(L) No. 6

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

It really isn't that big a deal. As of yet, all anyone has said was that the anime missed a line here, or an embarrassing moment there.

I'm guessing you missed it, because Cril removed the spoiler that got me posting.

Originally Posted by orion

We're suppose to be minimizing the spoiler tag usage anyways. If the episode aired, then we don't need the tags.

Not if we're posting about stuff that wasn't in the episode. Comparisons are meant to go "under clearly marked spoiler tags". Speculation like what you said in your next post is completely fine with me, since you noted that it was a guess.

Originally Posted by .x.crii.x.

I think she meant what I had posted before. It wasn't even a spoiler, I just said something along the lines of "wondering if they would animate something about a certain character?". Although I never even explained what happened to the character or in what way it affected the story. Meh, edited my post anyway. :P

I really don't want to make a bigger fuss out of this than I have to, so just let me explain why even that is a spoiler.

In certain types of series, even knowing that a certain character is around at the end is a spoiler. Maybe you don't see it that way, but No.6 is about a dystopian society; most dystopian series have people dying; hence knowing that a character is alive at the end tells you that that character didn't die in the course of the series.

Even knowing that some people hate the 2nd half, or the ending or whatever (it's not No.6, but I won't say which series it is - those following it probably know) can colour the way you look at a series/title/novel etc etc.

IMHO, that's why AS has a spoiler policy that says

Regardless of these exceptions, any comment that discloses an event, character, plot or other information before it is revealed within the specific work being discussed is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying No.6 (just trying not to post because I can't spare the time), but I'd enjoy it a whole lot more if everyone stopped referring to stuff they know is coming up.

[Fabelyn]

I don't get why the spoiler tags are a big deal right now. Noone has been saying future novel/manga spoilers, not even under tags, and from what i've seen people are discussiing what was cut from the novels under spoiler tags. So why is this such a big deal? Yes, maybe one person didn't follow the rules but sheesh, that's normal.


@Friera: Right now there's no chance Shion and Nezumi will turn into rivals, I think, since Shion is absolutely clueless about the world and needs Nezumi for food and shelter. The only chance of that happening, and I really hope they dont do that, is if at the last episode Nezumi is about to do something that will destroy all of no.6 and Shion stops him.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Fabelyn

I don't get why the spoiler tags are a big deal right now. Noone has been saying future novel/manga spoilers, not even under tags, and from what i've seen people are discussiing what was cut from the novels under spoiler tags. So why is this such a big deal? Yes, maybe one person didn't follow the rules but sheesh, that's normal.

Want to read the previous page again before you say any of that?

Three or four people haven't been following the rules, including yourself, I might add.

For the third time: comparisons are allowed "under clearly marked spoiler tags", not just normal episode spoiler tags.

All I'm asking for is some courtesy, so that people (like me) who haven't read the manga/novels yet can find out what happens in them for ourselves. Is that really too much to ask?

[Kirarakim]

The parasitic bee, makes me think of the X-Files

[Fabelyn]

Originally Posted by karice67

Want to read the previous page again before you say any of that?

Three or four people haven't been following the rules, including yourself, I might add.

For the third time: comparisons are allowed "under clearly marked spoiler tags", not just normal episode spoiler tags.

All I'm asking for is some courtesy, so that people (like me) who haven't read the manga/novels yet can find out what happens in them for ourselves. Is that really too much to ask?

Please tell me where I didn't follow the rules in the last page? I have two posts in it and both are under spoiler tags and neither is talking about future spoilers of any kind.

And I counted 2 times spoilers were not behind tags (although I might have missed something I admit).

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Fabelyn

Please tell me where I didn't follow the rules in the last page? I have two posts in it and both are under spoiler tags and neither is talking about future spoilers of any kind.

And I counted 2 times spoilers were not behind tags (although I might have missed something I admit).

*sighs* Read what I posted here.

As I said before, "clearly marked" doesn't just mean

Spoiler for episode 3:

this is an example

TELL US that you're talking about the novel, or the manga, in the spoiler tag itself. i.e. have it say

Spoiler for novel comparison:

this is another example

or something to that effect.

Clear enough?

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

the episodes seem to really end quickly, which might count as a good thing.

just finished episode 3. Nezumi is kind of a bitter fellow..
We still don't know the secret behind the curtain, but whatever, his grudge against No.6 is heavy.

