(L) Kamisama Dolls

[mangatron]

Episode 12... edge of your seat entertainment. It seems I continue to be floored as each episode comes out, because I seriously didn't think Hirashiro was going to buy the farm. Not to mention he got kicked by Kuuko, I tell you that girl is not to be trifled with

And was a welcome sight to see Hibino kick that... forgot-his-name. At least she tried instead of crying out for help and cowering away, though I didn't think the guy would have the tazer. I now feel sorry for Kuuko, not only did that tazer change so many hands, but it's kaput now

Great action too. I so hollered the way Utao and Mahiru made their dolls fight, I bet they'd be pulling each others hair if these dolls had any

But the topic of the day seems to be Mahiru's title, is she a antagonist or a yandere or what...I'm going to stand by my original thought, and this girl just wants to be with her beloved, and apparently anyone in her way.... needs to be pushed aside. Because the latter half of this series has only one premier topic at the moment, and that is: the kakashi's heart.

Aki starts it with his "Dolls only kill" line of thought. But Kyohei says that they can do good because they have the heart of the cards a human. Thinking back to ep 06, we see these dolls are made of wood that apparently can interact with a persons most intimate of intimates, so naturally episode 12 shows that by actually having these wooden dolls link up with particular humans, they'll be driven by their train of thought, and ultimately this is how Magatsuhi eventually went berserk, it was feeding off Mahiru's innermost thought, which is in order to be with Kyohei, Hibino has to be dealt with.

So is Mahiru the baddie? Honestly, early on viewers made Aki to be the antagonist. That topic seems to have died down the same way Aki was mysteriously left out of episode 12's battle, heck I jokingly referred to Utao as the protagonist, but you know, when it all comes down to it, Mahiru, Aki, Kyohei and everyone, they're just caught up in this village mess which obviously no one seems to like. Mahiru's misusing her power in a love triangle, Aki is basically wants the village to leave him alone, and I'm sure Kirio would want to get as far away from old man Huyga as he can

Originally Posted by Kanon

[SPOILER="episode 12"]Uwaaaaa! Utao won! First time in the series she wins a fight, isn't it? (I'm not counting her fight against Kirio as she received help from Kyohei). That's all because she had a powerful reason to fight this time around: avenge her cookies' death

There's some truly interesting about this (aside from the laugh I got that Utao only had cookie revenge on her mind). These dolls are in a close link with the Seki's mind, and dare I say while it was willpower that drives the strength of the doll, it was also the mental state of the Seki that had a hand. Sure, Utao's drive to avenge the cookies was so powerful, but over which part of Mahiru's mind? I honestly think Mahiru wasn't fighting Utao seriously because really, Mahiru looks at Utao as incompetent, and presumably a waste of time. So while Utao had her cookie revenge as her motivation, Mahiru had a "get it over with" feeling, which she eventually underestimated Utao and lost.

This scene is important because after losing, Magatsuhi wanted to "live on" and carry out Mahiru's most important desire, pretty much the same way Kukuri reacted to Kyohei's Left Hand ability. I guess Mahiru should have asked Moyako for an extra wire to repair that barrier. What is that wire made out of anyway. It can't be wood...

This was hilarious. I thought something happened to my connection again, but she's just so kooky

The other star of the episode was Kuuko, who singlehandedly freed Aki and Hibino, put an end to diet guy's ambitions - or should I say, his life; and found herself another slave (YOU are going to get raped, dude). She just became one of the most badass female character of the year.

lol Kuuko took the effort to help Aki. There's something going on between them!

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I was wondering why they have not updated the site with episode 12, but it seems they were busy with...
http://www.kamisama-anime.jp/mahiru_maniax/
(； ･`ω･´)

No wonder why. Even after ep 12 aired, I wonder if the preview went up...

But LOL Training With Hibino, Hinako has a new rival

Originally Posted by stuopidget

I remember people saying you can't take this series seriously because of the random non serious moments in the heat of the battle, which I was thinking the opposite since those gaps are nice breathers to take everything in. When a climax comes, the changes in pacing allows you to eat in all the intensity at once going HOLY BATMAN BALLS THIS IS RIDICULOUSLY WIN!!!!!ONE111

Not so much one can't take it seriously, but rather the way this series just does it so perfectly, blending serious moments with moments to laugh at. This series does a good job of it since early on, and I'm enjoying it

Originally Posted by viperdk1

Top episode of the series. I've honestly loved this series since I picked it up - and regardless of what happens in the final episode, this is my anime of Summer 2011. Whether it's the anime of Summer 2011 is questionable (I noticed one of the Summer animes got it's own subforum, after all) - but I haven't seen anything better this season.

