The anime industry's problem of excessive fanservice

[Eisdrache]

Can't we just make one big thread to collect all of MisaoFan's questions?

[solomon]

Don't even need to read this.

Just like I stop expecting anything groundbreaking to come from Disney anymore, nor do I expect Japan to stop making shows bursting with service. They serve a very distinct audience. If you don't like it (which I don't) then stay the hell away from it.

I don't like it that much either (every once in a while I have a guilty pleasure moment tho) but you might as well lobby the San Fernando Valley to stop making pornos. Sex sells and as long as the industry is strapped for cash as it is, it's gonna work what ever the hell kinda angle or gimmick it can so get used to it or get off the bus.

[Marcus H.]

One really shouldn't be surprised to see fanservice in anime series.
Now when people say that anime nowadays is all about fanservice, that's the time to say "bullcrap".

[Undertaker]

Why are these thread keep popping up? As a fan since 80s when I was little, anime has not changed in turn of service. Have people never seen Lupin the 3rd, or City Hunter, or Cats Eyes, or Dirty Pairs and Cutie Honey?

The only thing that really change was the decrease of OVAs due to increase of late night anime slots which leads to increase demand of source material. Shounen and Shoujo are always going to get their adaptions. But once you get into LN, and seinen the fan service is pretty much unavoidable since both genre are mainly caters to 18+ males that was once fulfilled by OVA.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

Why are these thread keep popping up? As a fan since 80s when I was little, anime has not changed in turn of service. Have people never seen Lupin the 3rd, or City Hunter, or Cats Eyes, or Dirty Pairs and Cutie Honey?

The only thing that really change was the decrease of OVAs due to increase of late night anime slots which leads to increase demand of source material. Shounen and Shoujo are always going to get their adaptions. But once you get into LN, and seinen the fan service is pretty much unavoidable since both genre are mainly caters to 18+ males that was once fulfilled by OVA.

Well, maybe tougher regulation of "who gets to do something beyond doujins" would help solve the fanservice problem. It may lead to a temporary loss of revenue but it can also force artists to adapt. A simple idea I head was to create incentives for "clean artists", or artists who is not associated with hentai let it be working as an artist for a h-doujin circle or worked in making eroge character designs. They will be more likely to become mangaka and get better pay rates for their trouble.

This is what makes the difference between the western and eastern side. Sure artist pool over here is smaller but at least they can proudly admit few have ever took up the oldest trade with the pen. I learned this while getting commissions for fanart in a minicon as none of the artists there knew how to do adult artwork.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

Why are these thread keep popping up? As a fan since 80s when I was little, anime has not changed in turn of service. Have people never seen Lupin the 3rd, or City Hunter, or Cats Eyes, or Dirty Pairs and Cutie Honey?

The only thing that really change was the decrease of OVAs due to increase of late night anime slots which leads to increase demand of source material. Shounen and Shoujo are always going to get their adaptions. But once you get into LN, and seinen the fan service is pretty much unavoidable since both genre are mainly caters to 18+ males that was once fulfilled by OVA.

They pop up periodically because there's always an incoming new set of eyeballs who thought all of anime was localized Pokemon or Dragonball (i.e. "cartoons are for children!") and are surprised to discover that adults (late teens and 20-somethings) like material for .... adults. And adults are the primary market for late night anime (which is most of what we see here).

Heck, I still have to respond to the occasional "D&D... isn't that Satan worship? My church had a seminar on it" nonsense and its been about 40 years of punching holes in that "foolish meme".

[Marcus H.]

A simple idea I head was to create incentives for "clean artists", or artists who is not associated with hentai let it be working as an artist for a h-doujin circle or worked in making eroge character designs. They will be more likely to become mangaka and get better pay rates for their trouble.

I don't think that would be fair to Maybe, who debuted as an h-mangaka and is moving on to all-ages manga like Tasogare Otome x Amnesia. This move might also cripple the industry of doujins because there's little to no fresh blood to mix into the industry. Remember that many famous artists in anime had experiences with mature works (see TVTropes article).

There are also some famous artists who have worked with both mature and all-ages works like Noizi Itou (Shakugan no Shana, Nanatsuiro Drops, Haruhi Suzumiya, Another and Alice Parade, just to name a few).

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I don't think that would be fair to Maybe, who debuted as an h-mangaka and is moving on to all-ages manga like Tasogare Otome x Amnesia. This move might also cripple the industry of doujins because there's little to no fresh blood to mix into the industry. Remember that many famous artists in anime had experiences with mature works (see TVTropes article).

There are also some famous artists who have worked with both mature and all-ages works like Noizi Itou (Shakugan no Shana, Nanatsuiro Drops, Haruhi Suzumiya, Another and Alice Parade, just to name a few).

Doujin industry is fine, just don't come from H works or you will have to really impress the publishers to get a pass. At the moment, any eroge/doujin/pixiv artist who would work for slightly more pay and a chance at fame could get picked up LN authors who needs someone to draw for them.

And lesser known game developers already sign artists who have potential by offering much better salaries and thus don't have to do too much in the way of hentai. Case in point Tsunako.

[C.A.]

Sex is in every corner of media, its a fact that sex sells.

But if you compare anime to any other form of animation in the world, it is very obvious that anime sells sex alot more.

