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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 11 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 87 | 50.88% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 54 | 31.58% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 14 | 8.19% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 7 | 4.09% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 1.75% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 1.75% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.58% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 2 | 1.17% | |
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-01-02, 23:16 | Link #321 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Huh, I guess I'd forgotten just how off-model some of original shots looked then. Still, if you compare those to Gil's appearance at the end of episode 2 or in episode 5, then even the improved version is fairly average. But yes, I stand corrected, the improvements were noticeable after all and certainly quite welcome, since this episode totally deserves the utmost perfectionism on the creators' part.
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2012-01-02, 23:57 | Link #322 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Saber would have been asking for it since episode 5 if the anime had kept how ridiculously self-righteous and insufferable she was behaving towards Rider just after he saved her life. Spoiler for just look at what a piece of work Saber was in this:
Yeah, Gil was rude, but so was she. Rider was trying to be diplomatic until even his patience ran out for her. I swear, he should be the mediator of the war (Ruler class?) with his saintly patience to deal with both of them. Anyway, I really like they added the Gil laughing and mocking sadistically at Saber while being sort of a pal/understanding of Rider. He acknowledged Rider as worthy enemy which was important.
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Last edited by Thess; 2012-01-03 at 00:56. |
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2012-01-03, 01:56 | Link #323 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Yeah, you could already guess in the original airing that Gilgamesh was mostly okay with what Rider was saying thanks to his silence and facial expression alone, but the new scenes really helped convey their mutual understanding and acknowledgement, as well as set up a future physical confrontation between them, which I really hope does happen and greatly look forward to.
It's rather amusing actually how Saber is presented as this very decent and upstanding individual and Gilgamesh is presented as, well, a douchebag, and yet he got along with lovable big bro Rider so much better than she did. It truly shows how these aren't black and white characters at all. And in that same vein, Gil's previously omitted line that he can feel genuine compassion towards his people and subjects is a nice piece of characterisation which also helps show he's a more multi-dimensional character than he might appear at first. And yeah, after reading that excerpt, it seems Saber's issues with Rider had been set up before the "Mad Feast" even took place. And as her remark towards him in episode 13 showed, it's not a grudge she'll let go of so easily. Rider will need to be a patient man indeed to further deal with the little girl. |
2012-01-03, 02:59 | Link #324 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Rider does like Saber as person, but he doesn't see her as a king. Partly because of her regrets. Being a king is a curse to her. One he feels sorry for her about it. He doesn't like Gil very much as a person (because of his sadistic thrill occasionally) but he fully acknowledges him and respects as fellow king. He might have been harsh with her, but he's harsh with Waver too on occasion and he cares for him a great deal. Quote:
IMO, she was acting pretty insecure. I mean, she can be 'certain' of her ideals around Gilgamesh because he's completely departed from her ideas. However Rider, deep inside, values the same things as her but the way he lives his life and kingship was the opposite. All she knew was her high moral ground and Rider pretty much crumbled the foundations of this by existing: a tyrant whose never denied himself any human pleasure who was beloved by his followers and who considers them and their bond his greatest treasure. It just blew her away. She was too narrow-minded, like he said, and she wasn't ready for that revelation.
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2012-01-03, 03:49 | Link #326 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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The dynamic between the three kings was certainly top notch and it's interesting to note how, in a way, Rider possesses the best of both worlds. Saber's good nature as a person and Gilgamesh's might as a king. Saber positions herself below her people and Gilgamesh positions himself above his people, whereas Rider, while nonetheless following his personal greed and ambition, treats his people as equals and rides together with them as true and understanding comrades-in-arms. His is definitely the healthiest harmony of the three in terms of kingship. Quote:
But, as you said, Rider possesses a lot of common ground with her, and as such his words resounded with her and tore away at her in a way Gil's sadistic mockery of her could never hope to achieve. I actually even forgot for a moment that she'd brought it upon herself and felt sorry for her as she melancholically looked on at Rider's bond with his army, realising that for all her pretty ideals she'd never once reached her people's hearts the way Rider had just done with his own. A tough lesson for the would-be King of Knights indeed, which hopefully she'll learn from and show some sort of response towards in the second half of the show. |
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2012-01-03, 04:05 | Link #327 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Spoiler for she was quite pitiful:
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2012-01-03, 05:44 | Link #328 | |
Hyakko Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 33
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2012-01-03, 11:54 | Link #331 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Hmm, time to watch episode 11 and see what was missing in the Grail Dialogue.
I'm still waiting for Waver or anyone to call Rider on being a petty war-monger who'd kill other people for the sake of his own greed. I mean, seriously, his wish is to be made flesh so he can try and conquer the modern world? He'd probably be a tinpot dictator. Or if he actually gained real power, he'd get countless people killed in pointless wars. Lets face it. If Rider actually was head of one of the world's major powers now--as I'm sure he would like--we'd hate him because he'd pull a ton of countries into wars and make a total mess. He's a deceptively likable villain. |
2012-01-03, 13:14 | Link #333 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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No one in a well-off country is going to hail someone else as a hero for starting a war with them. |
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2012-01-03, 13:25 | Link #335 | ||||
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Spoiler for Waver's dream. People flocking to Rider to share his dream:
His greed is great because it serves as role model to other people. Having ambition is a good thing in life. His model of doing things is pretty healthy. Look at his conversations with Waver as example of how he is. Quote:
Had he want bloodshed, he could have killed Saber, Lancer and Berserker in episode 5 (as Saber observes with his chariot he would have been able to do it in that moment of distraction they had). Alexander is better fit for Ruler Class to be a moderator of the conflict. He's been the one who keeps a modicum of humanity in the whole conflict. Not surprisingly he gets the most humane Master as well. Quote:
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I'll say even a weakness since he's too nice and he needed to be more cutthroat in this war. Look at his picture in the ED. People cheering around him after entering a city. Soldiers, citizens- everyone.
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Last edited by Thess; 2012-01-03 at 13:37. |
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2012-01-03, 13:36 | Link #336 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 53
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2012-01-03, 13:42 | Link #337 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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If you've read the Fate route you know is a big flaw of hers (and those who don't and don't want to play the VN here, read it. Iskandar would have been proud of her in that scene). Which is what makes Saber actually a layered character: her huge mistakes.
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Last edited by Thess; 2012-01-03 at 14:02. |
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2012-01-03, 13:59 | Link #338 | |
Shadow of Effilisi
Join Date: Oct 2011
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2012-01-03, 14:08 | Link #339 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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I for one would welcome Rider as our overlord.
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