Spoiler for episode 3:

So other than white hair, and red eyes, did Sion's body develop/age anymore?

Spoiler for response:

Actually I don't think his eyes did change color, even if they look more red, since the only changes described in the novel are the white hair and the giant scar. But no, other than that Sion didn't go through the rapid aging that all the other victims did.

[Shiina]

All right, time to de-lurk and start posting. I've been really enjoying this anime so far. It's not the best in terms of adaptations but for trying to squeeze a 9-volume novel series into 11 episodes, they're doing a pretty damn good job of it.

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

Spoiler for response:

Actually I don't think his eyes did change color, even if they look more red, since the only changes described in the novel are the white hair and the giant scar. But no, other than that Sion didn't go through the rapid aging that all the other victims did.

Spoiler for response:

I think they did change to red, his eyes were pretty clearly brown before. Not all the anime designs match the novel - for example, the novel never mentioned anything about Nezumi's ponytail, so all pre-anime-design fanarts have him with short hair.

And about the next episode preview, not sure if this counts as a spoiler or not but since people seem to be pretty touchy in this thread...

Spoiler for More about pacing than content itself:

The episode 4 preview contains scenes from almost every chapter up to the end of volume 3. The anime has barely touched volume 2 at the moment. I have no clue what Bones is trying to do here, but this pacing... I understand we still have 8 volumes to go through, but man. That's about 3 episodes worth of material right there. If they can make this work, Bones has new found respect from me. But I can't imagine how it's going to work.

[klare]

haha "send a message to the health bureau"? Sion is so naive that he needs more "punishment" to get the reality, Rat seems to be wanting revenge on the city, the mysteries are interesting

Sion and Rat both remind me of the short ponytail Alphard and the white-haired Canaan, the 2 main chars in Canaan

btw i dont think Safu should be allowed to bring that weapon-like stick onto the plane...

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So we have genuine moral ambiguity here, where Nezumi's admirable goals may call for highly questionable means that harm innocent people, and where Sion's admirable desire to save people may actually serve to empower or enable a highly corrupt and authoritarian government. It's a compelling moral struggle, made so real and vibrant by how it's easy to see where both sides are coming from.

"They become what they behold." Nezumi's hatred has made him callous, and so to that extent a party of No. 6. And Sion's sympathy presumes the objects of sympathy that No. 6 provides. Neither are free, of what they either hate or want to help.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anyway, I'm thoroughly enjoying this anime, and I'm definitely looking forward to more.

I agree.

[Dante of the Inferno]

Originally Posted by Shiina

Spoiler for response:

I think they did change to red, his eyes were pretty clearly brown before. Not all the anime designs match the novel - for example, the novel never mentioned anything about Nezumi's ponytail, so all pre-anime-design fanarts have him with short hair.

All I know is:

Spoiler for :

Sion X Shiro

Originally Posted by Shiina

And about the next episode preview, not sure if this counts as a spoiler or not but since people seem to be pretty touchy in this thread...

Spoiler for More about pacing than content itself:

The episode 4 preview contains scenes from almost every chapter up to the end of volume 3. The anime has barely touched volume 2 at the moment. I have no clue what Bones is trying to do here, but this pacing... I understand we still have 8 volumes to go through, but man. That's about 3 episodes worth of material right there. If they can make this work, Bones has new found respect from me. But I can't imagine how it's going to work.

Since EVERYTHING has to be in fricken tags these days:

Spoiler for Pacing:

This is generally what happens when shows have to condense advanced material into 12 or less episodes. The writers decided on a bare-bones operation (like Deadman Wonderland), and so even if the pacing isn't wonky (which would be quite a feat), viewers of only the anime will likely lose the sense of ambiance that the little details from the novels helped to create.

[ars89]

So the bees only target those who become a threat to No.6. Interesting way to get rid of people and then just call them accidents. So the black spot was on the back of his neck right, i'm just asking because if it was then wouldn't Nezumi have been cutting along the spine as well? Nezumi is a nice guy when he wants to be. Can't believe Shion hasn't learned anything form almost being killed by the same people he's still defending.

[Fabelyn]

Originally Posted by karice67

Clear enough?

Spoiler for No reason, but just in case...:

Yes, now it is.

