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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 122 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 3 | 6.38% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 8 | 17.02% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 10 | 21.28% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 11 | 23.40% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 9 | 19.15% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 6.38% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 4.26% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 2.13% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-01-05, 11:26 | Link #301 | |
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It's a fact that at the end Rigardo can't escape anymore from Claire,he doesn't even try to defend 'cause he knows that it's pointless. I also have another proof: Rigardo is incredibly fast (more or less like Miria),BUT in the same time that he does incredibly little movements Claire can run absurdly greater distances. It's also a fact that it's clear that Rigardo sometimes loses sight of Claire. It's also a fact that Yagi gave the problems connected to crazy speed only to Histy,Claire and Miria (i mean in her last "kamikaze attack".....that infact she con't control it at all) so it makes sense that those 3 are indeed the ones that reached and surpassed the "speed limit" that Histy was talking about. Prissy maybe could also surpass that speed-limit since she is incredibly great in everything and since we have actually never seen her getting serious (and most importantly she also has a body that would consent her to control that kind of speed),but for now she never went that far (or maybe she did but Yagi didn't show us the trick that she uses to control that speed.....personally i think that she never exceded the "speed limit",infact it's not that she was never hitten by her opponents.....) |
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2012-01-05, 12:34 | Link #302 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Clare in the image can not control the speed. Therefore, her speed at that time it was far superior to the abysmal, according to your argument, because the abismals can control their speed and Clare not could in that moment. So, what I wrote in my previous comment, occurs when Clare is already much faster than an abysmals because she could not control her speed. Then Rigardo could block her attack, when he should have died instantly without to being able react. This impossibility your argument. "Including the prediction of a predictable attack " My opinion is that Clare (7 years ago)was not nearly as fast as Alice (present), and the absimal could control his speed and Rigardo would have been annihilated in an instant for Alice using only her legs, without moving the blades, only keep they in place. We have different ways of seeing the manga. For me, control speed does not mean having aroused strong legs and traction. For me, speed is maintained by the yoki. I doubt that Priscilla has trouble moving as fast as Clare in her human form without using their tentacles or claws. Another example is the destroyer, he was just a mass and incredibly fast, did not need traction. Last edited by su5so; 2012-01-05 at 12:48. |
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2012-01-05, 18:17 | Link #303 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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First of all its clear that you are GREATLY understimating Rigardo's speed,he is REALLY REALLY fast!!!Claire had to cover an huge gap between her and Rigardo while Rigardo had only to move a few centimeters (this means that she is A LOT faster than him!!! A LOT!!!).
If you add to that the fact that Claire's awakening was just at the very beginning and that her powers were still rising (so she wasn't yet at full speed since she was just at the very beginning of the release of her yoki) i don't see why you are so surprised that Rigardo could stop her attack,especially if you consider that at that point Rigardo still had an huge advantage both in mass of the body and in physical strenght. Also you show another obvious mistake when you talk about "abyssal-speed" as if all the abyssals have the same speed; not all the abyssals are necessarily specialized in speed. Miria is not even close to abyssal-level and she still is probably faster than some abyssals,lol. Quote:
This means that since Ali didn't have this problem, she wasn't fast enough to surpass that speed-limit;Claire on the other hand clearly surpassed that speed-limit infact she had an HUGE problem at controlling her absurd speed. This is not a matter of opinion,this is certain: Claire was SURELY faster than Ali,no doubt about it. Quote:
Listen,this could have been an acceptable theory BEFORE Yagi decided to introduce this "traction problem",now it can't be accepted anymore. Priscilla is great and all,but if she want to go super fast she has to deal with the traction problem like anyone else,it's not that physics has different rules just for her,lol. Quote:
You should remember that even Miria's mirage speed (that is surely faster than the destroyer) is below the speed-limit. The destroyer doesn't have any traction problem 'cause it's not that fast in the first place..... Last edited by MalakTawus; 2012-01-05 at 19:44. |
