Claymore Chapter 123

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Arlenis

Shiek, Awakened beings actually do have stats entailing their "Hardness" and even "Speed", "Strength" and "Yoki" in the data books. Dauf's "Hardness" stat was SSS+ for example. I actually do kinda look at it in terms of that. Such as Undine having an A+ baseline "Strength" stat and being able to block Rigaldo's first strike; he even commented on it being impressive. I doubt that a warrior with a baseline "Strength" stat of C could not have without use of yoki to bump that stat up.

That's just silly....

I mean I can't deny that those books really do say that; but when do you ever, in the manga itself, see things like that? Like the characters saying "X has bigger stats then Y does!"

Feels more like an experiment or something on Yagi's part or to get new fans to join in....it is true that the books have stats listed down like that, but that's also the only instance where that's ever happened.

Plus, don't forget that those books are supposed to be from the Org's perspective at the time -- so those books are definitely meant to be taken with a large amount of salt in the first place.

So, I don't know....it just feels weird to hear people talking in video-game RPG terms like that, I guess.

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by hamstar

yagi is making the plot a bit too convenient for protagonists. This used to be a manga with insurmountably powerful antagonists - all of which have been killed off in one way or the other without any help from the claymores..

Isley - killed by those Abyssal feeders

Riful & dauf- attacked by Abyssal feeders, Alicia, beth and finished off by Priscilla.

Alicia & Beth - offed by Priscilla

Destroyer - controlled by Clare without much explanation...

Priscilla - put in 'jail' along with Clare-Destroyer

AND NOW....the 3 new abyssal ones will once again conveniently wipe each other out. I just think it's too easy.

I could make a list of things that made the plot much more inconvenient for protagonists that is at least three times as long.

[Gooral]

@Shiek
It's not stupid, you just have to remember that these stats aren't absolute. But for the most part they have accurately shown who's stronger than who in certain departments and what's the biggest trait of certain Clamyores (e.g. for Undine it was strength, for Jean it was her mental power and strength, for Miria agility, etc.). The same goes for ABs, it can't be denied that Duff had one of the toughest armours we've seen so far.

@Dj0rel
When you consider that they're playing with fire, if there was no "inconvenience" it would be just stupid. For example Clare going alone to save a whole squad of Claymores (so she must have known that rescuing won't be easy considering everyone was captured) or Miria going alone to the centre of organization HQ or Helen and Deneve going to see Isley. The problem is that most of the time a miracle happens and in recent chapters the miracles are too big and too often. In short, I agree with hamstar.

[Nixl]

I am not sure I would agree that Yagi is just now making the plot too convenient. He has favorites and he is not letting them go any time soon (Miria, Helen, Deneve, etc).

-Priscilla not noticing Claire for no apparent reason after killing Teresa. Actually, that still bothers me. Claire "not reflecting in her eye" is most unexplainable to me. I am sure there are reasons, but I guess the plot would not go far if Claire got killed in her own flashback.

-Riful not joining the fight with Dauf, because it was more fun? She wanted them alive so they would join her, why in the hell send Dauf and his fatty fingers to get the job done?

-Claire suddenly saving the day with her super special technique from the Slasher's AB after Deneve, Helen, and Miria got manhandled. It may show, but I dislike them.


Honestly, if it has anything to do with Helen, Deneve, and Miria it is a free ride. I would also include Claire, but she has actually suffered some permanent damage as a result of the story. I think it depends on what we consider "convenient." Some convenient actions fit, most don't. And don't get me started on the god damn Dauf cat tit hands.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Gooral

It's not stupid, you just have to remember that these stats aren't absolute. But for the most part they have accurately shown who's stronger than who in certain departments and what's the biggest trait of certain Clamyores (e.g. for Undine it was strength, for Jean it was her mental power and strength, for Miria agility, etc.). The same goes for ABs, it can't be denied that Duff had one of the toughest armours we've seen so far.

I think that's what it is.

When you make it mathematical or something akin to video-game-terms, it does make it pretty black/white and clear-cut; when it's not as easy as that.

You are right, that their are many instances and ways of looking at things where, one character obviously has a much higher ability in a certain trait then somebody else, but it may not be so obvious as all that, especially if said-trait isn't flawless or has weaknesses that another person of a much weaker quality (which undoubtedly gets them a lower stat), can take advantage of.

The whole thing is very conventional, let's put it that way - it doesn't take into account other things; stats are often right, but in a superficial sense -- Claire's speed was huge when she partially-awoke for instance, but did the stat take into account her lack of control? I doubt it.

