Claymore Chapter 117

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Malak

Also are we sure that there weren't any generation with mixed genders?

Remember that female that was with Isley's army?

You could say that she joined him afterward and wasn't necessarily part of the generation, but we don't know if she actually was either -- either way, the idea that their were co-ed generations is at least plausible

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

I'd say more like, Galatea has been without eyes for about seven years, whereas Roxanne's time with Neidine(sp?) was likely on the order of several months at most. Her 'memory' should still be reasonably recent. Also, she has her other eye to reference.

sounds like a good explaination to me. But one thing is certain:
roxanne is an defensive type.

[theevilanimal]

Roxanne reminds me more and more of that girl I went to college with! Funny stuff, her name was Roxanna! and she has a mole under her eye!

offtopic:

Spoiler:

I just noticed that some of you have left nice comments and reputation points on my profile page, over the years of absence. Sorry if I didn't answer back, I didn't even know it myself!!

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

I'm not at all impressed by revelations about the power and character of these 3 number ones.

All three of them are dwarfed by Teresa or Priss. Just end the series already and confirm the notion that the greater monster between the two that Irene observed that day was Teresa.

Irene didn't view Teresa as a "monster" by the end of the fight but someone whom lost her edge, ergo no matter how you view it Priscilla would have been the strongest "monster" she sensed that day.

But really lets not debate this here and now... at least wait a week for the convo to die down a bit about this chapter. This chapter offered nothing new for another Teresa vs Priscilla debate so take it to the Teresa vs Priscilla thread if you want to continue.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Plus Roxanne was considered one of the strongest #1s that ever existed so I doubt Riful as a warrior would win with her. Unless they would have youki suppressant pills then or had a back-up.

Originally Posted by Gooral

As for Roxanne, for now I still think that youki suction is the most probable thing since that would at least explain how someone being #35 could overcome such a humongous gap and not only became #1 but one of the strongest #1s. Youki synchronization doesn't explain it (not that I see at least). If Roxanne would have only average or even strong youki (so let's say C or even B class) there would be now way she could become a very strong #1. And since they were hunting ABs, even more often than in Teresa's generation (since neither Noel nor Sophia even knew they existed) the survival rate shouldn't be that long. It's possible that because of that they've changed their policy and didn't hunt them as often.

Disagree... seems to me much time passed between the deaths (maybe not 7 year but maybe so too...). So Roxy, like Yuma, just got stronger over time through fighting hard assignments (in Yuma's case training) and just happened also be stealing abilities. Though I can't discount your theory and do view it as a legit point to take, at least until Yagi explains her power more. Though I doubt she just saps yoki since if her target died she'd be drained and one could heal an eye after losing tons of yoki... there has to be more to it for it to work permanently.

Renee herself said such events as a low ranker rising though the ranks was where rare, the statement implies it was possible and had occurred before. Now she also stated that such a warrior would be widely talked about and once again this holds true for Roxanne. So it's not improbable, and possibly quite likely, that she was one of the warriors Renee thought of as she stated the exception to the rule was rare.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Besides, just as Raftela has similar ability like Roxanne, Roxanne might have similar ability like Destroyer.

Could you be more clear here? Yoki jamming or takeover the opponents body?

Want more info so I can consider this possibility.

Originally Posted by Gooral

There is also a possibility she was cheating during the exam and not performing as well as she could or messing up with someone who was evaluating her power making her look weaker (or maybe stronger than she really was although I doubt it).

Hmm... this may have been true in the parts of her black widow cycle (especially in the I'm about to cause your death parts) but her awe of Uranus' technique implies she was rather weak in the beginning and correctly ranked since she considered that move impressive.

Originally Posted by Gooral

As for Cassandra being as strong as average #5, as I've written here it might apply only to non youki release (and that's how Roxanne and Cassandra sparred and that's how she was fighting Audrey and the rest). Since she was said to be many times stronger than #2 it must have been the case.

I agree that this was based on the low level fight they had and it's unknown just how deeply Roxanne was able to sense her true power since this part of the story was told from a 3rd parties point of view.

I'm withholding judgement on Cassandra's true yoki level until more info is known. After all handling every last AB without backup and never getting scratched is no small feat since she couldn't have been that lucky every time without some power to back up her technique... I think it's best to say she has no skills for regular combat atm. She instinctively is at her best when she is fighting irregularly relying on parries and counterattacks. She's like a drunken master when not "drunk" when fighting normally. That's all we can say atm...

Originally Posted by Gooral

And yeah, how did Roxanne die is a real mystery.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Also are we sure that there weren't any generation with mixed genders?
Maybe there were,but the n.1 was always male,tbh we are not even sure if Riful was n.1 in a completely female generation.
Not saying that mixed gen actually happened ,just that atm i don't remember any particular evidence denying this possibility.