Looking at my (small) list of Summer 2011 anime, I have to agree too. This series is the only one that pleased multiple desires of mine, instead of just one or 2, and it kept me on the edge of my connection every week

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Or make it inconclusive enough for a season 2, I mean there's still the Hyuga problem

I like what they've done so far; showing the relationship between Seki and Kakashi. If this series ends on that note, I wouldn't mind, since old man Hygua is a loose end, but it's unfortunate this is only a 13 ep series. Better if there's a little more eps, but if this means leaving out material for another season, why not. Maybe they'll have ep 13 end with that thing in the basement waking up

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

I think the kakashis are bleeding tree syrup. xD

It's wood dipped in... tree sap? At least the blood color isn't green

[Guardian Enzo]

As has been mentioned, a series can have multiple antagonists. This one does, and Mahiru is one of them. But what's interesting about KamiDolls is that all of the antagonists are basically victims, and it's the village that made them what they are. Karakami is the top boss.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, that's my main goal here. I do think it's helpful to see Mahiru from different angles. I will say that by discussing her with you and some others, I have taken notice of her softer side as well, so I thank you for that. For example, I'm not sure I would have noticed how she didn't want Hibino to die if I wasn't going out of my way to find reasons for why people see her as "not that harmful".

Anyway, I've said my piece, so yes, we can move on.

Thank you for saying your piece, though. The whole harmless statement rubbed me the wrong way. My comment about her being a ticking time bomb was fairly accurate. She's not overtly malicious but when set off emotionally she is quite dangerous, even if its by accident. I do count her as an antagonist, as she does antagonize, though the true main antagonist of the series, even for the other antagonists like Aki and Mahiru, is the caste system the town is stuck in.

[FlareKnight]

Well things have gotten pretty crazy and not a bad way to wrap things up. I can't imagine that Aki is going to remain completely uninvolved in this whole thing now that he can move his Kakashi around again. While Magatsuhi is damaged stopping it is going to be tricky with the berserk mode it can do. Still if Kyouhei has taken control of Kukuri through pure rage it won't be that hard to handle this. It's just a delicate situation with Kyouhei and Hibino wrapped up like that. I do wonder though if now the group will have to regroup and try to stop Kukuri if Kyouhei's rage doesn't simmer down after saving Hibino.

Got some high and low points from Mahiru here. Was cool when you thought she had managed to suppress Magatsuhi through pure willpower. Of course then it just went berserk . Still while she has some issues it's clear she doesn't outright want to kill anyone. The girl just doesn't understand what Kyouhei is thinking and wants her wishes to come true. Still her actions can get others killed since she can lose her head.

This is becoming pretty public though. Beams shooting around and kakashi getting flung around.

[Sol Falling]

An antagonist is an opposing force in the story. If Kyouhei is the main character, then in what ways are Aki or Mahiru in fact opposing him?

Aki and Mahiru's greatest desire are to see Kyouhei take his fate into his own hands by rebecoming a Seki. The force which is oppressing Kyouhei, disrupting his life and chaining down his existence, is the village. Though they go against Kyouhei's current intentions, Aki and Mahiru's wish is to empower him, and as of this episode, they even seem to have succeeded. As such, I cannot see them as antagonists in the picture of the story as a whole.

It seems to me that to define Mahiru as an antagonist it is necessary to place excessive weight on her role from Utao or Hibino's perspective. Certainly Mahiru is an antagonist to them. However much it is also possible to talk about multiple 'protagonists' in a story, though, Kyouhei remains the definite center of the story, and you cannot truly define Mahiru or Aki being in opposition to him.

On episode 12 itself:
Kamisama Dolls is impressing me with the raw force of its story. It is still pretty much disposable entertainment, however, insofar as there's nothing I'm really taking away from it that hopes to elevate me in real life.

[KingBoo]

i had the unfair advantage of reading the manga (just a few chapters) and i knew it was good. so i was shocked to see so many complainers/haters in the beginning of this series. as the series progressed...it seems the series has won some favor from this tough crowd.

anyway i like pretty much the whole cast. the twins, the twin's older brother, the accelerator, tazer girl, crazy girl, the damsel in distress, and her dad. i'm sad to see the show is approaching it's final episode. maybe there will be a hope spot for a season 2.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

An antagonist is an opposing force in the story. If Kyouhei is the main character, then in what ways are Aki or Mahiru in fact opposing him?

