AnimeSuki Forums

Lord Raiden · 2004-11-19, 23:11

ShinUmbra, if you honestly want to learn Japanese and you're serious about it, there's three good ways to learn it.

1. College classes.
2. Audio learning system
3. Tutor.

I'm doing the second. I'm using Pimselur's Japanese 1, ie basic japanese and OMG, that's been the best learning system out of the 3 I've tried so far. I tried one I thought would work and it got me started, but didn't help me with the speaking parts or understanding how one word played into another or word orders and the like. Pimsleur's has done that by using a "listen, repeat, practice, review, and quiz on the go" system that really makes you think and I've probubly learned and memorized more japanese in the last month that I've been working with that system than the 9 months with the previous book only system with audio word pronunciation.

And that's saying a lot because with my schedule I only get 1 hour a day (my drive home) 3 days a week, and 2 hours a day 2 days a week and 2 days that I can't do any lessons. And even then I'm not using the book, just the audio learning tapes. That's only 7 hours of learning a week PROVIDED that I don't have something else taking up my time on my drive home. On most weeks I'll get between 5-6 hours to study as I won't get a chance to study all 7 of those hours each week and yet I'm already at lesson 11. Heck, once I clear lesson 30 I'm going to get the intermediate lessons and keep pounding away at this. My goal is to be decently fluent verbally by June. I'll worry about learning the Kanji latter when time permits, but for now it doesn't.

But like I said, if you're really serious about learning Japanese, try Pimsleur's Japanese 1. It's the best. Plus you can convert the lessons over to MP3 (if you get the cd version) and listen to them on your MP3 player while you're doing work around the house, laying around at home, out walking, etc. If you work better in a classroom environment or one on one rather than audio learning, then go for either 1 or 3, but I highly suggest the Pimsleur's. If it works so well for me, you should be able to pick up Japanese very easily using it.

Reaver4k · 2004-11-19, 23:28

Hmmm... I have herd those words before, LOL...

I'll stick to Spainish Right now

MakubeX2 · 2004-11-19, 23:28

It's better to have a tutor IMO because a language requires practise to master.

What the point if you learn the basic but have nowhere to put the language into use.

With a native speaker, at least you can engage in a conversation of sorts and have him to point out your mistakes.

raikage · 2004-11-20, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Raiden

I've got a question about something that came up in my lessons today. When they say "This evening" it's "Konban" But when they say "Tomorrow evening" it's "ashita no ban". Why the possessive "no" when it's not used for "this evening"? Or is it not actually possessive and rather part of the word? Or am I totally missing something obvious here? o_0;;

You could just say "myouban" (明晩 = みょうばん ).

To answer your question, "no" in this case is being used more as a symbol of an adjective - to help figure which night you're talking about/what time tomorrow. You could also use "kyou no ban" 今日の晩 for "this evening".

princess_of_orb · 2004-11-20, 00:59

.....i only know a few japanese and they all've been said...so ill stay bak......and keep to english and chinese

princess_of_orb · 2004-11-20, 01:01

japanese is reali boring 2 learn but fun 2 talk.....makes no sense right.!?!?!?!?!?o well...thre is a thread that has japanese in its with english trnasllation its common japanese something

babbito2k · 2004-11-20, 02:58

Well, I was here... I read this... all I have to say is...

auf wiedersehen...

Lord Raiden · 2004-11-20, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by babbito2k

Well, I was here... I read this... all I have to say is...

auf wiedersehen...

LOL!

Wir soll probubly dies zu Englisch nur behalten.

Oh geez, I'm one to talk. Went and used Deutsch again.

Raikage, thanks for the explaination.

LynnieS · 2004-11-20, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Raiden

ShinUmbra, if you honestly want to learn Japanese and you're serious about it, there's three good ways to learn it.

1. College classes.
2. Audio learning system
3. Tutor.

Having a tutor is best as you get the one-on-one interaction and immediate critique of everything from your pronounciation to grammar. It can also be the most expensive choice.

An audio learning system like Pimsleur as Lord Raiden suggested is, IMHO, next. I still think, though, you will need to add a good text to complement the tapes/CDs; learning grammar rules and vocabulary is better done via reading than listening. Listening to spoken Japanese and using the language, you still need to do, though; otherwise, it's just book-learning, I've found.

Skip anime as a learning tool by itself, but it's a good way to see to apply what you've learned. Just don't expect miracles.

High school/college classes, from personal experience, I have no faith in them at all. Your situation may vary.

