[Manga] Naruto Chapter 559 Discussion

[Shining Celebi]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Many chapters ago i wrote this same explanation, because i couldn't think of anything else. But it seems to be a weak explanation compared to the idea of Madara controlling Nagato.

I think there is a better explanation for Nagato not using genjutsu. He and Naruto are Uzumaki, they inherited the physical powers/yang-based chakra of the Sage like the Senju did. The Uchiha inherited the mind/yin-based chakra. Like Madara explained, the Sage used the yin chakra to create form and the yang chakra to make it real. The Mizukage also says yin chakra is associated with genjutsu. So because Naruto and Nagato don't have this yin chakra naturally, they are very bad at genjutsu and not naturally suited for it, even with the Rinnegan.

The Rinnegan should be like the Sharingan in this sense. The Sharingan can see all taijutsu and copy it, but it doesn't mean that Sasuke can copy the movements of the world's best taijutsu user and become as good as him, it gives him the potential to do it, but he still has to put in a lot of hard work. So Nagato has the potential to be a genjutsu user, but he would really have to work at it. Although, it was said that the Rinnegan only gave the user the ability to use the five elements, so maybe it doesn't help at all with yin/yang matters. Kishimoto still needs to explain the details.

[bigdawg316]

I have a quick question but its just a theory.

Why did Kabuto need Muu to summon Madara? Perhaps Muu was the first to use impure world resurrection, and he had a connection to madara.
Muu says It can't be, this next summoning is... and the next part says you... you must be... i guess we all assume that muu is saying that, but we dont see anything in the picture. then he says whoever's behind the jutsu blah blah blah That they use even you...
i mean im probably wrong
Also, the Former Kage's were giving them info about the enemy while they were fighting. at the beginning of 558, kabuto says Before they had a chance to say anything troublesome or unnecessary, it was a good thing his clone sealed him.
idk, an idea?

[hamstar]

Uchiha Madara died ages ago before Nagato was even born so I'm not sure how Madara even knows Nagato unless Nagato had an reincarnation jutsu that allowed himself to be reborn in Jiraiya/Naruto's time. I guess this reincarnation jutsu would also explain how Madara is dead but is also reincarnated and alive as the masked man in the present. In the manga world the possibilities are endless.

[mrShady]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

He is Uzumaki as his mother was. Every clan in the narutoverse would be degenerate from inbreeding if they had childern only iside the clan. Take for example the 2 sons of the sage, their sons were only half Uchiha and half Senju by your logic.

If I remember correctly your part of a clan from the fathers side. Thus Naruto is not an Uzumaki by that logic, add to that his blond hair while Uzumaki members all have red hair, which is their trademark feature.
Even if by lineage he's part of a clan without the clans trademarks (good at sealing, the red hair and the extraordinary life potent chakra (Naruto was never said to have special chakra just a lot of chakra)) you can hardly call him an Uzumaki. Thus he can hardly boast he's more related to sage.
Regardless of all this it's been many ages when the sage was alive and by now any genes of his bloodline should have faded beyond recognizition.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Why did Madara expect to be resurrected by Nagato? Why would he expect Nagato to follow his orders? Why is it that Nagato doesn't remember that his eyes were transplanted when he was a child? Why did he turn against his teacher Jiraiya? Too many "indications" in my opinion.

It's impossible to speculate about Nagato's reasonings since we don't know his entire life story. Until we know more about what he has done or what has been done to him we can only judge his reasonings by his character.
And personally he did not act the part of someone who was manipulated by a genjutsu or some other technique.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Many chapters ago i wrote this same explanation, because i couldn't think of anything else. But it seems to be a weak explanation compared to the idea of Madara controlling Nagato.

It's the only thing I can think off that makes some sense. If his genjutsu ability was sealed he would have noticed and would not work together with the guy who sealed it.

@bigdawg316
Muu was ordered by Kabuto to summon Madara. Kabuto did the same a couple of chapters ago when the 7 swordsmen of the mist were summoned. Those ninja's that performed the summoning had nothing to do with the swordsmen.
But I dont know why he summoned Madara to that particular battlefield, he probably has some hidden reason. Should be interesting to find out.

[Kallen4life]

he likely wants Madara to capture Naruto

too bad - he'd be better off having Madara guard himself - otherwise Itachi'll own him fast

[mrShady]

Probably, but the original Naruto isn't there. Though is likely to release that particular clone and go straight towards them.

Yeah I wonder now how that will go. Maybe Sasuke kills/fights Kabuto first? Or Itachi and Sasuke meet up.

