Claymore Chapter 119

[haegar]

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

what comes next then? Don't tell me his last source is a brainwashed/resurrected Teresa... *facepalm*

"I am ... brrrrt ..... Teresa-800...All other characters....brrrrt.... will be terminated. Brrrrt. Plot...brrrrt....will be terminated now. brrrrrt. Readers....brrrrt....will be terminated. Hasta Lavista Babeeeeh"

[Demon6666]

I don't know about you but it would be pretty cool if Teresa was resurrected with nausea, defeats all the other resurrected number ones then gets her memory back and later notices the grotesque cocoon that is Clare and Priscilla. i wonder what would she think?hmmm

[Falcor]

Someone had an interesting theory in one of the previous chapter threads that Roxy wasn't resurrected at all; that she is working in cahoots with Dae. This would explain her apparent lack of memory loss and totally nonchalant attitude. Besides, this would give Dae one helluva trump card: the yet-to-be-revealed 3rd zombie #1.

Pure speculation and wishful thinking, but would sure be an intriguing twist.

[MalakTawus]

@rafael

Pris is not the type of girl that attacks people like we saw with Alicia and beth. She only killed riful because dauf opened his trash mouth and allowed clare to hit her as many times she wished. Roxane is a lot clever for attacking pris like that – cassandra said that roxane was the one that called the warriors( so this show up that she is very clever). Although it is true what you are saying, that is just not going to happen.

I have some serious doubts about that,for what i see i have the impression that if Roxy belives that Prissy is strong she'll almost surely provoke her only to have the thrill.

@Nixl

I honestly doubt Cassandra can take Roxanne down. While Roxanne may be psycho, she is just too clever. It seemed like Roxanne had anticipated Cassandra awakening from the beginning. Furthermore, while Hysteria and Cassandra were fighting she seemed to have been surveying the entire situation.

She may not be stronger, but she is certainly more clever and scheming.

You have a good reason to doubt since it seems that Yagi is really trying to estabilish Roxy as the main enemy (between the 3 monsters, i mean)....but it's also 100% possible that Roxy is understimating Cassy A LOT......anyway i doubt that Roxy knew that Cassy would awaken (nothing from what is shown in the manga indicates that she predicted this turn of events....), and i especially doubt that Roxy can defeat Cassy at least without awakening herself.


@creb

While anything's possible, for now, I'm firmly onboard with the Dae is just a mad scientist. The type of mad scientist that Hououin Kyouma could only dream of emulating.

How dare you!!! What Kyouma did is 100000000 times more amazing that what Dae will EVER do......even if he has no idea how he did it,lol.....

[FlavorOfLife]

Regarding Clare:

I don't see why Clare should return. Her power level would reach somewhere close to, if not on par with, Priscilla's level (beyond AO) if she returned. Everyone else would be pretty much useless. Not to mention, her return would herald Priscilla's return. Having that level of power (even if weakened from starvation) in an antagonist would sideline the entire organization storyline. The current 3 number ones, even if they awakened would be a joke unless they too reached beyond AO power levels.

The only one that could cause Clare to wake up would be Raki and he's not in any trouble at all. Otherwise, if one of the dragon tribe showed up, then Clare waking would make sense storywise. Other than those, i expect Clare to wake only when the others reach a closer level of power to an AO so at least the rest of the cast will not be jokes.

As for Dae, undoubtedly he has safeguards. He is after all backed by an entire faction outside the island. Possibly his authority (in secret) exceeds anyone else on the island. However since Teresa's head is in someone and that someone already distinergrated, the backup is not going to be her. Possibly advanced new form Abyssal feeders.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Someone had an interesting theory in one of the previous chapter threads that Roxy wasn't resurrected at all; that she is working in cahoots with Dae. This would explain her apparent lack of memory loss and totally nonchalant attitude. Besides, this would give Dae one helluva trump card: the yet-to-be-revealed 3rd zombie #1.

Pure speculation and wishful thinking, but would sure be an intriguing twist.

You mean this? We do not know which Claymores Rubel saw (other than Cassandra), we don't know what happened to Rubel (seriously, besides Clare I would like to see him the most, I know he's up to something nasty and will make things more interesting). We also don't know what this detour Dae took was all about.As I've said in one of my previous posts in this thread, I doubt that Yagi gave us this information for no reason. I'm sure he will explain it to us later and I'm really curious about it. Although, him not showing the lab where Deneve and the rest where going make me worry a bit. I was sure (and eager) to see it but ended up being disappointed.