Originally Posted by ars89

So the bees only target those who become a threat to No.6. Interesting way to get rid of people and then just call them accidents. So the black spot was on the back of his neck right, i'm just asking because if it was then wouldn't Nezumi have been cutting along the spine as well? Nezumi is a nice guy when he wants to be. Can't believe Shion hasn't learned anything form almost being killed by the same people he's still defending.

Firstly: is it a bee or a wasp? I heard that the translation was wrong and it's a wasp...

I ddin't get that the bee/wasp targets only threats to no. 6 at all. If it did, Sion's friend wouldn't have died, since he was loyal. Plus the way Sion and Nezumi were talking about it made it sound as if that thing would infect nyone, thus killing all of No. 6 in the future. I think Sion and his friend were infected because they came into contact with the other guy infected.

But yeah, Sion needs to learn a few life lessons ^^

[wandering-dreamer]

19.04 has been using wasp and I think some people pointed out that it looks more like a wasp than a bee (besides, wasps are just scarier ). And I agree with Fabelyn, when I was reading the novel/manga it sounded like the wasps were created/mutated/got started inside of No. 6 but that they weren't a government tool to kill off the dissenters. I mean, why would they be arresting Sion if they could remotely activate the wasp to kill him anyway? There was also dialogue cut here that made me think that.

Spoiler for comparison, episode two vs the novel:

in the novel, Sion is going to be charged with creating the killer wasps (since at one point he was an ecology major and he has a reason to begrudge the government) and the government official in the car is trying to get him to admit to that. The official seemed at least half convinced that Sion had created the wasps so while yes it could be a conspiracy that only the highest level officials know, they really did seem to be panicking over these sudden deaths.

[Fabelyn]

Interesting, going around blogs and forums I realized just how many hidden messages/meanings episode 3 alone has (I'm not talking about the Bl people):

-How Sion's situation relates to the passage of Macbeth he read.
-How their situation relates to the Happy Prince Nezumi quoted.
-How the story can relate to Adam and Eve's story. With Adam=Sion, Nezumi=Eve and Safu=Lilith. Specially due to the snake like scar in Sion's body and

Spoiler for episode 4 preview:

the preview saying Nezumi also goes by Eve

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Fabelyn

Firstly: is it a bee or a wasp? I heard that the translation was wrong and it's a wasp...

I don't know what they're supposed to be in the novels, but it looks more like a (stereotypical) wasp than a (stereotypical) bee, and is parasitoid like many wasp species. (I don't claim to be an expert on this but as far as I'm aware there are no bee species that lay their eggs inside hosts.) "Hachi" in itself could technically mean either bee or wasp but IMO the parasitism is a big clue here...

Also, look at the part in Crunchyroll's translation when Sion picks up a dead wasp and examines it while Nezumi comments that it's just a regular 'ashinagabachi.' The translator obviously looked up the species' name and translated it as 'paper wasp'... then went back to talking about killer bees, apparently without making any connection. (Maybe s/he's a big Eddie Izzard fan. )

(Also see: "Nezumi" getting translated as "Rat" even though it's probably supposed to be "Mouse," re: his coloring and whatnot. Then again, I can live with this because "Rat" has the "street rat" connotation in English.)

[Flower]

Watched episode 3 yesterday ... hmm ... am continuing to enjoy the setting and following the story of Sion (who really is the main character for me) as he develops and changes. I would give the ep 7/10.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Mawaru Penguindrum which airs on the same day as this show talks a LOT about Survival Strategy to the point where the phrase is uttered every single episode. However No. 6 actually depicts it in the character of Nezumi to the point where his entire life has been coming up with strategies on how to survive outside of the cities.

Survival talk played a big part in this episode and I really like how it was depicted and contrasted between Nezumi and Shion's views on the world. Shion was ready to give up as he thought what happened to his co-worker was about to happen to him (really like the way they depicted the world of agony he was in), but such a notion almost came across as a sin to Nezumi and he wouldn't have it and saved Shion's life for the second time in as many episodes.

Shion also took the literal shock of losing his hair pigment pretty rough, but again Nezumi handles it perfectly, allowing Shion his moment of grief, but again applying his experience with such matters (and you just know he's been through incomparably worse than Shion ever has up to this point) in order to tell him that he has to get used to it.