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2012-01-06, 03:56 | Link #304 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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I personally thought that Clare (pieta) was not superior to an abysmal, but with training now she was. Argument by Mr. Yagi destroyed, hehe. You're right. |
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2012-01-06, 08:14 | Link #306 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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Personally i always thought that Claire's speed was crazy (since far surpassed Miria's speed that just in itself is already incredible),but before Histy's words it was impossible to compare (for example) Ali&Beth's speed with Claire. About Priscilla, she never exceded that speed limit for now,but something tells me that it's just because she simply never needed to go that far,we'll see in the future (an imminent future i hope ) |
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2012-01-07, 06:13 | Link #308 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Hm, just realized that Hysteria is also seriously lacking in the resilience department... Of the three ZAOs, Cassandra seems to be the only one with any semblance of durability. It's been mentioned that a near-limit Miria didn't even dent one of Cassandra's face-tipped tentacles, whereas an exhausted trainee managed to cut off one of Roxanne's fingers. In the same light, Tabitha, a former No. 31, easily sliced off Hysteria's wings with a normal sword slash without any yoki augmentation. Nike and Dietrich also easily sliced off a couple of feet with normal swings. Hell, the bug-like AB from Pieta had legs similar to Hysteria's and Veronica's strikes couldn't chop them off. Note that all three got targeted in their appendages and had different results, giving us a rough idea about their defense.
Though durability wasn't exactly the three former AOs' forte, they were certainly resilient enough. Isley was no doubt quite durable. Riful's strips had only been damaged by Rachel's Strong Sword and Helen's Drill Sword IIRC, the most powerful single-strike techniques (Of course, this excludes attacks by ABs like Alicia.). Normal sword swings had zero effect. Even WC could only deflect the strikes. As with most issues regarding strength, we have no idea about Luciela when it comes to resilience. Of course there's Priscilla who doesn't seem to be all that durable, seeing as how Noel managed to sever her arm with a normal sword swing, but this is Priscilla we're talking about. She's a monster in every other statistic and has crazy regenerative abilities, so it really doesn't matter. I miss that aura of omnipotence the former AOs exuded—that sense of dread whenever their awakened forms appear on a page. They could easily go berserk and kill every protagonist in the blink of an eye, giving us a silly and pointless premature ending. They're like those ridiculously difficult optional bosses in video games that send your level-capped characters brandishing the best equipment in the game to oblivion in less time than you can say "ass-whooping." True, Hysteria is easily the fastest thing we've seen (save for Clare and Priscilla), but that's it. I just can't sense that aura... |
2012-01-07, 14:14 | Link #309 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
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That was random - The only one who's confusing me is you
---- I can understand you Fermat -- the AO's feeling omnipotent was actually a very good and true analogy. Nixl said it best that, Priscilla was the first truly 'omnipotent' Awakened Being we saw in the manga, and ever since then, characters have been introduced to slowly fill in the gap (don't forget, the AOs were introduced after as well)... Now we are here at 122 -- the catch-up game is almost over actually; we have many more characters that have been No.1, or at least have the potential - we have more characters over AO (Raciella), or at least have the potential to kill an AO (the Eaters)... In short, the expansion of the power levels, the introduction of many new characters, and overall growth of the story, has slowly ebbed at the gap -- now Abyssal isn't even a fearful and legendary position but just another spot on the power-level chart; I got that impression as much from the way Deneve said their were now three Abyssal-level opponents at Staff: their really isn't anything all that special about it anymore, at least not as how it used to be. Before, and not just with regards to their power-level, an Abyssal was an extremely rare, legendary and terrifying thing...something that almost is mythological or questionable if it even exists (Really - I think, way back during the Witch's Maw, it was rare to even know the AO's existed)....now, again, with so many new characters since then that have steadily gotten stronger and stronger, it's now more then possible to kill Abyssals and Priscilla isn't that far off too. It really all just boils down to the simple progression of the story; a natural fortunate and/or unfortunate consequence....personally, I think it's a bit of both.
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2012-01-07, 22:07 | Link #310 | |
Puff The Magic Dragon
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: USA!!!
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But Clare has to find a way to defeat Priscilla. I believe she can do it... somehow .