[haegar]

not sure if Rubel would commit himself to any sort of action at this point: if you think about it a moment, everything is going down in his favour, he can lean back and watch with a smile as disaster "awakens"

[shschesschamp]

I really am not a big fan of this chapter Yagi does give good background information about the characters, but come on does it have to be for every character, Yagi didn't have to give background information for Roxanne but he did anyway who cares about who these former number 1's were in their previous days, all this crap does is take up valuable pages, keep using the same formula for the Rigaldo vs. Clare theme all battle pages with good fight scenes, and straight to the point.

[limao]

Hey Return Clare dude don't do anything hasty or Nixl will say its me. For confusing me with you, honestly.
I suggest Nixl do some research (ips, grammar, php's user agent) then he comes apologize for attributing me your stuff. :\

[Gooral]

@haegar
Well, now that Cassandra has awakened it is advantageous to him but I'm not sure he could know it would happen and he's not the type of guy who sits around waiting for things to happen. He stages events himself and manipulates people so that his goals are reached. He also often comments on things and is in the center of shitstorm but we haven't seem him for couple of chapters. To me it's odd.

[rafael1932]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

I have some serious doubts about that,for what i see i have the impression that if Roxy belives that Prissy is strong she'll almost surely provoke her only to have the thrill.

I think that she would love her first, get her power like she have done until now( don’t ask me explanations about this), play with her mind after and try to kill her by some sort of twisted plan. I know, I know, we are talking about pris but let me dream…

----//----

About clare.

I simple don’t see how clare can win against pris, after this arc is done. This is a dark manga so a price must be paid in order to her to win against someone way more powerful than her.
I think that the blob right now or clare full awakening are viable options. Also she could use a mental manipulation like raftela but she has not mental abilities like her ( it’s a good scenario but clare simple can’t use that). If clare uses the power of the destroyer, I will feel like been cheated, after all this is revenge and she must use her own hands and not external help.

Well, let’s hope that yagi pulls off a good twist like he have done with miria return

[Friday]

Originally Posted by Gooral

Well, now that Cassandra has awakened it is advantageous to him but I'm not sure he could know it would happen and he's not the type of guy who sits around waiting for things to happen. He stages events himself and manipulates people so that his goals are reached. He also often comments on things and is in the center of shitstorm but we haven't seem him for couple of chapters. To me it's odd.

my opinion is....
probaly wants to know how long the resserection last for. This is based on Cassandra old wounds reopening and Hysteria not(or lack of) winning the fight against Miria.
So when the next time it happens he will know what to do.

[MalakTawus]

@rafael

I think that she would love her first, get her power like she have done until now( don’t ask me explanations about this), play with her mind after and try to kill her by some sort of twisted plan. I know, I know, we are talking about pris but let me dream…

Yeah,keep dreaming lol.
No matter how strong Roxy is,i bet all i have that she is no match for Prissy (and never will be),not even close.

About clare.

I simple don’t see how clare can win against pris, after this arc is done. This is a dark manga so a price must be paid in order to her to win against someone way more powerful than her.

Nha,imo Claire doesn't need the destroyer help at all once she'll unlock her full power,infact imo Claire is the only living being with a potential superior to even Prissy.
Also there would be nothing strange if Claire can defeat Prissy since Claire is "one of a kind" and is not comparable to anyone else in Claymore's universe.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

I honestly doubt Cassandra can take Roxanne down. While Roxanne may be psycho, she is just too clever. It seemed like Roxanne had anticipated Cassandra awakening from the beginning. Furthermore, while Hysteria and Cassandra were fighting she seemed to have been surveying the entire situation.

She may not be stronger, but she is certainly more clever and scheming.

I agree that Cassandra can't take Roxanne down -- more and more, Cassandra strikes me as basically a much stronger Yuma. Her naivete and compassion failed to me her see the danger Roxanne really was.

She could also be compared to Miria or even Priscilla, in that the latter's lack of experience contributed to her downfall. While Cassandra has definitely earned her number, I don't get the impression she has had to fight all that hard for it, whereas Roxanne, is the exact opposite in that she has built herself up.

I mentioned Miria in that her niceness is what caused her downfall - for example, when she was fighting Roxanne, did she even reach her before the others got her? It's tough to have an estimate between the two because the other soldiers were in the way, but why didn't Cassie at least repel them? If she didn't want to fight them, she could have, like Miria, merely batted them away.