I think it was greatly implied Riful was the #1 of the first all female gen right after the remaining none awakened males where "put to pasture" by the wording Galatea gave... the wording doesn't even leave much wiggle room for Riful to have been promoted before the gen became all female. Unless the Japanese text is more open than the English.

Though you're right that there could have been other other gens with mixed genders...

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

What makes you think that Riful couldn't be stronger or just as strong as Roxy as a warrior?
I don't see any evidence......

Cause Roxanne would have sought Riful out instead of Cassandra if a sword technique was all she had going for her, especially since she already had the "most beautiful sword technique". As Gooral stated Dae's convo with the other MiB implies Roxanne (and Cassandra) where two of the strongest number ones that ever existed so maybe they could have given a loli a run for her money.

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Remember that female that was with Isley's army?

You could say that she joined him afterward and wasn't necessarily part of the generation, but we don't know if she actually was either -- either way, the idea that their were co-ed generations is at least plausible

We have found the truth!!!
Half of the ABs in Isley's army were in truth Isley's harem when she was still a warrior!!!! (and that he kept until he met Prissy)

Oh Isley, you sly dog!!!

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Renee herself said such events as a low ranker rising though the ranks was where rare, the statement implies it was possible and had occurred before. Now she also stated that such a warrior would be widely talked about and once again this holds true for Roxanne. So it's not improbable, and possibly quite likely, that she was one of the warriors Renee thought of as she stated the exception to the rule was rare.

Disagree! Even strong warriors like helen or deneve(Number 14, 21 before half awakening and seven years training) still can not match the power of a number one. That is a fact. I can not proof you wrong but it goes against all we know about the claymoreverse. Roxanne was special and had a special ability. IMO everything comes from her yoki synchronisation abilities. She doesn't steel abilities alone, she steels raw power!!
She has a fearsome power there which i still don't understand.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Originally Posted by Gooral

You mean futanari Claymores?

Ohhh yeah confusing aint it.


JK JK JK jk..



Raki's gonna run into the #1s on his way out. Raki will stomp them.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

I'd say more like, Galatea has been without eyes for about seven years, whereas Roxanne's time with Neidine(sp?) was likely on the order of several months at most. Her 'memory' should still be reasonably recent. Also, she has her other eye to reference.

What if she was right eye dominate?

j/k

But really, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance since she was right handed the odds of her being right eyed are higher...

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

Disagree! Even strong warriors like helen or deneve(Number 14, 21 before half awakening and seven years training) still can not match the power of a number one. That is a fact. I can not proof you wrong but it goes against all we know about the claymoreverse. Roxanne was special and had a special ability. IMO everything comes from her yoki synchronisation abilities. She doesn't steel abilities alone, she steels raw power!!
She has a fearsome power there which i still don't understand.

Oh right the she has an ability and must be special argument

*cough* Miria (former #18) *cough*

Disprove me Miria isn't at least normal #1 material. I dare you.

(going to ignore the Clare is possible #1 now even though it's easy to likely prove but since she too is "special" I don't want you discrediting my entire argument on that alone)

[Ulquihorror]

In the chapter, it is said that Uranus used her hilt and guard to compensate for her lack of speed. Can anybody elaborate on that?

[MalakTawus]

Cause Roxanne would have sought Riful out instead of Cassandra if a sword technique was all she had going for her, especially since she already had the "most beautiful sword technique". As Gooral stated Dae's convo with the other MiB implies Roxanne (and Cassandra) where two of the strongest number ones that ever existed so maybe they could have given a loli a run for her money.

Wait a sec Ryus,we have already stated that they were in different generation (even if i'm still waiting for a comfirmation <that Riful was indeed the first female n.1> from the japanese version,since the english version is not always very accurate....), i was asking in a general sense why Gooral think that Riful wasn't as strong as Roxy.

*cough* Miria (former #18) *cough*

And i'll add that we don't even know if that was her first rank.......maybe Miria started from an even weaker rank....

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Could you be more clear here? Yoki jamming or takeover the opponents body?

Well, Raftela by youki synchronization could mess up warriors senses and make them recall most disturbing memories and amplify them. Roxanne used it to hide herself and might have used it to make them dizzy or confuse the distance or hallucinate plus thanks to aligning her youki she could learn the techniques. This would explain how Claymores would lose against opponents they would usually win against. But I still don't see how that would help her boos her power so much if she didn't steal youki. So not just suck it like Destroyer but also absorb it and make it hers but under certain conditions for example having her youki of the same strength or stronger or having the same youki signature and gradually sucking it bit by bit, so she wouldn't steal 90% but more like 10% and with every new prey she would get slightly stronger and could hunt more powerful ones and suck more youki. 10% of a super strong warrior power would make her infinitely better if she was still #35 after all.

I've gone off your question, not sure if I answered it. To be honest I don't have any original idea with Raftela ability.

