All right Shiek, here is my reply, 20 hours later
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Originally Posted by Shiek927
All I can say, is that you are entitled to your own opinion, because I just don't agree at all - I don't see Deneve as the opposite of Helen; if anything, they are two sides of the same idiot and Deneve isn't secretly Helen, or anyone else's for that matter, conscious/superego that keeps everybody in check every once and awhile.
I just don't agree with that because I just never saw Deneve like that; as I said, if anything, she's just as wild as Helen is - the only difference is, she's introverted about it and Helen is extroverted.
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I would never call Deneve and idiot. She is one of the most intelligent Ghosts. She has to be because she can analyze those situations so well. And Helen and Deneve have polar opposite personalities (as you said introverted and extroverted). But Helen can sometimes be a little stupid.
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I'm not trying to bash Deneve (well, maybe I am a little )....I don't agree one bit though that she's suddenly/secretly been elevated to this great position of importance or somehow has always been there; she's not just a background character or anything, but this is just another extreme in my opinion; it's one I don't believe in.
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No it does seem you are bashing her. But lately most people are. But she has taken on an im[portant role as being a rational and stern person who helps keep the Ghosts together.
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I don't agree with this whatsoever - yes, people have been wondering how Claire awoke....you think we've been sitting on our butts about it though? Everybody and their grandma has been theorizing Claire's situation; many of them have been very good...
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It doesn't matter if the theories are good if they are wrong. I would rather have a good theory given by a character (by the auothor) than 20 theories given by a bunch of fans.
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So what on earth makes Deneve's words so important? Again, I never got the memo that everything she says is God and must be accepted or you are denying the truth....to me, what came from her, was just another theory and we may get another answer in time -- it's not like we've been told something that ended up being false, at one time or another.
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If your not going to accept what the characters say as the truth then i guess you don't even need the translation to have an opinion on any of the chapters. Deneve's words are important because she is explaining the situation(s) to the other Ghosts (and the reader)
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I don't believe or like the idea that she's just a mouthpiece for Yagi - that she's always been this way, suddenly became like this, or even have this role, and if she does, I won't even know what to say to that, other then that Claymore's ambiguity has effectively been gutted...
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No that's kinda of what she is used for (unfortunately). She is a stern and Rational character that can analyze and understand a situation because of her high intelligence
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What's the point of theorizing, with debating, with thinking, if we can just count on Dr.D to just explain everything and tell us everything we need to know? Last I checked, the point of Claymore, Claymore as a whole, was all about gray ambiguity and figuring stuff out on your own....you can't tell me that Deneve's behavior is completely contradictory to that.
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The point is too discuss opinions on the chapters and story. But lately people just complain how much the hate this or that.
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 Um, no, we just don't simply feel the way you do....that doesn't make us 'wrong'. Raki is an embodiment of this
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Yeah i guess i am just an optimist (at least on this topic). But i don't remember what Raki has to do with this conversation.
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It's all perceptive Claymore!....I can see why it's a powerful moment for some, I can see why, especially coupled with Dr.D, more ranting on Deneve's part...I said just now that it feels like a long-awaiting dressing-down to Miria on Deneve's part.
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It is a very powerful and emotional moment. I see it as a serious and important piece of the story.
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All I can say is the same thing as always -- "agree to disagree"
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obviously
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Yes, but they are effectively gutted.....their are situations Claymore! where, eventually with time, we have no choice but to accept what happened or what was said, as truth -- Renee hasn't shown up in ages and it doesn't look like she will any time soon......the ambiguity of Riful's words, made many hope she was actually still alive....but it's been ages since then and we have no choice but to accept that she really did die. Maybe she didn't, but I am no longer holding my breath.
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I honestly don't care about Renee or anything that she and her ugly hair has to say
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This however is even worse, because their IS no implication, their is no potential mystery -- again, it's just Deneve flat-out explaining the story as if the readers were brain-dead idiots, and we have no choice but to accept what she says.
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Just imagine if during the scene where Clare was fighting priscilla and was unable to awaken, there was no dialogue for Deneve or Helen. Just none. Would you have been able to understand why she kept reverting back to her human form? would have understood it right when you were reading it? probably not. So yes we should accept what Deneve has to say because she knows a lot about her comrades and has great analytic skills.
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The ambiguity of Claymore both helps and hurts us in more then one way; but it's what makes the story what it is - I don't see any reason to suddenly destroy that by electing the stoic warrior as the author's mouthpiece and/or the voice-of-reason. Regardless of whether her words have sense and truth to them, because they often do, it's taking it too far to accept and approve everything that she does and comes out of her mouth (because as I said, she needs a dressing-down of her own; notably, she's never gotten one; when is she ever going to be put in her place, or is she just gonna do that to everybody else?), especially with the logic that everything she says and does is the will of God/Yagi.
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No the story is about Revenge. And Deneve does not ruin the story by explaining things. Sometimes things that are hard to understand need to be explain. She is very intelligent so i see no reason not to trust her words.
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It's posts like these that make people think you are a male
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I also thought that post was a little strange
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First off, that bit on racism made me laugh
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Well it's kind of true
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Claymore! I feel your outlook on the story is simply different then my own, and presumably Nixl's....It's not like the entire story is one giant mystery; not in the sense you're thinking....it's not like Claire's name is actually Shaniqua or the whole thing is actually a dream or something ridiculous and off-the-wall, you are taking it too far...
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Yeah i like what is happening in the story so i guess that makes me an optimist.
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Deneve's method of revealing things however has no substance, no growth, no anything - it's not that we were told the answer to something that felt very lacking (that's only half)...it's just that, at the same time, that's it - we are supposed to accept what she says as truth, and their is nothing we can do about it.
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Deneve is a stoic person so don't expect her words to be sappy. They are serious words. So just accept it. Try not to think about it and let it happen
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Because undeniably, and I've said it many times before -- that's what it's all about - what Claymore, is all about: the thinking, the debating, hanging on your chair every month to find out what the next chapter will slightly reveal to us next whilst leaving us on another frustrating cliffhanger......That's the bulk of the fun -- I simply can't imagine somebody who reads the story all in one shot and/or when it's all over and the story is complete......it certainly must feel like a very hollow experience since the party is already over.
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This is not a anime, sometimes things can be lost between frames. It can be hard to immediately get what is goin on in a panel. So Deneve explains what is happening on the battlefield so the reader can understand it better.
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It's just a blunt character bluntly telling us what's going on in the story; can't Yagi throw me a bone or something? If I wanted to be flat-out explained what's going on in a plot, I'd be reading Dragon Ball Z or something.
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Dragon ball Z is awesome. Don't insult it
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Even though i know you weren't
To be honest it was hard to rewrite most of it because i can't remember all of my points that i made last night. And it took a long time too. But i also tried to make my replies a little kinder sounding and less demanding. I also shortened it up a lot.
, after that i felt completely drained 