Really, as a whole, Roxanne is indeed better then Cassandra -- even if not in terms of yoki, power, or even just fighting as a whole...Cassandra has just made too many mistakes against her, and that's what has cost her her life. It's definitely a case of mind over muscle on this one.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by rafael1932

----//----

About clare.

I simple don’t see how clare can win against pris, after this arc is done. This is a dark manga so a price must be paid in order to her to win against someone way more powerful than her.
I think that the blob right now or clare full awakening are viable options. Also she could use a mental manipulation like raftela but she has not mental abilities like her ( it’s a good scenario but clare simple can’t use that). If clare uses the power of the destroyer, I will feel like been cheated, after all this is revenge and she must use her own hands and not external help.

Well, let’s hope that yagi pulls off a good twist like he have done with miria return

Simple. Clare doesn't need to fight again Pris, if she can realize (I think this was what Rafaella described as her mistake, this "suicidal kill at all cost" mentality) that it's ok not to kill her as long as she is neutralized.

I root for a return of Pre-Blob Clare, leaving Pris encased inside the destroyer.
The destroyer (combination of Rafaella and Luciella awakened) should be more than enough to at least contain Pris indefinitely, or at least until Clare and the Ghosts have powered up enough to move on the Dragon continent arc (in which case Pris's eventual return would then match the upgraded power level, and be more interesting rather than making everybody feel like mice in front of a cat).

Akin to the discussion she had mentally with Rafaella, I think that now that Rafaela (and partially Luciela's) memories are in Clare, as well as possibly the essence of Irene and Teresa, there could be a very interesting discussion between all 5 people within the blob, to finally have a slightly powered up Clare emerge still human, having left the Destroyer to contain Pris for now.

This would let Clare join the fight and possibly save the day at the last moment (when The Ghosts and Miria would be out of options, having defeated Hysteria (and Roxy having probably killed Cas) to face awakened Roxy.
Cue in the end of the org and the Dragon continent chapter when Dae's end plan finally is revealed, but also Rubel's.

If you think this should not happen, well then guess what. Clare is the hero of a shonen manga. This is what happens, logically. The Hero saves the day.

Holy city first arc: Clare partially awakens for the 1st time as she pushes herself to save the day
Slashers Arc: Clare uses her trained Yoki sensing to save the group
Ophelia Arc: Clare uses her newfound power (technique + irene's arm) to defeat Ophelia
Witch's Maw Arc: Clare uses her Yoki tuning/ sensing to not only save Jean but to help Galatea and Jean defeat Dauf. She even lands a blow on Riful.
Pieta Arc: Clare Half - Awakens and defeats one of the strongest AB's ever seen, ex #2 Rigaldo

After the 7 year break: Clare is one of the strongest Ghosts and we have yet to see her fighting at her full capacity. She was pretty much just showing off with Agatha.

So yeah, unless Yagi has decided to completely do away with Clare because he doesn't know what to do with her anymore, I expect a big flashback / blob Arc to happen within 3-4 chapters, as a prelude to the New Dragon continent arc.

She could also be compared to Miria or even Priscilla, in that the latter's lack of experience contributed to her downfall. While Cassandra has definitely earned her number, I don't get the impression she has had to fight all that hard for it, whereas Roxanne, is the exact opposite in that she has built herself up.

I think that is the thing that reveals that Roxy is more techniques than raw power. Her progression has been steady but slow, whereas someone with such an enormous raw power like Pris jumped from nobody to #2 in a flash.
It's not to say that Roxanne is not very strong, but that her strength depends on the techniques she learned (stole?), not her raw power.

[Nixl]

I do not know Elandyll, I think if Claire is coming out of the blob, so is Priscilla. I honestly think some type of death-match is inevitable by this point. One of them has to die. The difference is that perhaps Claire will have a chance this time against Priscilla.

Also, while Claymore is a shonen I do believe it is also marketed as a tragedy. Therefore, I do not know whether all tenets of shounen law have to be followed.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

@rafael
@Nixl
You have a good reason to doubt since it seems that Yagi is really trying to estabilish Roxy as the main enemy (between the 3 monsters, i mean)....but it's also 100% possible that Roxy is understimating Cassy A LOT......anyway i doubt that Roxy knew that Cassy would awaken (nothing from what is shown in the manga indicates that she predicted this turn of events....), and i especially doubt that Roxy can defeat Cassy at least without awakening herself.