I'm doing the second and the third choices listed by Lord Raiden. My text is "Minna no Nihongo" ("Japanese for Everyone"), which is divided into four parts. There is a textbook with mainly exercises, a workbook with grammar rules and translations of the conversations, a kanji workbook, and CDs. The last two I bought myself, but was later told that my tutor could have made me a copy. Oops. For self-study, it's not the best.

Both "Japanese for Busy People" (three books) and "Genki - An Intermediate Course in Elementary Japanese" (two books) have CDs available. "Genki" has a more advanced book as well. Both will teach you the same things, so take your pick if you're interested.

molitar · 2006-01-20, 21:47

Ok I've watched quite a bit of anime and I notice them say something that sounds like skilrisamus or something like that before they enter the teachers room at school.. Visiting friends and answering parents greeting it seems to be some type of greeting, but I have not been able to find the word searching under references like HI, Hello that I usually see it translated as so I imagine it is a bit deeper than that like most of Japanese words.. Any of you know what the actual word is they are saying and what the actual meaning is?

MwyC · 2006-01-20, 21:59

shitsurei shimasu - i am going to be rude

molitar · 2006-01-20, 22:12

Nope that doesn't sound like it at all.. actually for japanese I would of spelled it wrong.. keep forgetting i sounds like e in japanese when I'm actually writing it. so it would be spelled more like by pronounciation... skelresamus.. almost has the sound of the word Christmas but with that slight rolling r sound that japanese has.

LynnieS · 2006-01-20, 22:27

Do you have an example from a recent series's episode? Without hearing it in person, I would agree with MwyC in "失礼します". It (more or less) means "please excuse my rudeness" - or "excuse me", which I've seen as well - and romanticized, it sounds like "shi-tsu-rei shi-mas".

Cloudnine · 2006-01-20, 22:32

shi'tsurei shimasu (しつれいします) Polite term used when entering a room.

I believe the English equivalent would be "May I come in?"

molitar · 2006-01-20, 23:18

Well seen it used a couple times on TMC watching Whisper of the Heart I just finished watching My Neighbor Totoro, Porco Rosso, and Whisper of the Heart. They showed it in dubbed version first than subbed.. Very touching shows.

Maybe it was that word in a different dialect perhaps since we all know pronounciations sound different in different regions. Just usually I hear that one sounding more like shee this sounded more like skle ris a mas. And they subbed it on the shows as Hi or hello which just didn't sound right to me since it was used in Whisper of the Heart when they entered the room and when Tsukishima ran out the girl used the same word and left.. Than when Tsukishima went to her friends house her parents said Hi or hello to her and she answered again with the same word.. So it really seems hi or hello would of been wrong since her friend wouldn't of said that on leaving the teachers room chasing after Tsukishima.

LynnieS · 2006-01-20, 23:34

My take from studies:

"shitsurei" can act as both a greeting and a farewell, and a more polite and formal form of it is "shitsurei shimasu", which you generally would use to speak with someone at a higher social level like the parents of someone else.

"gomen" acts much the same way, but in a different social context; it's less polite and more masculine, IMHO.

A "hi" or "hello" wouldn't be a bad translation when done as a greeting, IMHO, because you would care about the accuracy of the context it's being used than the literal translation, which would be - umm, checking my books and assuming it's right - "to lose one's decorum".

Source: "Nihongo - A Japanese Approach to Japanese" by Makoto Sugawara-san

Kinny Riddle · 2006-01-20, 23:57

失礼します (shitsurei shimasu) to literally translate would be "to be rude", or rather "please excuse my (apparent) rudeness".

Another similar term is お邪魔します (o jama shimasu), "please excuse me for interfering/causing trouble", usually used when being entering a room, whether you are invited or not. Especially when after you knock the door to enter a room, this term is used if you aren't sure if anyone is inside.

Ledgem · 2006-01-21, 00:42

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish, and he'll never go hungry.

Knock yourself out. Consider bookmarking it if you plan to take Japanese classes. Note that the Japanese also seems to accept romaji. If you can't read hiragana and would rather see the romaji back in results, toggle some of the settings for the dictionary, or use some of the mirrors. By default, some of the mirrors do romaji in the results, and you have to toggle settings for them to display hiragana/katakana.

Jump · 2006-02-06, 13:46

So I've been noticing the use of words such as tsundere. I am pretty sure they are meant to describe specific personalities of characters.

