Hayate , but then again it's debatable whether or not Morgan is a "protagonist" or not . (Seriously though, she's in more of an antagonist role in the story anyway, and besides, I used an OC because I didn't want to derail a canon character just to make them a sucking-up jerk.)

But a good example would be Celica (syn) and Victor (RB) from Shadowverse--neither of them are involved with any CC, which keeps the annoyance level down (the fact that they're both good characters is a bonus ).

Originally Posted by Shigan

...so now you all know who to murder if you wanna see the HxV thing go down in flames.

Or wait, that's not gonna happen. I already finished The Things We Tame!

*Snicker* That's very true! And despite the fun, I wouldn't mess with your work to post it........edited . So no tragic deaths, awwww!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Which just makes me the odd ball out, what with the fic involving an OC as a protagonist. :V

Not to say it can't be done, but man, would it be hard .

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Shhh, don't spoil the upcoming storyline we have planned!

Originally Posted by SilentOutlaw

Don't worry, we all figured the Logs were going that route eventually. It's only a matter of time

As mentioned above, I wasn't really spoiling anything --they already expect it of us, my dear .