Western media seem to have lots of sex scenes, shower horror scenes or just boobs in general, but you don't see characters animated to show bounce or panty shot camera angles and other suggestive scenes.

There is no argument, fanservice is prominent in anime, considering a large number of the productions out now are targeting otaku. This is one major problem that anime is facing, alot of studios are trying to make money out of its niche market instead of expanding their target audience.

[solomon]

Urrr duuuurrrr, tv audiences are shrinking why risk money when you can go for a sure thing.

Why do you think western tv is awash in that reality tv nonsense.

Look too all those who think it's a problem. I agree with you IT IS. But the anime industry isn't LEAGUES better than that here in America. At least in terms of innovation and breaking ground (at least now a days). Only certain people watch it. And as long as otaku's tastes stay as they are and the Japanese economy stays as shitty as it is, the studios are gonna keep banking on a sure thing.

You might want to take up more reading or maybe legitimate theatre.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by C.A.

There is no argument, fanservice is prominent in anime, considering a large number of the productions out now are targeting otaku. This is one major problem that anime is facing, alot of studios are trying to make money out of its niche market instead of expanding their target audience.

Summarizing this, Fanservice seems to target "otakus" rather than the general audience.

The issue here is whether it should be called "FAN SERVICE" or it is more of a "FAN-BASED SERVICE""

[Magin]

Fanservice IMO is a thing that has always been there and always will be there. But, it's like a seasoning- you just need a dash here and there, enough to entice a person, and you're all set. But too much of it ruins the dish... and I have to admit, I'm guilty of watching fanservice-laden shows very recently, and it does get rather sickening (I'm trying to pull myself out of that pit, and it's slightly working).

The other thing I'm noticing about fanservice is that back the earlier stuff (i.e., early 2000's and before), if there was fanservice, it was more aimed at the characters in the show (as like an accident or piece of comedy, etc.), and the viewer just happened to be along for the ride. Now, it's becoming the other way around- the females are flashing their skin (since this seems to be the basic idea of fanservice... I am well aware there's other types too) as if trying to purposely draw the attention of the viewer in closer (and thus the producer will probably see more dough in their wallet, if things go according to plan), and any characters in the show just also happen to be around at this particular moment

[Ash Falls Town]

Originally Posted by Magin

The other thing I'm noticing about fanservice is that back the earlier stuff (i.e., early 2000's and before), if there was fanservice, it was more aimed at the characters in the show (as like an accident or piece of comedy, etc.), and the viewer just happened to be along for the ride. Now, it's becoming the other way around- the females are flashing their skin (since this seems to be the basic idea of fanservice.

I think this is probably what makes fanservice so obvious now. "Guy sees girl naked and gets beaten up for it" doesn't happen as much anymore.

I think the fanservice is getting more obvious IN FANSERVICE SHOWS. People complaining about generalisations are comparing apples and oranges when there are apples and apples show you can use.

If you look at Happiness (generic eroge adaption 2006) and Hoshizora (generic eroge adaption 2011) you can see the fanservice is more blatent in Hoshizora but very little of it involves the girls being put into embarrassing situations IN FRONT OF THE MALE LEAD*. In fact the most fanservicy scenes in Hoshizora are fantasisations of "harem leads perverted friend".
You can also see this from how they treat Jun and Ayumu. Jun only gets a a waitress outfit and his usual school uniform while Ayumu gets full frontal nudity (and is somehow the only being in the universe with nipples.) as well as a cheerleader outfit.
On the other hand genres with low and negligible fanservice seem to still have low and negligible levels of fanservice.

*In fact Hoshizora has the opposite with the male lead being put into the embarrassing situation in front of supporting characters.

[MisaoFan]

Sorry, but I want to close this thread again, in order to not harm sensitive people like ikaikaika !

[speedyexpress48]

Depends on the show, really. Some shows shouldn't have fanservice at all, while others...need it a lot. And it's not a new issue, fanservice has been around since the 70s. It's just that the flow of anime was a lot more limited and censored over here back then...

And Sankaku Complex is news, that means 4chan is the most trustworthy source on anime out there.

Originally Posted by MisaoFan

Sorry, but I want to close this thread again, in order to not harm sensitive people like ikaikaika !

Dude, why do you even start these threads again?

[MisaoFan]

I'm creating threads to talks problems for what I've seen in anime.

[NoemiChan]

I understand your concerns but you can't please everyone.

[hyl]

@misaofan
The problem is that you are actually precisly stating what Ishihara is stating about anime. Your view is probably too narrow. Fanservice was also found in anime 10-20 years ago in anime. While there have been an increase of pure fanservice anime in the past years, those only target a specific group of otaku. It's not like every person likes those anime and most of them don't even sell that well.
I am sure i have talked it on another topic before, but sex sells regardless what medium it is on and what time it was made/created. Even masterpieces of art have nudes in them and those were mostly made in the renaissance.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by hyl

Even masterpieces of art have nudes in them and those were mostly made in the renaissance.

If you don't know why nudes are painted that way, please don't talk about them.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by MisaoFan

I'm creating threads to talks problems for what I've seen in anime.

And as you've noticed, your percieved problems may just be your problem only

I would have made a title with "is there in the anime industry a problem of excessive fanservice ?"

because discussing isn't the same as stating