[Kallen4life]

yeah, I think Sasuke will somehow factor into the Itachi/Kabuto confrontation, otherwise that fight would be over real quick and Itachi can also sharinhax Kabuto into releasing Edo Tensei, ending edo!Madara (that just won't do)


what if Sasuke kills Kabuto, but without making him end Edo Tensei first ... ? ^^

[mrShady]

I think that might actually be the most likely. However then what is Itachi's role?
Him fighting Sasuke again just to prove Sasuke has improved.... Seems pointless.

[james0246]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Kabuto and Itachi fight, Kabuto will win. Specifically, Orochimaru has to fully enter the game (he and Sasuke have unfinished business...plus if even a version of him exists in the ether, I expect he'll find a way back someday), and the only way that is going to happen is if Itachi frees him. Consequently, Kabuto needs to defeat Itachi so that Sasuke can fight the complete Orochimaru.

...Or at least that is what I want to see.

[Kallen4life]

I don't want to see Edo Tensei end, but I don't see how Kabutomaru or Orochimaru or w/e can beat Itachi .. they couldn't when he was alive, half-blind from MS and with a mortal disease .. and they can't now when he's an immortal zombie, spamming MS like he has EMS himself ^^ and with an extra Susanoo attack

something has to happen to throw a wrench into Itachi's plans (otherwise Kabutomaru and ET end too fast) - most likely I see is Sasuke ruining everything as usual



and I definitely don't want to ever see Orochimaru again - sorry, his time is past, no more creepy pedo-ness, Kabutomaru is doing just fine playing the 2-nd baddy

besides, EMS Sasuke will own Orochimaru (full strength or not) easily (I'm no Sasuke-fanboy, far from it, but there's just no way .. Orochimaru is resourceful, very hard to kill, a lot of variety and tricks, but he's not the very top-tier and never was .. he basically has nothing against even a regular sharingan of a skilled user, much less MS or EMS)

[farhan]

i just wonder...
kakashi once said that behind the mask was madara...
how just kakashi really sure about it?
so as itachi said same thing...

kakashi shows that he has little power to manipulate space when fighting deidara...
it is just similiar to tobi right now...
would tobi be obito?
kakashi have the left...
and tobi is on the right..
would that be possible?

if tobi is shisui..
why would shisui give his eye to itachi?
im thinking that when he know his life is on the edge because he unable to stop tobi...
he gives his right eye to itachi so that in a decade future itachi can use it again for something...
shisui also said to itachi "a true shinobi was one who protected the village from within its own shadow"...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by james0246

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Kabuto and Itachi fight, Kabuto will win. Specifically, Orochimaru has to fully enter the game (he and Sasuke have unfinished business...plus if even a version of him exists in the ether, I expect he'll find a way back someday), and the only way that is going to happen is if Itachi frees him. Consequently, Kabuto needs to defeat Itachi so that Sasuke can fight the complete Orochimaru.

...Or at least that is what I want to see.

One thing to take into account as far as Itachi and Kabuto are concerned is that the author wanks to Itachi almost as bad as for Minato so whatever happen I find incredibly doubtful Itachi will not succeed somehow. Considering what his character has been like I think we can expect a last sacrifice to save the Alliance.

It's doubtfull the Alliance can stop Edo Madara right now, both power and story-wise. Only Naruto has a shot and he's tired and technically not there since Tobi is getting to him.
So the only one who can save them at the moment is Itachi thanks to Genjutsu in order to stop Edo Tensei. It's the simplest solution to a lot of loose ends : all the Edo (including Itachi) are removed from the board, Kabuto may still be alive but considerably weakened without his army of zombie and ready to go after Sasuke (and probably suffer for it) or to be taken off by Tobi (who had him full of Zetsu spores).
It can also remove the Alliance and Madara from the equation, the former too pounded by the later who can still be called forth in the future since Tobi knows Edo Tensei now (and possibly Rinne-Tensei as well).

With all those players out of the game, the last remaining would be Naruto and Bee vs. Tobi and his 6 paths (assuming Tobi has completely taken them over and if not that would give a reason for Naruto to survive the onslaught) and Sasuke vs. his new wardrobe.
In option we could have Madara vs. Tobi if he's a twisted Pinocchio wanting to become the real one, everybody vs. the Juubi/Juubi Jinchuuriki and of course Naruto vs. Sasuke.