Aki and Mahiru's greatest desire are to see Kyouhei take his fate into his own hands by rebecoming a Seki. The force which is oppressing Kyouhei, disrupting his life and chaining down his existence, is the village. Though they go against Kyouhei's current intentions, Aki and Mahiru's wish is to empower him, and as of this episode, they even seem to have succeeded. As such, I cannot see them as antagonists in the picture of the story as a whole.

It seems to me that to define Mahiru as an antagonist it is necessary to place excessive weight on her role from Utao or Hibino's perspective. Certainly Mahiru is an antagonist to them. However much it is also possible to talk about multiple 'protagonists' in a story, though, Kyouhei remains the definite center of the story, and you cannot truly define Mahiru or Aki being in opposition to him.

On episode 12 itself:
Kamisama Dolls is impressing me with the raw force of its story. It is still pretty much disposable entertainment, however, insofar as there's nothing I'm really taking away from it that hopes to elevate me in real life.

They are both antagonists in a way because they have both threatened to harm/almost harmed those dear to Kyohei. Also I wouldn't call forcing their own ideas down Kyohei's throat "empowering". They both feel their view is just and right but haven't given one thought to what Kyohei actually wants. Wouldn't be the first time an antagonist felt as if they knew what was best for the protagonist.

[Guardian Enzo]

An antagonist is not only an opposing force. An antagonist can also be someone who represents a threat to the protagonist, whether they intend to or not. In that sense (well, I think in the first sense too in Mahiru's case) Mahiru is certainly an antagonist.

In any case, Karakami is the primary antagonist. Kyouhei certainly has come to realize that - Aki knew it already.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

An antagonist is not only an opposing force. An antagonist can also be someone who represents a threat to the protagonist, whether they intend to or not. In that sense (well, I think in the first sense too in Mahiru's case) Mahiru is certainly an antagonist.

In any case, Karakami is the primary antagonist. Kyouhei certainly has come to realize that - Aki knew it already.

Well put. Aki and Mahiru have threatened the well being of Kyohei and those around him. I also think a lot what makes an antagonist an antagonist is ideals and how they clash. Aki and Mahiru both have ideals that revolve around Kyohei; ideals that he wants no part of. Heck, he doesn't know what he wants. They both want him to be something that he opposes.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

An antagonist is an opposing force in the story. If Kyouhei is the main character, then in what ways are Aki or Mahiru in fact opposing him?

....

However much it is also possible to talk about multiple 'protagonists' in a story, though, Kyouhei remains the definite center of the story, and you cannot truly define Mahiru or Aki being in opposition to him.

If you are asking in what way they are opposing him, well, they are opposing his wishes and his desires. They are forcing their desires and will on him. They currently do not approve of what he has done with himself, and they oppose his state of being.

They have put in harms way his friend and his sister, those he cares about. They are bringing him "back to the village" (in a metaphoric and physical way), which is the ultimate antagonist of the show.

Kyouhei has to confront and try to "defeat" them in order to protect those he cares about and to try to maintain some semblance of normality for himself. They are his "adversaries" from obtaining those goals.

[vansonbee]

Quick question, if anyone here also reading the manga, can you tell me which chapter is parallel with this episode?

[DragoonKain3]

All this talk of antagonists just depends on what 'goal' have you set for Kyouhei to achieve.

I mean, a lot of people here think Kyouhei values being 'normal' as his goal. But from what I see, Kyohei was just running away, not only from his past (Aki's reason), but also from his power and the responsibility that comes along with it (Mahiru's reason). And with this episode, EVEN Kyouhei knows that's what he's doing as he knows he only has the 4 years reprieve, and that he can NEVER truly get away from the village.

I'm not going much into Aki (guy is too sneaky, like pretending not being able to use his doll all this time... who knows what else he has in store), but Mahiru is pretty darn easy to read due to her wearing her heart on her sleeve. She isn't an antagonist for the following reasons...

1) Putting friends/family in danger - people misunderstand this a lot, which boggles the mind when just last episode Kyouhei himself says that Mahiru won't harm Hibino. Sure she threw Hibino this episode, but that was on impulse (her face after she did the act tells it all), and these dolls have shown great mobility that saving her isn't a stretch even if Utao didn't arrive. Heck, he didn't even get mad at her once they landed.