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2012-01-08, 01:12 | Link #312 | ||
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Hopefully though Claymore!, you get what I was trying to say.....AO's....Priscilla....Abyssals and beyond were like Dragons or any mythological creature -- it was something awe-inspiring and almost magical in a sense back then; now it's like, "oh whatever, he/she is an Abyssal"....Yes, they are still terrifying and mega-powerful, but not so powerful as they used to be, and thus, not as interesting. As I said it best, they are now just another spot on the power-level chart. That's not to say their power defines them (it's about as important as power to any character really), but their power had a great deal to do with their enigma and wonder -- again though, now that two Abyssals have been killed, a being stronger then a 'normal' Abyssal as born, and the gap to Priscilla is ever-shrinking....nobody really has the feeling of omnipotence anymore in the story, nobody has the feeling of awe and dread... I don't want to be cynical, but others like Gooral undoubtedly, will say it's because Claymore has become more conventional -- more "anything is possible as long as I believe in myself!"; back in the day, if someone was stronger then you, more likely then not it's because they simply were......you could train and train and, no matter what you do, you will never be as strong as they are - end of story. It's something I feel is more realistic as I described in the posts in that link and, in all honesty, at least on some level, more preferable -- it's why I feel it's better that Claire never gets to the power she always wants. Her struggles and growth is what makes her who she is -- she has had to grit her teeth and put up with so much when their were 46 other warriors who were better then her (either because they were simply more experience and/or again, simply because they just were), and now, she is worthy of being a No.1 capable warrior. Other people have helped her along the way and given her power-ups and, while that can't be denied, putting too much emphasis on them cheapens her and the effort she has put in. I've said before and I'll say it again -- I want all the characters I like to become the strongest they can be.....but undeniably, I also want their to be lines drawn - I want some people to never reach the power they so earnestly crave and I want the human struggle to continue; I don't want anybody, including and especially Claire, to become stronger "just because" or for some innane reason like the story being "shonen". Those sorts of things are simply distasteful to me, which is why I've always been against any notion that Claire has a Teresa black-box inside her or has the potential and/or destiny to acquire God-like power and stomp Priscilla's head off. In some sense, you may argue that it makes me sound hypocritical - because I just said that, in the case of the Abyssals, that their seemingly omnipotent-ability was part of what made them so interesting and 'wowzers'....Thing is, my words aren't hypocritical, they are merely backwards in this case -- they've never had the same kind of human struggle because they were already on top of the food-chain....the interest in them in part had alot to do because they were seemingly almighty. It was black and white back then -- you were either not on top (in which case, you were also never going to be -- hence, that struggle like Claire, is what made them interesting), or you were, in which case it's because you were already on top that you were fearful and terrifying....but closing the gap, weaker characters were now capable of actually obtaining the power they wanted (hence losing that realistic human-element which was part of the interest), and the strong ones were now capable of being superceded; hence, now they weren't so terrifying and subsequently, not so rare and interesting. Some people are stronger and/or more skilled then others simply because they just are -- this is okay; Claire, and all the rest....they aren't interesting because of their powers, but because of who they are - it's what makes them humans. I don't want that to change and this whole thing to be about power-levels....well, more then it is now anyway. Quote:
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2012-01-08, 06:54 | Link #313 |
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Personally instead i have always been a supporter of the theory that belives that hidden inside Claire there is ALWAYS been an immense power.