While that is a possibility, I think Yagi is on a roll with Roxanne. Perhaps she is underestimating Cassandra, but she is just so relaxed every scene we she her in.

Consider, Miria even with the Phantom was having some trouble keeping up with the twins. Roxanne non-lethally cut up the twins to play with later and she did not need a technique to augment her speed like Miria. So far, Hysteria and Cassandra have relied on their techniques. Roxanne has not even showed off one technique and she casually annihilated the twins in combat. Her base speed and strength is enough to over-come the twins, something Miria could not do. Once Roxanne actually decides to use one of the many techniques she has in stock I doubt there is anything Cassandra can do. Then again, some of those techniques are sword styles rather than actual abilities, but we do not know just how many she has.

Of the three, Hysteria appears to be the weakest.

[Shiek927]

Pfff, when it comes too all this "shonen" stuff, my thoughts on all that is here for those interested - one of my better debates with you Malak (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...al#post3099444)

And Nixl, is not "I think if Claire is coming out of the blob, so is Priscilla", we know it's like that; Galatea made it plain for us. What happened happened because Claire cannot beat her, which is why she's in the situation to begin with.

And while I root for the return of 'pre-blob Claire' as well Elandyll, I don't see how Raciella can contain Priscilla since Priscilla is more powerful then her - while we don't know how strong for sure the later is (all we got from Riful was that she kept getting 'stronger and stronger'), we know Priscila is stronger then 2xAO (oh gosh, I'm joining the math/acronym club), whereas Raciella could only just be that.

The rest I can't really say I agree with at all (not that I'm criticizing), since I'm just not of the same opinions (No Dragons or leaving continent for me unless it's a seperate story, no Prissy dying unless its near the end (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=740), etc...)

[Nixl]

Wow, I was rabidly anti-Teresa, still am, but I feel like I did less to tone down my word choice back then. That was a blast from the past.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Wow, I was rabidly anti-Teresa, still am, but I feel like I did less to tone down my word choice back then. That was a blast from the past.

Hehe; I'm both -- while I have lost much of my drive from the old days, I've definitely 'toughened up' in the way I've expressed myself. My nickname was 'goody-two-shoes' back in 2009; in comparison to now, It probably feels like I almost did a 180' since then.

[MalakTawus]

@Shiek

Pfff, when it comes too all this "shonen" stuff, my thoughts on all that is here for those interested - one of my better debates with you Malak (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...al#post3099444)

Hehehe,i remember those debates,good posts indeed (IMO).


@Nixl

While that is a possibility, I think Yagi is on a roll with Roxanne. Perhaps she is underestimating Cassandra, but she is just so relaxed every scene we she her in.

Consider, Miria even with the Phantom was having some trouble keeping up with the twins. Roxanne non-lethally cut up the twins to play with later and she did not need a technique to augment her speed like Miria. So far, Hysteria and Cassandra have relied on their techniques. Roxanne has not even showed off one technique and she casually annihilated the twins in combat. Her base speed and strength is enough to over-come the twins, something Miria could not do. Once Roxanne actually decides to use one of the many techniques she has in stock I doubt there is anything Cassandra can do. Then again, some of those techniques are sword styles rather than actual abilities, but we do not know just how many she has.

Of the three, Hysteria appears to be the weakest.

I respect your opinion but i don't agree with it.
First of all i wouldn't describe Roxy's last expressions as "relaxed"...on the contrary she seems to be more on the "crazy" side imo,but oh well,i guess different person may have diferent impressions.

BUT i surely don't agree on what you said about Miria.
I have already said it in the past,but there is an HUGE difference between the approach used by Miria against the twins and the approach that instead Roxy used.
It's true that Roxy fought without wanting to kill the twins,but sure as hell she didn't care at all to hurt them badly.If Miria also fought with that approach she would have easily cut all their limbs in a few seconds.......so no,it's not fair put the two fights on the same plane.

Also i wouldn't be so sure about Hysty being the weakest, afterall Miria is an opponent not even comparable to the other rebels and i doubt that Roxy or Cassy would be able to defeat Miria easily (especially since she's determined to risk everything in this fight,even her humanity).

Now that i think about it,it's true that the 3 monsters are the more probable to awaken,but if we simply look at the actual situation from an objective point of view,Miria is the one that is the closest to awaken.....it that happens that would create an incredible scenario!