(L) Kannaduki no Miko

[overfiend]

Well, Shinji did kill everyone, except that Asuka/Rei thing, but that's another story.

Spoiler:

I continue to argue that this time is different. Chikane doesn't actually die. At no point do we see her lifeless body, she is physically ripped from Himeko's arms. Granted all of that lovey-dovey stuff may have purely been for dramatic purposes, I'd like to think there was something more going on here. We also have another precedent here where the other miko has not commited suicide after the sacrifice. Chikane purposefully stopped Himeko, most likely because she thought she would be happy with Souma - but we know that ain't happening. The situation has been changed and things are different now. Anything could have happened.

You see had they both died, their souls would go through the whole Wheel of Life again, where they'd be sitting around waiting to reincarnate and go this whole ritual again and again for the amusement of the gods. I don't see that happening this time, since Chikane pretty much walks into the shrine very much alive.

And why reincarnate when your lover is still alive? Okay there's that whole needing a body and stuff, and who knows if Chikane still had one after being sucked into another plane of existence - and then there's that arguement about her being a god or not again. But given a little effort, a little spit in Ameno, Susano-O, or Amaterasu's eye and poof! I got a new body to get jiggy with my girl-toy! Hoorah! Not exactly reincarnation, closer to resurrection in my book.

And while we're at it, that's some crap the gods make these girls go through every generation or so. If I were them, I'd just let Orochi off the lot of them. What's with this garbage that one of them has to sacrifice the other to save the world AFTER they Orochi? Someone upstairs put this act together all wrong in my book. That just ain't right. I think Chikane has every right to be pissed at everyone, and they all should have stayed dead.

But that's just me.

EDIT: Let's not blame Ayato for all of that.

Spoiler:

You had two or three different realities collapsing in on each other, and the girl he was supposed to recreate everything with decided she liked her "brother"/Ayato's clone more than Ayato, while Ayato still had the hots for Haruka. So each couple goes off to make their own reality. That's gods for you.

[AzureSky]

Originally Posted by dreamless

just finished watching ep12, and as fitting to the entire series, I really don't know what to say about the ending. It may well be one of the best endings for me ever, while at the same time it may be one of the worst endings ever for me. Currently I'm inclined to think it's one of the best, however I'm not too sure if I have fully understood the ending yet. And I still have absolutely no idea whether the director is a crazy genius or a crazy idiot, albeit I'm currently inclined to think he's a crazy moron It is a bittersweet ending which I love, but it also has ridiculous Deus Ex Machina scenes that I hate, and not just one Deus Ex Machina, but two And it may have quite some self-contradictions... or not

Spoiler:

First thing first, seems I was right about Chikane's arrow destroying the entire world... but it ends up that the destruction of the entire world is not that a significant thing anyway

Anyway that katana stab seems to be just a minor annoyance (Deus Ex Machina 1, or maybe not, since Chikane "died" in the end?), oh and the mikos confess to each other and have some wetty kisses And we have Chikane crying in Himeko's arms this time

So Souma now has fully exchanged position with Chikane, now he becomes the fully supportive role to the love between Chikane and Himeko. oh well, but then I doubt those who have said that they liked Chikane because she's the supportive one in the love triangle will now say they like Souma because he's the supportive one in the love triangle Or maybe his support to the love between Chikane and Himeko will just be brushed aside as an "all-too-perfect secondary character"

And I can't help but laugh during his scenes. He's really pitiable in this episode, he got turned into a scales statue, but he can't RIP yet, he has to come back to life only to sacrifice himself again to defeat Orochi, just in order to let Chikane and Himeko have some more private time together He's happy as long as Himeko can live happily, even when seeing Himeko abandoning him for Chikane, lol

Souma, what can I say? I guess I'll just quote on Himeko, "You are a good man..." OTZ

Then I'm not too sure what happens next. Supposedly one miko has to be sacrificed by the hands of another miko to restore the world (something like a world reset I guess, think Lain and RahXephon), and the existence of the sacrificed miko will be erased from the restored world. But here it seems Chikane got locked up in the shrine on the moon? then how does the world get restored?