2) forcing desire/will on him - Mahiru asks Kyouhei to return to the village with her. He refuses (stupid git might I add ). Mahiru runs away in tears. Not sure where she forced anything on Kyouhei. Heck, even the kidnapping of Hibino was merely just to interrogate her, rather than using her as a bargaining chip for him to return to the village. XD

3) trying to bring him 'back to the village' - as I said before, Kyouhei already knew there's no escaping. What Mahiru brings up though is important... him being in a position of power, he can actually CHANGE the village, but only if he comes and does it himself. Three guesses on what Kyouhei's gonna try and do after we're done with this season..


Trying to think of an analogy here, but those who read/watched Harry Potter (mainstream enough I hope) would know which character I'm talking about... and that's Snape. Does him being a general A-hole with a capital A, getting in the way of mischief that Harry and co always try to do, and him being extremely strict with not only his potions lessons but also the 'special training' he gave to Harry constitute him being an antagonist? Not in my book, no.

I mean, on first glance, it LOOKS like they're opposing the protagonist... but they really aren't upon deeper inspection.




An on a lighter note, damn, I was so disappointed that Hibino didn't go the way of sensei. Need to... get rid... of main... rival.... Damn, I thought all these comparisons to sensei might have been foreshadowing of Hibino's fate, but I guess it won't be that easy.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

All this talk of antagonists just depends on what 'goal' have you set for Kyouhei to achieve.

I mean, a lot of people here think Kyouhei values being 'normal' as his goal. But from what I see, Kyohei was just running away, not only from his past (Aki's reason), but also from his power and the responsibility that comes along with it (Mahiru's reason). And with this episode, EVEN Kyouhei knows that's what he's doing as he knows he only has the 4 years reprieve, and that he can NEVER truly get away from the village.

I'm not going much into Aki (guy is too sneaky, like pretending not being able to use his doll all this time... who knows what else he has in store), but Mahiru is pretty darn easy to read due to her wearing her heart on her sleeve. She isn't an antagonist for the following reasons...

1) Putting friends/family in danger - people misunderstand this a lot, which boggles the mind when just last episode Kyouhei himself says that Mahiru won't harm Hibino. Sure she threw Hibino this episode, but that was on impulse (her face after she did the act tells it all), and these dolls have shown great mobility that saving her isn't a stretch even if Utao didn't arrive. Heck, he didn't even get mad at her once they landed.

2) forcing desire/will on him - Mahiru asks Kyouhei to return to the village with her. He refuses (stupid git might I add ). Mahiru runs away in tears. Not sure where she forced anything on Kyouhei. Heck, even the kidnapping of Hibino was merely just to interrogate her, rather than using her as a bargaining chip for him to return to the village. XD

3) trying to bring him 'back to the village' - as I said before, Kyouhei already knew there's no escaping. What Mahiru brings up though is important... him being in a position of power, he can actually CHANGE the village, but only if he comes and does it himself. Three guesses on what Kyouhei's gonna try and do after we're done with this season..


Trying to think of an analogy here, but those who read/watched Harry Potter (mainstream enough I hope) would know which character I'm talking about... and that's Snape. Does him being a general A-hole with a capital A, getting in the way of mischief that Harry and co always try to do, and him being extremely strict with not only his potions lessons but also the 'special training' he gave to Harry constitute him being an antagonist? Not in my book, no.

I mean, on first glance, it LOOKS like they're opposing the protagonist... but they really aren't upon deeper inspection.




An on a lighter note, damn, I was so disappointed that Hibino didn't go the way of sensei. Need to... get rid... of main... rival.... Damn, I thought all these comparisons to sensei might have been foreshadowing of Hibino's fate, but I guess it won't be that easy.

Haha, this. Thanks for saving me the effort of typing up a reply post.

[EroKing]

It's because of characters like Mahiru and Kuuko that this series is going to get a good number of sales, they are my heroes for providing such good entertainment

[Soliloquy]

I'm glad I decided to watch this anime. I feel I like this the most out of all the shows. It's unsuspectingly entertaining and exceptional show with nice pacing. It seems the antagonists may oppose the main character, they clearly walk in the grey line and have reasons for doing so. The pure antagonist would be the head of Hyuga but for now, he isn't really in the picture.