Originally Posted by Ryus

*cough* Miria (former #18) *cough*

#17 Ryus . Although she might have been lower, we only know she was as low as #17 but what number she had earlier (if she had), no.

I've had a discussion about it on a certain forum a month ago (can't tell the name of the forum but if you want to find it just google "No. When she finished her training she was #17 (or even lower). So I think it would be a stretch if she could fight Hysteria exchanging blow for a blow. And we've already seen that she's slower than Hysteria in unreleased state, Hysteria managed to cut her up at least two times while she could do nothing to her. ") I've been arguing that Miria's power up is absurd and in this chapter Yagi has laughed at my face .

[Awakened]

Originally Posted by Ulquihorror

In the chapter, it is said that Uranus used her hilt and guard to compensate for her lack of speed. Can anybody elaborate on that?

She basically fought like a barbarian. Its like someone kicking, punching and biting in a sword fight. All they care about is winning, not how they win.

[MalakTawus]

LOL,i have already prepared another "bomb question" about the QS for when the thread will start to die down.......and even if it seems absolutely incredible it's a question that i don't remember to have heard a real discussion about.....and it's also a REAL mystery,LOL.
(don't worry,it's different from the usual discussion about QS)

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Ulquihorror

In the chapter, it is said that Uranus used her hilt and guard to compensate for her lack of speed. Can anybody elaborate on that?

She doesn't chop up targets with just the tip of the blade but also with the hilt and guard.

This is likely an analogy to the actual Claymores which were used in real life (the sword from Braveheart). Most of the blade was never sharpened and people would stab someone in the eye with the guard or ram the hilt between vulnerable parts in the armor.

You see only the last 2 feet of Claymores where sharpened (this also made the non sharped parts very good part of the blade to block faster/smaller blades with since it wouldn't chip as much)... so warriors could grip the lower part of the sword and then use that hand as a fulcrum to gain speed to ram the guard/hilt into someone. The effect was making there sword both a staff, mace, short blade, and long blade.

Uranus' is likely using the one hand version of this where she will randomly attack with the guard/hilt instead of just the blade... it's good for surprise attack though as stated is crude and likely not very useful against large/thick/armored opponents.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Wait a sec Ryus,we have already stated that they were in different generation (even if i'm still waiting for a comfirmation <that Riful was indeed the first female n.1> from the japanese version,since the english version is not always very accurate....), i was asking in a general sense why Gooral think that Riful wasn't as strong as Roxy.

Read the last half of what you quoted... but I'll repeat it and clarify what I meant here. Dae stated she was among the strongest #1's ever and only they could likely equal and/or surpass the three AOs, plus many view riful as weaker than Isley and/or Luciela so taking this into account if Roxanne was = Isley (warrior) then from someone holding that point of view she'd be > Riful (warrior). Not saying I agree or disagree here... just saying it's possible and founded on facts in the manga.

I posted the first line since at the time I wasn't sure if you where still hung up on there possible gens overlapping... don't ask me why I thought that I have no idea...

[MalakTawus]

@Ryus

Sorry Ryus,i'm multitasking and i missed that part.
Said that, the conversation doesn't even imply that Roxy is stronger than Riful,it simply says that she should be more or less on the same level, but we don't know who really would be the strongest.
Conclude from that conversation that Roxy is stronger doesn't make sense,it could be true or it could be false.
Of course i'm not saying that what Gooral said is not possible,it's just that it could also be the exact opposite with the same probability.

.....btw i also don't agree with people saying that Isley is surely stronger than Riful,but this is an enterely different discussion (already done in the past btw).

[haegar]

Roxy's mysterious demise baffles me. Yet another thought: She got a huge problem by becoming #1 herself. Her personality NEEDS another one to look up, emulate and then discard. Once she atained #1 rank she couldn't progress any further. That ought to lead to some psychological problem for her. Maybe after a time of not having anybody new to love she kinda snapped? And that led to whatever? MIBs killin her in som devious way? her quitting the org? Well i still have no answer to that. But maybe the beginning of her downfall was at that point where she reached the top and her psych pattern couldn't propell her forward anymore...

[MalakTawus]

Well,maybe Roxy could have been killed by a strong awakened n.2 like Rigardo,just saying..........or maybe it was Isley........

[Ulquihorror]

I actually believe that she lusted for power and in order to attain it, she needed to awaken. When the org knew about that, they sent all the warriors against her.

[Shiek927]

Arrrg, you got to me first Ryus -- While we can argue Claire being a bit more then special, Miria is a prime example of a warrior with fantastic 'normal' potential and rose through the ranks. She is definitely No.1 in her own right alongside Claire.

Though while Riful is indeed weaker then Isley, I would put her and Luciella in the same category, with Isley and Alicia in a higher one. And yes, the whole point of the revived No.1's were in reanimating warriors that were stronger then the Abyssal Ones out of at the time, so these three, as AB's, would more likely then not be stronger then the original big three.