Anyway yea some promises of getting reincarnated (what? how can the sacrificed miko get reincarnated if her existence is erased?) and some things said by Ama no Murakumo about reincarnations and destiny and never ending cycles and things which I can't make much sense of yet. And then we got a restored/reset world without Chikane, and then somehow Himeko meets Chikane again (Deus Ex Machina 2, even if Chikane is to be reincarnated to the restored world immediately, she should still be an infant right? or is she the real Chikane or not? Where does she get that shell? Hmm...)

I guess they haven't broken away from the cycles of fate after all...

Anyway yup I don't know what to say about the ending. And I still don't understand a lot of things yet, and I'm not even sure if those Deus Ex Machina scenes are really Deus Ex Machina or not... I'm not sure if the director is cheating on my emotions with Deus Ex Machina stuff or it's some weird logic that I still can't comprehend yet... anyway a fittingly weird ending to a weird show, you could say it's a great emotional ending, or it's a moronic ending that cheats on your emotions, I'm still trying to figure out which

excuse me but what is deus ex machina???

[USCPharmacist]

BTW why are the gods and demons GIANTO ROBO? Was it ever explained in the manga?

BTW again, for those who live in Japan, can 2 women get married or do they have to settle for dometic partnership? Well at least Chikane and Hemiko are fortunate enough not to be borned in America cuz if they do, after they give the dieties the fingers, they still have to face George Bush ahhaahha lol.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by overfiend

Well, Shinji did kill everyone, except that Asuka/Rei thing, but that's another story.

Spoiler:

I continue to argue that this time is different. Chikane doesn't actually die. At no point do we see her lifeless body, she is physically ripped from Himeko's arms. Granted all of that lovey-dovey stuff may have purely been for dramatic purposes, I'd like to think there was something more going on here. We also have another precedent here where the other miko has not commited suicide after the sacrifice. Chikane purposefully stopped Himeko, most likely because she thought she would be happy with Souma - but we know that ain't happening. The situation has been changed and things are different now. Anything could have happened.

You see had they both died, their souls would go through the whole Wheel of Life again, where they'd be sitting around waiting to reincarnate and go this whole ritual again and again for the amusement of the gods. I don't see that happening this time, since Chikane pretty much walks into the shrine very much alive.

And why reincarnate when your lover is still alive? Okay there's that whole needing a body and stuff, and who knows if Chikane still had one after being sucked into another plane of existence - and then there's that arguement about her being a god or not again. But given a little effort, a little spit in Ameno, Susano-O, or Amaterasu's eye and poof! I got a new body to get jiggy with my girl-toy! Hoorah! Not exactly reincarnation, closer to resurrection in my book.

And while we're at it, that's some crap the gods make these girls go through every generation or so. If I were them, I'd just let Orochi off the lot of them. What's with this garbage that one of them has to sacrifice the other to save the world AFTER they Orochi? Someone upstairs put this act together all wrong in my book. That just ain't right. I think Chikane has every right to be pissed at everyone, and they all should have stayed dead.

But that's just me.

well

Spoiler:

Chikane never told Himeko to live happily with Souma at that scene, they pretty much got over the Souma issue when summoning the real Ama no Murakumo (ie. dump him). Chikane told Himeko to promise her to wait and look for her since she'll definitely reincarnate (I think she clearly said "to be born back", which means reincarnate, not resurrect), and Himeko replied that she would definitely find Chikane, despite whether Chikane would have a different look or even not remember her. So I guess at that time it clearly implies reincarnation (reborn in a new body), not resurrection.

Anyway as I said I'm not sure what happens next. It's really hard to decipher what Ama no Murakumo means at that time.