[Kallen4life]

^ that (Itachi dispelling all of ET, inc himself & edo!Madara) is plausible (I mean otherwise edo!Madara just lays waste to the Alliance), except that I'm sure people want edo!Madara to stick around .. he's the best thing to happen to the manga in a long time

and this

since Tobi knows Edo Tensei now

what ? when did that happen ? You mean because Kabuto explained to him a few things (and he likely lied) Tobi can now do ET ? I don't know about that

possibly Rinne-Tensei as well

that's something to consider, but if he really had the Rinnegan and gave it to Nagato - why not use it himself on hairy Madara ? there're probably consequences, like the user dying or something .. or by giving it he meant that he's Nagato's biological father, i.e. strong Uchiha father + Uzumaki mother = Rinnegan child



but you're right about Kishi being an Itachi-fanboy .. it warms my heart a little bit (being one myself) .. probably has to do with Itachi making it high in the latest popularity poll (afaik 5 or 6)

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

I don't want to see Edo Tensei end, but I don't see how Kabutomaru or Orochimaru or w/e can beat Itachi .. they couldn't when he was alive, half-blind from MS and with a mortal disease .. and they can't now when he's an immortal zombie, spamming MS like he has EMS himself ^^ and with an extra Susanoo attack

Well Itachi has to be careful not to kill Kabuto before he can force him to cancel Edo Tensei because if he does, the jutsu is stuck on auto-pilot with no way to quickly end it. That means he can't simply go wild with Susanoo, Amaterasu or any other lethal jutsu. Even though that might give Kabuto some leverage, I'd still agree Itachi holds a pretty big advantage (Tsukuyomi alone is incredibly powerful). The x-factor here is Kabuto's preparation and whether or not he anticipated any zombies possibly escaping his control.

Originally Posted by Hunter

One thing to take into account as far as Itachi and Kabuto are concerned is that the author wanks to Itachi almost as bad as for Minato so whatever happen I find incredibly doubtful Itachi will not succeed somehow. Considering what his character has been like I think we can expect a last sacrifice to save the Alliance.

Originally, I thought that Kabuto was planning to use whoever was in the last coffin against Itachi and that Itachi would fail against him, but instead he brought Madara out to the battlefield. In addition to being incredibly strong, I wouldn't be surprised if he was powerful enough to undo Edo Tensei seals, pretty much voiding the victories the alliance have won so far. So yeah, it'll probably come down to Itachi having to save the day

[Ero-Senn1n]

Now that Edo-Madara is in the game we can hopefully see the first named good guy die. Until now it was really difficult to take this war 100% seriously, since nobody of the named characters died. Anko, Yamato, Samui still can make it out alive if Kishimoto decides so. Danzou's 2 henchmen were never really among the good guys. So now that Gaara has plot shield, we have a Naruto-clone and the old rock kage to be killed. It was strange that Kishimoto didn't kill off anyone until now, since in the past he showed he is willing to kill important characters like Jiraiya or Asuma. I guess the reason is that he kills off a good character only with a good reason, and until now he didn't have a reason to do so.

[octaviahawk]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Now that Edo-Madara is in the game we can hopefully see the first named good guy die. Until now it was really difficult to take this war 100% seriously, since nobody of the named characters died. Anko, Yamato, Samui still can make it out alive if Kishimoto decides so. Danzou's 2 henchmen were never really among the good guys. So now that Gaara has plot shield, we have a Naruto-clone and the old rock kage to be killed. It was strange that Kishimoto didn't kill off anyone until now, since in the past he showed he is willing to kill important characters like Jiraiya or Asuma. I guess the reason is that he kills off a good character only with a good reason, and until now he didn't have a reason to do so.

Here here! The Naruto plot always gets better with a character death! Sad but true

[Kallen4life]

yeah, Asuma's and Jiraiya's deaths were quite well done

Itachi's + the revelation as well


hell, even Sasori's, Deidara's (nvm Sasuke's asspull), Kisame's (especially) were all good


unless Kishi is sure he can make it good and believable then he shouldn't do it, as much as I'd like to see one

[ntherblast]

Originally Posted by farhan

i just wonder...
kakashi once said that behind the mask was madara...
how just kakashi really sure about it?
so as itachi said same thing...

kakashi shows that he has little power to manipulate space when fighting deidara...
it is just similiar to tobi right now...
would tobi be obito?
kakashi have the left...
and tobi is on the right..
would that be possible?

if tobi is shisui..
why would shisui give his eye to itachi?
im thinking that when he know his life is on the edge because he unable to stop tobi...
he gives his right eye to itachi so that in a decade future itachi can use it again for something...
shisui also said to itachi "a true shinobi was one who protected the village from within its own shadow"...

Wasnt he the 4th hokages student and didnt the 4th hokage know who unleashed the 9 tails?

[Shiryuu]

There is no way for Itachi to win against Kabuto. Kabuto can simply dispel edo tensei. Shisui's eye only stops Itachi from doing what Kabuto wants him to do. The only reason he hasn't done it yet is most likely because it would affect all the other zombies too.

[octaviahawk]

Nah dude, Itachi is the most BAD ASS NINJA...EVER!

He can pretty much do anything with his "sharin'hax" as someone called it, because Itachi is just fly like that.

Kabuto is so DEAD!

Gah. I'm such a rabid Itachi fangirl....