In this case, tsundere was used to describe Tohsaka Rin from fate/stay night. I am wondering the meaning of it? I heard it called "absolute terrority" but I have no idea what that would mean either. At least, not when referring to a human.

I heard a few others too. I am curious if people can list the various words with explainations, and/or reference characters if possible.

Thanks.

shadowplay · 2006-02-06, 14:17

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tsundere (ツンデレ) is a term used by anime fans to describe the attitude of a character, usually a girl.

Tsundere expresses itself in two distinct phases. The tsun-tsun phase, in which the character is mean, often violently. In the dere-dere phase, the attitude makes a complete turn to the opposite and the character behaves all mushy and lovey-dovey.

2006-01-20, 21:47	Link #330
molitar Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	what is the japanese word for... Ok I've watched quite a bit of anime and I notice them say something that sounds like skilrisamus or something like that before they enter the teachers room at school.. Visiting friends and answering parents greeting it seems to be some type of greeting, but I have not been able to find the word searching under references like HI, Hello that I usually see it translated as so I imagine it is a bit deeper than that like most of Japanese words.. Any of you know what the actual word is they are saying and what the actual meaning is?

2006-01-20, 22:27	Link #333
LynnieS Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: China	Do you have an example from a recent series's episode? Without hearing it in person, I would agree with MwyC in "失礼します". It (more or less) means "please excuse my rudeness" - or "excuse me", which I've seen as well - and romanticized, it sounds like "shi-tsu-rei shi-mas". __________________ "If ignorance is bliss, then why aren't more people happy?" -- Misc. Currently listening: Nadda Currently reading: Procrastination for the win! Currently playing: "Quest of D", "Border Break" and "Gundam Senjou no Kizuna". Waiting for: "Shining Force Cross"!

2006-01-20, 23:34	Link #336
LynnieS Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: China	My take from studies: "shitsurei" can act as both a greeting and a farewell, and a more polite and formal form of it is "shitsurei shimasu", which you generally would use to speak with someone at a higher social level like the parents of someone else. "gomen" acts much the same way, but in a different social context; it's less polite and more masculine, IMHO. A "hi" or "hello" wouldn't be a bad translation when done as a greeting, IMHO, because you would care about the accuracy of the context it's being used than the literal translation, which would be - umm, checking my books and assuming it's right - "to lose one's decorum". Source: "Nihongo - A Japanese Approach to Japanese" by Makoto Sugawara-san __________________ "If ignorance is bliss, then why aren't more people happy?" -- Misc. Currently listening: Nadda Currently reading: Procrastination for the win! Currently playing: "Quest of D", "Border Break" and "Gundam Senjou no Kizuna". Waiting for: "Shining Force Cross"!

2006-01-21, 00:42	Link #338
Ledgem Love Yourself Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast USA Age: 38	Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish, and he'll never go hungry. Knock yourself out. Consider bookmarking it if you plan to take Japanese classes. Note that the Japanese also seems to accept romaji. If you can't read hiragana and would rather see the romaji back in results, toggle some of the settings for the dictionary, or use some of the mirrors. By default, some of the mirrors do romaji in the results, and you have to toggle settings for them to display hiragana/katakana. __________________

2006-02-06, 13:46	Link #339
Jump Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Tsundere, etc. char descrive words So I've been noticing the use of words such as tsundere. I am pretty sure they are meant to describe specific personalities of characters. In this case, tsundere was used to describe Tohsaka Rin from fate/stay night. I am wondering the meaning of it? I heard it called "absolute terrority" but I have no idea what that would mean either. At least, not when referring to a human. I heard a few others too. I am curious if people can list the various words with explainations, and/or reference characters if possible. Thanks.