Ama no Murakumo : Never able to pray for forgiveness, do you hate your destiny, moon priestess?
Ama no Murakumo : hoping to escape from the endless cycle of separation, do you wish for the freedom of the void?
Chikane *shakes her head* : I have met Himeko again, I'm very happy now, happier than anyone else...
Chikane *tears* : Himeko...
*door shuts*

I'm not sure how they manage to restore the world without the proper ritual of one miko sacrificing the other.

I don't quite understand that part, but I think Chikane has not become God or anything like that. And since Orochi is just sealed again, I guess the endless cycle still continues.

Originally Posted by USCPharmacist

BTW why are the gods and demons GIANTO ROBO? Was it ever explained in the manga?

well, why they can't be giant robos? no one knows how gods and demons look like anyway

[DeuceTrick]

Originally Posted by AzureSky

excuse me but what is deus ex machina???

In old Roman plays, sometimes the characters would be faced with certain doom, but were suddenly saved by the intervention of the gods and lived happily ever after. This sort of plot device often came out of nowhere, and was generally dissatisfying. However, it happened frequently enough that the Romans called it "deus ex machina," which is Latin for "god in the machine."

Today, when someone refers to a deus ex machina, they are talking about an unexpected element of a story that solves everyone's problems with very little explanation. As you can probably imagine, accusing someone of invoking deus ex machina is about the same as saying, "This is shitty writing." I hope that clears things up for you, Azure.

Oh, and USCPharmacist: Homosexuals are treated no better in Japan than they are in the United States. No marriage rights, little to no recognition or dignity. Their discrimination is much quieter, but it's no less vicious.

[chibipoe]

Spoiler:

My impression of the end was that, both Himeko and Chikane were reborn. Notice that that was definitely an older Himeko(her hair being cut and all). So, I personally, don't think it was 'our' Himeko & Chikane of this time. It was H&C reincarnated yet again after Chikane sacrificed herself to seal Orochi. (Which is how I interpreted the staying in the shrine scene. One of the Miko HAD to, to perpetuate the cycle. The last few times...it had been, I assume, the Hi no Miko. But Chikane chose to change that this time, and not be forced to kill Himeko.

[overfiend]

Spoiler:

A valid interpretation of the ending, but I - and I know alot of people will agree with me - would like to think that those are the same Chikane and Himeko meeting in Shibuya at the end. Himeko's reaction to seeing Chikane says it all.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Takemi_Ikazuchi

The scary thing is I know which particular animes you are rerring to..

EDIT: Ayato's method was the craziest

Rahxephon Spoilers

Spoiler:

Ayato's mom: Go and see him, my dear. He needs you.
Haruka: giggle.. giggle... AYATO
Ayato: *BEAM OF DEATH*
Haruka: *BOOM*
Ayato: whoops....
Ayato: ...
Ayato: That didn't happen.. ** Jedi mind trick

Hahahaha.... much as I love RahXephon (even the ending!), when you put it like that, it's just hilarious.

[USCPharmacist]

Although the last scene was touching...I guess...I wonder, if you were walking one day in the street minding your own business and then all the sudden some dumb @#$# of the same sex out of nowhere hugged you as you were crossing the road....wouldn't you be scare and yelled "arrrrr crazy stalker trying to kill me ARRRRR!" And that "attacker" just happen to have the other half of your shell necklace, talk about creepy eheheh. It's a sign from god to tell you to turn gay

[chibipoe]

Originally Posted by overfiend

Spoiler:

A valid interpretation of the ending, but I - and I know alot of people will agree with me - would like to think that those are the same Chikane and Himeko meeting in Shibuya at the end. Himeko's reaction to seeing Chikane says it all.

Spoiler:

Well....my slant would be, to give it a purely happy ending....that Chikane choosing to defy her destiny as the Tsuki No Miko and give herself up in place of Himeko was the end the gods had wanted all along, that one of the Two would find it in themselves to defy the cycle, however small that defiance was to the outcome. And as such, the gods chose to reward them by reincarnating them both and letting them come together. Hence, Chikane having the other half of the seashell. *shrug* Of course, like all endings, it can be read that the whole thing is starting over again and that was why Himeko looked different(somewhat.) Ambigiuity, gotta love it.