The chemistry between Shion and Nezumi is by far this shows greatest strength and easily the best character dynamic in any show I've seen so far this season. Their dialogues are the lifeblood of this show (this entire episode was for the most part just one long dialogue between them in one room) and I also like how neither of their positions come across as unreasonable. Shion's reaction is to be expected since all the hardship in his life has been compacted into this one moment in time and it's more than a person raised and pampered by the city can bear. Nezumi's reaction is also to be expected because Shion is his friend and he needs to be toughened up in order to survive. However you can also see the tenderness behind the survivalist mentality and that he genuinely wants Shion to survive this ordeal so he can be reunited with his mother and Safu.

With each episode Nezumi's character becomes stronger and more memorable in my eyes. It really strikes the right balance between the selfishness that is necessary in a survivalist, but also the selflessness that is needed to gain friends and allies to help you when you can't survive on your own.

Shion's character isn't doing quite bad either. For all his pampering in life he can as Nezumi mentioned "sense the deception" behind it all and is a person constantly seeking truth and justice. Guy has a big heart himself. Both characters are extremely relatable to me. Really loving this show right now and it'll probably be the first one I try to recommend to my one buddy who has been falling out of sync with anime over the past several years (the only show I've gotten him to watch recently is Tiger & Bunny).

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I don't know what they're supposed to be in the novels, but it looks more like a (stereotypical) wasp than a (stereotypical) bee, and is parasitoid like many wasp species. (I don't claim to be an expert on this but as far as I'm aware there are no bee species that lay their eggs inside hosts.) "Hachi" in itself could technically mean either bee or wasp but IMO the parasitism is a big clue here...

Also, look at the part in Crunchyroll's translation when Sion picks up a dead wasp and examines it while Nezumi comments that it's just a regular 'ashinagabachi.' The translator obviously looked up the species' name and translated it as 'paper wasp'... then went back to talking about killer bees, apparently without making any connection. (Maybe s/he's a big Eddie Izzard fan. )

(Also see: "Nezumi" getting translated as "Rat" even though it's probably supposed to be "Mouse," re: his coloring and whatnot. Then again, I can live with this because "Rat" has the "street rat" connotation in English.)

Here's the original light novel dialogue translated into English.

Spoiler for No. 6 Volume 1 Chapter 5, in depth explanation of wasps:

After they ate, Mouse placed the petri dish and a pair of tweezers in front of Shion.

“I pulled this out of you. Open the lid and take a look. It might be in your field of expertise.”

“My field of expertise?”

In the dish was a black cord, about an inch long. I tried to grab it with the tweezers. He could just make out traces of a thin membrane on before a mass of black, gooey, melted-looking liquid.

“It’s a… wing?”

“That’s what it looks like. I have no idea what I’m talking about though. I took one other sample. What’s this?”

It was the black clump. It looked hard. It looked like something had chewed through it.

“It’s a chrysalis… probably.”

“A chrysalis, like what moths and butterflies make? Oh, moths make cocoons right?”

“The cocoon is the covering of the chrysalis. Egg, larva, pupa(chrysalis), imago. Most insects develop in those stages. This is probably a bee.”

“You can tell?”

“I can kind of make out wings. Four membranous wings… mostly.”

I gulped a bit.

“I saw it with my own eyes. A black bee flew out of Mr. Yamase’s neck.”

“So this black thing is the same?”

“Probably. It was in the middle of its metamorphosis as a pupa. Even though it chewed through the shell, it didn’t become a complete imago. It failed.”

“Why?”

Why? Hell if I know. The bee incubated inside Yamase and completed its transformation into an imago, so why couldn’t it hatch in me?

Was it just a coincidence? Or… Shion mulled it over in his mind.

“I don’t know. I do know that it’s some kind of parasite that lives in the human body.”

Mouse stared at the dish unblinkingly.

“A parasitic bee… I thought bees just drank the nectar from flowers.”

“Those are honeybees and bumblebees. Most ‘bees’ are actually solitary wasps.”

“Are there parasitic wasps too?”

I nodded. Mouse’s questions were simple and short and Shion knew more than enough to answer. But they weren’t off topic. They were nimbly and precisely getting at the core of the problem. As I answered, I felt uneasy as if I was being cornered. I felt like I was going to blurt out something awful that I couldn’t take back. But, I didn’t shy away. I can’t just play dumb and gloss over it. I couldn’t just pretend nothing happened and stop him from looking for an answer. I was a witness. That’s what I thought. I was a host to a parasite, I fought it and won. I had a red snake etched into me as proof of that. Yes, this is a seal. Shion caught Mouse’s gaze head on.