It's true that what makes Claire interesting is her struggle to get better,BUT imo what also makes her interesting is the fact that sometimes she shows a "crazy" personality (crazy simply in the sense that she risks A LOT) and an immense drive. I don't see why seeing Claire as the warrior that has inherited Teresa's powers is something that's not very characteristical for Claire,afterall it's been implied from the very beginning that something like that IS what eally happened, and what happened against Rigardo is basically an undeniable proof that there is REALLY something strange in Claire's powers. So in conclusion, if it's a normal condition for abyssals to be on an unreachable level for normal warriors,imo it's also a normal condition for Claire to be able someday to release FULLY her hidden powers and becoming as strong as Prissy (of course to reach this level even Claire has to do some sort of full "awakening",but it could probably be different from normal since her body is different from normal in the first place). It's something hinted from the very beginning,it's not that if this happens Yagi would have invented it on the moment. Also,beside the fact that there hasn't been yet a carneficine (that btw imo could happen very soon), tbh even now i still see the abyssals as an unreachable level for everyone else that hasn't have the potential from he very beginning (maybe Miata?). Yes,it's true that the ghosts have talken big when they entered the battlefield,but imo it's quite clear that those where only words,it's not that their fight is going very well atm,lol. ......and even if by miracle they'll really be able to defeat Histy (and i have some doubts) it will be thanx to a great tactic,team play and probably thanx to Histy's arrogance causing her to understimate them too much (cause it's clear that if she wants she could easily kill everyone in a few seconds,if she loses against them she HAS to do something stupid,lol). .......and also it's not that the ghosts can really fight 3 AOs,their only hope is that Cassy and Roxy continue with their private duel,if not we can say "bye bye" to everyone. |
2012-01-09, 04:40 | Link #315 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
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About Anastasia, somehow I haven't noticed it earlier but Yagi at least made the effort of explaining how Ana could set up the threads. We don't know for how long she has been doing it but we know she needed time to do it (hence she said "The preparations are complete."). For all we know she attached her hair long before they got to the battle ground or they didn't come out to the open until she was almost done (warriors of such weak auras, especially in the middle of ZAOs could easily be masked).
One other thing I've noticed after re-reading, Nike, Anastasia and Dietrich look more capable than Audrey and Rachel who have much higher numbers. So either Cassandra suddenly became so strong, Hysteria is so weak or Hysteria was screwing with them so much (or the mix of the above). No matter what the answer is, it still looks strange. Still I doubt she wasn't seriously trying to get back her prey that was stolen (hence she said "Like I'd let you!"). It just seems that except for speed she has nothing, she's just a living bullet with not that much accuracy. A little too little for an AO if you ask me. Edit: I wonder what would carbontaxes say after reading this chapter. After all he wrote this: Quote:
Last edited by Gooral; 2012-01-09 at 12:36. |
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2012-01-10, 00:03 | Link #317 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
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Seeing Hysteria's form and it's weaknesses it got to me that another possible mistake Clare was doing was relying purely on speed when she intended to defeat Priscilla. Then again how could Raphaela know about it (unless she analyzed Clare's mind and memories)?
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2012-01-10, 22:22 | Link #319 | ||
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Still, those two have always just been a joke I'm afraid - yes, they are indeed capable, but for whatever reason, Yagi has made it so they always will get the short end of the stick and end up getting saved by others, including the weaker fillers of their own generation.....so that can't do well for their self-esteem. I can see it though why, beyond Yagi or even Claymore, how it can be annoying for people how some characters are ridiculously more powerful then others, yet they always end up having to be saved by the other weaker ones for whatever reason, like plain favoritism and why, Audrey and Rachel, are always ending up like this. I'm not exactly pointing fingers or implying anything.....but it is something to be noticed that, barring the girl named after a shoe-brand, Anastasia and Dietrich are vastly more popular then Audrey and Rachel....so that may have something to do with the overall presentation. To be fair, Yagi has no idea what characters will end up being more popular or not, but it wouldn't be that surprising if he worked around the results anyway. Perhaps those two were get better limelight if people appreciated them more. Who knows - I don't want to say Yagi is so easily influenced, but I can't ignore behind-the-scene stuff that may or may not be going on; at the very least, I have to bring them up. It's always nice, or even flat-out necessary sometimes though, for characters to expand beyond their "role" or archetype they've unknowingly been given and actually do something surprising for a change. For several characters in Claymore, I'm still waiting. Quote:
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2012-01-11, 01:40 | Link #320 | |
Im shy too...
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If traction is a key to her ability of speed.... Miria ask Cassandra for her help, if she not to busy with Roxanne.... or make the ground slippery somehow..... or how fast & accurate can Yuma throw her Claymore at her legs.... that's a few theories I can come up on how to beat Hysteria
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