However, I am perfectly willing to believe it was the current time versions, also, if an older Himeko(again, notice the hair). It's the fact that it can be read many different ways that I like it. I admit, I'd have hoped for a full 24 or 26 episodes for KnM so it could fully explore some of the themes presented...but I'm happy with how everything resolved in spite of that.

[dreamless]

well, I guess when you try to explain some plot events as the intervention of some gods that never even show their faces in the show, it's safe to call that Deus Ex Machina

[overfiend]

The gods were - conveniently - out of town on business. That we don't here from any of them until the end can be explained that way.

Souma and Tsubasa are the ultimate Deus Ex Machina btw.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by overfiend

Souma and Tsubasa are the ultimate Deus Ex Machina btw.

Tsubasa and Souma are not really Deus Ex Machina, it's hinted before and somewhat reasonable, and the characters are quite well-developed instead of some faceless gods that have zero line in the entire show

I'm pretty sure Souma is put there to make us laugh even without any real comedy. I laughed through the whole Souma scene in the last episode, Souma-kun you are really really a good man... OTL

[Takemi_Ikazuchi]

Every former Orochi seemed to have resumed their former lives, but I wonder what Tsubasa is doing for a living.

Hitman?
Actor?
Pimp?
Kidnapper?

[eMpTy265]

Originally Posted by Takemi_Ikazuchi

Every former Orochi seemed to have resumed their former lives, but I wonder what Tsubasa is doing for a living.

Hitman?
Actor?
Pimp?
Kidnapper?

It seems that Tsubasa wasn't returned to normal, since he didn't 'die'... There's a shot of him standing there smoking... but I don't think he's been reincarnated/ressurected...

So maybe he somehow removed himself from the endless loop as well?

***************************

Re: KnM

Well... at least it's over.


My favourite line:

Souma: "Let me do it, since I can't do anything else apart from saving the world. Save your precious time for each other..."


(Funny how saving the world is completely trivial when compared to talk-time between Chikane & Himeko. )

[ryuuu]

maybe because it's gonna be their last conversation.

Spoiler:

you know in their past life, to me it seems like himeko is the one that looks more mature. it seems like himeko already knew that one of the mikos would have to die to defeat orochi (just like chikane knows in this life). maybe it's still a neverending circle ?

in their past life himeko sacrificed herself, but maybe their life before that is the same with the current life (chikane sacrificing herself). so, himeko is the one with the memory.

[USCPharmacist]

Interesting Ryuuu, I have the same thought.

Spoiler:

BTW, instead of trying to have a "classy" ending, namely ambiguous ending, why don't they just show Chikane's sexy face to Hemiko? I don't get why the director wants to be pretentious, especially for KnM. Come on, the show has yuri and giant robos! I want to see the 2 dikes make out in the middle of the street so I can capture it and make it into a wallpaper.....I will shut up now

[dreamless]

actually I think

Spoiler:

the hairstyle of the previous Chikane reminds me of Souma... maybe the previous Chikane splits into Souma and the current Chikane (yea, so Chikane is the Miang and Souma the Anti-type! can't get enough Xenogears ) So maybe the person that Himeko meet in the end is Souma dressed as Chikane, ie. the true Chikane after the Miang and Anti-type merge

oh well, I think we need to give a most pitiable male lead award to Souma-kun

[ryuuu]

Spoiler:

man it really sucks to be a miko in this show.
not only do one of you will have to be killed by the other when you reach the age of 16, you'll agree to reincarnate and repeat the whole thing again just to meet each other again.
the gods are really cruel in this anime.

[USCPharmacist]

We need Jebus to lay the smack down on those false gods ahhaa lol