2004-11-19, 23:11	Link #321
Lord Raiden Uber Coffee for da win! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Middle of insanity	ShinUmbra, if you honestly want to learn Japanese and you're serious about it, there's three good ways to learn it. 1. College classes. 2. Audio learning system 3. Tutor. I'm doing the second. I'm using Pimselur's Japanese 1, ie basic japanese and OMG, that's been the best learning system out of the 3 I've tried so far. I tried one I thought would work and it got me started, but didn't help me with the speaking parts or understanding how one word played into another or word orders and the like. Pimsleur's has done that by using a "listen, repeat, practice, review, and quiz on the go" system that really makes you think and I've probubly learned and memorized more japanese in the last month that I've been working with that system than the 9 months with the previous book only system with audio word pronunciation. And that's saying a lot because with my schedule I only get 1 hour a day (my drive home) 3 days a week, and 2 hours a day 2 days a week and 2 days that I can't do any lessons. And even then I'm not using the book, just the audio learning tapes. That's only 7 hours of learning a week PROVIDED that I don't have something else taking up my time on my drive home. On most weeks I'll get between 5-6 hours to study as I won't get a chance to study all 7 of those hours each week and yet I'm already at lesson 11. Heck, once I clear lesson 30 I'm going to get the intermediate lessons and keep pounding away at this. My goal is to be decently fluent verbally by June. I'll worry about learning the Kanji latter when time permits, but for now it doesn't. But like I said, if you're really serious about learning Japanese, try Pimsleur's Japanese 1. It's the best. Plus you can convert the lessons over to MP3 (if you get the cd version) and listen to them on your MP3 player while you're doing work around the house, laying around at home, out walking, etc. If you work better in a classroom environment or one on one rather than audio learning, then go for either 1 or 3, but I highly suggest the Pimsleur's. If it works so well for me, you should be able to pick up Japanese very easily using it.

2004-11-19, 23:28	Link #322
Reaver4k Lucy's "Play Thing" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Age: 37	Hmmm... I have herd those words before, LOL... I'll stick to Spainish Right now

2004-11-19, 23:28	Link #323
MakubeX2 うるとらぺど Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 44	It's better to have a tutor IMO because a language requires practise to master. What the point if you learn the basic but have nowhere to put the language into use. With a native speaker, at least you can engage in a conversation of sorts and have him to point out your mistakes.

2004-11-20, 00:59	Link #325
princess_of_orb Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: in a house...dar	.....i only know a few japanese and they all've been said...so ill stay bak......and keep to english and chinese

2004-11-20, 01:01	Link #326
princess_of_orb Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: in a house...dar	japanese is reali boring 2 learn but fun 2 talk.....makes no sense right.!?!?!?!?!?o well...thre is a thread that has japanese in its with english trnasllation its common japanese something

2004-11-20, 02:58	Link #327
babbito2k annoying white bat Join Date: Jan 2004	Well, I was here... I read this... all I have to say is... auf wiedersehen...

2006-01-20, 21:59	Link #331
MwyC Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 39	shitsurei shimasu - i am going to be rude

2006-01-20, 22:12	Link #332
molitar Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Nope that doesn't sound like it at all.. actually for japanese I would of spelled it wrong.. keep forgetting i sounds like e in japanese when I'm actually writing it. so it would be spelled more like by pronounciation... skelresamus.. almost has the sound of the word Christmas but with that slight rolling r sound that japanese has.

2006-01-20, 22:32	Link #334
Cloudnine ロリ is life~ Join Date: Dec 2005	shi'tsurei shimasu (しつれいします) Polite term used when entering a room. I believe the English equivalent would be "May I come in?"

2006-01-20, 23:18	Link #335
molitar Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Well seen it used a couple times on TMC watching Whisper of the Heart I just finished watching My Neighbor Totoro, Porco Rosso, and Whisper of the Heart. They showed it in dubbed version first than subbed.. Very touching shows. Maybe it was that word in a different dialect perhaps since we all know pronounciations sound different in different regions. Just usually I hear that one sounding more like shee this sounded more like skle ris a mas. And they subbed it on the shows as Hi or hello which just didn't sound right to me since it was used in Whisper of the Heart when they entered the room and when Tsukishima ran out the girl used the same word and left.. Than when Tsukishima went to her friends house her parents said Hi or hello to her and she answered again with the same word.. So it really seems hi or hello would of been wrong since her friend wouldn't of said that on leaving the teachers room chasing after Tsukishima.

2006-01-20, 23:57	Link #337
Kinny Riddle Gone for Good Join Date: Apr 2004	失礼します (shitsurei shimasu) to literally translate would be "to be rude", or rather "please excuse my (apparent) rudeness". Another similar term is お邪魔します (o jama shimasu), "please excuse me for interfering/causing trouble", usually used when being entering a room, whether you are invited or not. Especially when after you knock the door to enter a room, this term is used if you aren't sure if anyone is inside.

2006-02-06, 14:17	Link #340
shadowplay passive observer Join Date: Nov 2004	From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Tsundere (ツンデレ) is a term used by anime fans to describe the attitude of a character, usually a girl. Tsundere expresses itself in two distinct phases. The tsun-tsun phase, in which the character is mean, often violently. In the dere-dere phase, the attitude makes a complete turn to the opposite and the character behaves all mushy and lovey-dovey.