“There are thought to be about 200,000 kinds of parasitic wasp. Wasps and ants are hymenopterans, they’re highly specialized insects, and there are probably tens of thousands of species still unrecorded, and of those there are probably a lot of parasitic wasps… I think.”

“So you mean you don’t know what came out of you two?”

“I don’t have proof.”

“But you could get it.”

“If I had the right resources.”

“Aren’t you yourself the ultimate resource? You had a parasite in you, what was it like? Is it a new species of parasitic wasp?”

“You’re really annoying sometimes. “

“And you’re always a pain in the ass. You don’t have proof? Gimme a fucking break. You really have no idea how dangerous the situation is. Wasps are killing people.”

“Most parasitic wasps do that.”

“What?”

“Most parasitic species of wasp could be more accurately described as parasitoids. They reach full maturity attached to a single body… which they only need as a host during that period. Eventually, they devour the host.”

They eventually devour the host. The words echoed freshly in my mind.

“What kind of host?”

“All sorts. Moth, butterfly and ant larva, fruits… One species of ichneumonodiea rhysella approximators lay eggs in xiphydriidae larvae and use them as a host.”

“So wasps parasitize other wasps?”

“And there’s another kind of ichneumonodiea, the pseudorhyssa alpestri, which lay eggs in the same xiphydriiae right after the rhysella does and eats both the rhysella and xiphydriidae larvae.”

“They even kill their own kind… Amazing, I thought humans were the only creatures that kill each other. And?”

“What?”

“Are there an wasps that use humans as hosts?”

“I’ve never heard of any. There are a lot of creatures that parasitize humans though. Viruses, and bacteria do, and so do flees and ticks. I’d heard that once a Warble Fly laid eggs into a boy’s head and one of them buried into his brain, but I think that’s an isolated incident… I’ve never heard anything like that about a wasp though. At least I don’t know. First of all, how does it lay eggs in a human body? How does it insert it’s ovipositor without the host noticing?”

“You don’t remember it at all?”

“Nope. It didn’t itch or hurt at all. I don’t remember being stung by a wasp either.”

“So, the parasite laid its eggs without you noticing at all.”

“Also, they mature very quickly. At which point in time, they emit some substance. And it causes humans to age rapidly and die. Rigor mortis sets in and abates rapidly, and the now adult parasitic wasp chews through the corpse and leaves.”

Shion and Mouse stared at each other, breathing in tandem.

“You… really survived.”

“Yeah. Just thinking about it makes me break out in a cold sweat.”

[Fabelyn]

About the wasp/bee: you don't really need to read the novel to see which is it: when Sion and Nezumi are going to the hotel, Sion sees the exact same bug and gets kinda shocked, Nezumi feels the need to point out it's a normal paper wasp. Their reactions (and the look of the bug) only make sense if the 'killer bee' was in fact a 'killer wasp'. Plus, seeing the normal wasp makes Sion realize the 'killer wasp' will only start activity in spring.

From now on i'm calling it a 'killer wasp' until proven wrong.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

The chemistry between Shion and Nezumi is by far this shows greatest strength and easily the best character dynamic in any show I've seen so far this season. Their dialogues are the lifeblood of this show (this entire episode was for the most part just one long dialogue between them in one room) and I also like how neither of their positions come across as unreasonable. Shion's reaction is to be expected since all the hardship in his life has been compacted into this one moment in time and it's more than a person raised and pampered by the city can bear. Nezumi's reaction is also to be expected because Shion is his friend and he needs to be toughened up in order to survive. However you can also see the tenderness behind the survivalist mentality and that he genuinely wants Shion to survive this ordeal so he can be reunited with his mother and Safu.

With each episode Nezumi's character becomes stronger and more memorable in my eyes. It really strikes the right balance between the selfishness that is necessary in a survivalist, but also the selflessness that is needed to gain friends and allies to help you when you can't survive on your own.

You whole post was wonderful, but I wanted to highlight these parts.

A lot of people didn't like Nezumi's harsh atitude, but I always thought it was given, considering what he might have been through to survive. Speaking of Survival Strategies, ging back to no. 6 just to save Sion was careless and stupid, survival-wise. It showed that for all his talk Nezumi is still a good person.

Honestly, if Sion decides to still help no. 6 after knowing the truth, I doubt Nezumi will actually harm him.