This episode was an adrenaline rush most of the episode. I think Kuuko and Mahiru were the key characters to really drive the scenes. Kuuko just being herself, sneaking and hitting Shiba over the head with a golf club, then a short duel with that president guy makes the scenes full of suspense. I'm another one that like Mahiru. Her sudden appearance elevated the whole story into almost non-stop action. With her, it seems the pacing is suddenly rapid. These two characters were most memorable in this episode.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

2) forcing desire/will on him - Mahiru asks Kyouhei to return to the village with her. He refuses (stupid git might I add ). Mahiru runs away in tears. Not sure where she forced anything on Kyouhei. Heck, even the kidnapping of Hibino was merely just to interrogate her, rather than using her as a bargaining chip for him to return to the village. XD

Still Mahiru left Hibino alone knowing Shiba was somewhere nearby tied and she probably knew what he would do. That makes her the antagonist for potential harms she would cause to Hibino.

trying to bring him 'back to the village' - as I said before, Kyouhei already knew there's no escaping. What Mahiru brings up though is important... him being in a position of power, he can actually CHANGE the village, but only if he comes and does it himself. Three guesses on what Kyouhei's gonna try and do after we're done with this season..

True she brings him to change the village but is she doing it for everybody or for herself? If Kyouhei does agree and do what she wanted and then what? If she gets her own way, I think she'll probably get rid of Utao or anyone close to Kyouhei.

Actually she has a resemblance to Minene Uryuu from Mirai Nikki and her personality is sort of like Harlequin from Batman. Either way, she is very psychotic, she will stop at nothing to have her own way. That sounds like she's an antagonist.

[mols]

Anyone who opposes a protagonist is an antagonist. By my definition at least.

Aki killed/murdered some people in the first episode who had nothing to do with their seki problems. And even if they had he still killed them.
And Mahiru is quite aggressive even if she hasn't killed anyone yet. Yep, even if they are not considered "antagonists" by some they are definitely in the darker zone. Even if some of their reasons could seem logical. They should be judged, and properly, not by the village.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Not sure. The staff has made a website for Utao and I think Hibino too, so I think they just have too much free time.

Oh, I hadn't seen those. I have to agree they likely have too much time on their hands then

At least Mahiru is definitely popular with the viewers, as she's currently first in the latest poll for the specials. She is very closely followed by Utao though, so she might fall down to second place by the time it ends. At any rate, with the current number of votes, she's already guaranteed to get a special. A shame the setting of her special is so "normal" compared others (cough Koushiro cough).

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by vansonbee

Quick question, if anyone here also reading the manga, can you tell me which chapter is parallel with this episode?

we're burning through 7 to 8 volumes of manga material, we're not going to get a second season for a LONG time (if they even plan for one)

[Dean_the_Young]

Speculation/possibility musing here.

I don't know the manga series, or how it goes. But it strikes me that next episode would make a great episode for a 'dark' ending/cliff-hanger.

Simply because Kyouhei is a Seki again doesn't mean all is right in the world. His state of mind has yet to be established: we can not, and should not, simply assume that he'll be nice-guy with kick-ass skills, and that everyone will be accepting of this. Being a Seki has been repeatedly tied into Kyouhei's own buried insanity from all those years ago, and bringing one up is very likely to bring both... and that isn't necessarily happy for anyone, except maybe Aki.

Kyouhei is cracking. Which way he falls is going to mean everything... and Aki is undoubtedly going to be influential to the outcome.

The 'worst' that could occur is that Kyouhei, when he wakes up, is convinced to share Aki's views about the Village. Mahiru and Hibino's abduction just proved how dangerous and all-consuming it can be, even when it doesn't intend to be. Mad-Kyouhei could be pushed to Aki's view: to keep this from happening again, the Village needs to be turned into a sinkhole. Kyohei and Aki leave to destroy the village, leaving everyone sympathetic in the city alive, but on a path of rampage and destruction that Kou and Kirio try, but fail, to stop. The village is a sinkhole.

That's the worst. I doubt the season will end on that prospect, with Kyohei gone evil and an impending massacre. What will happen will probably be better.

But better is a relative turn. There are a lot of things that can still be 'worse', and Kyohei's relationship with everyone else is among them.

First and foremost would by Utao. Utao being forcibly, permanently removed as the substitute Seki would be a potential roadblock for her efforts to connect with her brother. It's been pretty apparent for awhile that she's in the city as a Seki to be with her brother, not to hunt Aki. Being a Seki has empowered her in many ways, and enabled her to both mature and not fall under her brother's shadow, to be ignored by him. If she goes to 'pest' to mad-Kyohei, who doesn't hate her but sees her as a hinderance to his superior Seki-ness, that could be a significant step backwards.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

I think the kakashis are bleeding tree syrup. xD

Ah I see they were made in canada ^^
Any news on soundtrack or second series? Really want one of kakashi's song as ring tone on my phone ^^.