Plus, there are other things....Jean has high 'mental power' - what on earth does mean? Is this in the context of fighting/tactical-speaking, or just in general? Jean does have a strong will, yes, but was that what they were referring too?

See where I'm getting at?

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Gooral

@Dj0rel
When you consider that they're playing with fire, if there was no "inconvenience" it would be just stupid. For example Clare going alone to save a whole squad of Claymores (so she must have known that rescuing won't be easy considering everyone was captured) or Miria going alone to the centre of organization HQ or Helen and Deneve going to see Isley. The problem is that most of the time a miracle happens and in recent chapters the miracles are too big and too often. In short, I agree with hamstar.

True. However, just as often, "inconvenience" comes from situations that protagonists cannot be blamed for. For example, is it Miria's (or maybe Deneve's or Clare's) fault that the organization found a way to successfully conduct the experiment that revived three former no1 warriors and at the same time brainwash them into attacking the rebels? (Something which was much closer to being an actual ass-pull than all the other things you complained about)

[TheRussianMeatClob]

Originally Posted by Nixl

-Riful not joining the fight with Dauf, because it was more fun? She wanted them alive so they would join her, why in the hell send Dauf and his fatty fingers to get the job done?

Because if she didn't let him have his fun he would get moody and put on more weight.

[Nixl]

I thought Claymores do not get fat?


Obese Helen fetish is go.

edit: If AB/Claymore's have stats does that mean Deneve put points into doctor skill?

[TheRussianMeatClob]

Originally Posted by Nixl

I thought Claymores do not get fat?


Obese Helen fetish is go.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

Originally Posted by Nixl

If AB/Claymore's have stats does that mean Deneve put points into doctor skill?

No she also has the Jinxed trait every time she uses the Doctor skill theres a chance it ends in a critical failure and she does more harm then good.

[Nixl]

Helen: Deneve! Deneve! Why don't you look at me anymore?
Deneve: I-it's not you, it's me. I have...Undine's Wedge. Yep, a severe case of it too.
Helen:Funny, never heard of that before, sounds made up.
Deneve: Oh no no it is real just super new so no one knows anything about it. Trust me, it is THE only explanation, no ambiguity, end of line.
Helen: ...

And then Helen awakened into a Friendasaur.

Originally Posted by TheRussianMeatClob

No she also has the Jinxed trait every time she uses the Doctor skill theres a chance it ends in a critical failure and she does more harm then good.

Or just maybe...Deneve is the pariah dog.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Roflmao, you do realize you also fall into that category? ("random person on the internet")

Yeah, I know (obviously).

Strange how you think a theory is suddenly better just because it's one the author made up; you're really underestimating yourself and everyone around you.

I don't understand whats not clear about this. Yes of course the theory is going to be better if the Author made it up because he is the one who writes the story.

Getting less-then-satisfactory answers verbally spoken out-loud bluntly by a blunt character....that doesn't make me feel like all my theorizing was worthwhile...instead, that makes you feel dumb and make you wonder why you spent all that time theorizing and having fun with it in the first place. The problem isn't so much that an answer we get may feel out-of-place but, what's worse, the manner in which it was revealed was out-of-place too.

Well i don't think the answers are ever out of place. Is Deneve just going to assume that the rest of the Ghost know whats going on? No she explains it to them because she is intelligent and can understand a situation quickly.

She also leads them a little bit too.

Imagine you are watching Inception or some super-complicated thriller....and Ben Stein showed in the middle to dryly explain what was going on....it may seem funny at first (, I love that guy), but you'd feel like an idiot for thinking so much and having so much fun with it; your interest and respect for the movie would start going down because you'd know he would just dryly explain everything was going on....gee, that sure sounds exciting huh?

That example is piss-poor. Ben Stein has no place in that movie while Deneve has an important role in Claymore. It would have been better if Leonardo DiCaprio would have explained because a lot of people couldn't understand it. I understood it fine but my friends and my family couldn't get what was going on so the started to not like the movie because they couldn't follow it. I had to explain to them what was going on over and over again.

Great movie by the way.

I honestly wonder how you've managed to get into Claymore in the first place then....their are a million things, such as things concerning Claire and Priscilla, that haven't been answered since the pre-timeskip and the manga has been going on for years

Mystery and Ambiguity don't mean very much to me. I don't read mystery novels or things like that very often. I like action/adventure stuff and things like that. I got into Claymore because of the Anime. I was drawn into it by Clare and Raki because i was curious about them and what was going on in the show. I didn't know anything about the show at all and was only curious about it because it was recommended for me on Netflix.

I mean you sound like a very impatient person (no offense) who has to get all the answers right away....with Claymore though, more likely then not, you will end up waiting a long long time.

I am not an impatient person i just prefer things up front. I prefer honesty and i am not afraid of being blunt with people. I can be impatient, or i can be very patient. It depends on the situation.

Roflmao, okay, I'm not going there - I've already made my stance on that issue, hilariously actually recently in the 120 thread which you yourself were a part of (here's a link to the last page; funny enough, you yourself even sort of got confused which made me think my words were finally getting to you http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...ul#post3848842).

That link means nothing. What were you trying to prove? Clare is the protagonist
and priscilla is the Antagonist. The story is about Clare, she is the main character. She wants revenge. the other ghosts want revenge too, on the Organization.
REVENGE!!!.

Roflmao, you think I'm being passive-aggressive? Why, because I like using emocons and saying things like "rofl"?

Yeah people do that because they think they are right while someone else is wrong. It happens all the time. people use "lol" in that sort or way A LOT more than anyone ever needs too. You just use "roflmao". It doesn't offend me or anything but it is just something i will never write. I try not to use "lol" or "lmao". If i think something is funny, i will say so.

[Shiek927]

Claymore! can we stop beating a dead-horse and just say, for the nth time, that we "agree to disagree"?

I mean really - we're completely opposite and we're not going to obviously move on this subject, which is fine, because it's like that with many things and issues.

Let's just move on already

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Claymore! can we stop beating a dead-horse and just say, for the nth time, that we "agree to disagree"?

I mean really - we're completely opposite and we're not going to obviously move on this subject, which is fine, because it's like that with many things and issues.

Let's just move on already

Yeah sure. lets talk about something else. How about........

Raki!

[Nixl]

Raki? You mean the author's overly convenient observer? And, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Raki? You mean the author's overly convenient observer? And, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

The point was that Raki is so controversial.
Like the topic we were just discussing

[Dark Night]

Probably what Goral said about the stats not being absolute, but they kinda make some sense. Some of the time.

I still don't follow Helen suddenly being able to see Hysteria's movements in the space of just a few minutes and being able to react to them to boot. Or freaking number 15 managing to cut one of Hysteria's legs without even a yoki boost. Or--

You know what? f**k that.

Who seems to be winning? I remember people saying Cassandra seemed the strongest, but so far it seems the two are evenly matched. Though admittedly we only got a few glimpses.

Lol @ Nixl

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Claymore!

Yeah sure. lets talk about something else. How about........

Raki!

He didn't make an appearance in this chapter. For all we know he could be giving CPR to Raftela while she's only pretending to be dead.

[Gooral]

Even though Claymore isn't doing too well in magazine rankings, tankobons sell well:

Spoiler for sales:

Originally Posted by Negative Syndicate

Current Series Recent Volume Sales (based on Oricon):

01. Ao no Exorcist Volume 7 = 795,573
02. D.Gray-man Volume 22 = 516,477
03. Shin Tennis no Oujisama Volume 7 = 342,703
04. To Love-Ru Darkness Volume 3 = 308,059
05. Gate 7 Volume 2 = 204,317
06. Claymore Volume 21 = 196,067
07. Masuda Kousuke Gekijou Gag Manga Biyori Volume 12 = 143,569
08. Tegami Bachi Volume 13 = 114,914
09. Kure-nai Volume 8 = 94,830
10. Houkago no Oujisama Volume 2 = 84,847
11. Kakkokawaii Sengen! Volume 2 = 73,780
12. Rosario to Vampire seasonII Volume 10 = 66,428
13. Embalming -The Another Tale of Frankenstein- Volume 6 = 39,999
14. Binbougami ga! Volume 11 = 35,010
15. Papa no Iukoto o Kikinasai! Volume 1 = 23,023

[Ghost Knight]

Miria playing Superman or Flash, than Claire should be Batman? Chapter is good.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Ghost Knight

Miria playing Superman or Flash, than Claire shoud be Batman? Chapter is good.

But.... Clare already played Batman...

I mean just look at the parallels between Bruce Wayne dealing with his parents death and Clare dealing with Teresa's death. So literally Clare's back story is a female take on Batman's backstory thrown into a medieval setting with flesh eating monsters vs crime syndicates in a modern city.

If you're still not convinced try watching this video of Clare's time after Teresa's death to becoming a warrior and meeting Raki, to the theme music of Batman Begins and try to say you still do not see the parallels. It would be pretty hard IMHO to not see it.