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Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 16:26

Would this be a means to get people to start using massive units that generally don't get used (Ultralisk for example) before all the more radical changes in HotS come out?

Nixl · 2012-02-11, 16:28

Based on Blizzards/David Kim's response, yes. Although, it seemed that Snipe was used primarily to take down broodlords instead of ultras.

edit: I would say Ultras get used, but they are definitely eaten by Stimmed Marine/Marauders. Broodlords on the other hand are a damn good means at pressuring a line. I wonder how Swarm Hosts will perform.

Who · 2012-02-11, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixl

edit: Hope you do not mind me asking, but what is your league Who? I am curious and trying to find people to potentially practice with. That and, I generally like plain matches instead of ranked ladder.

I'm in Diamond League

Nixl · 2012-02-11, 18:19

Mutha f*ckin Diamonds,

Sorry, I had the urge to say that for no good reason. Damn that is a nice position Who.

I need to practice practice and break through ladder anxiety. I am too nooby at the moment.

edit: Meant to ask Who, has the ladder changed much in terms of macro games? In season 1/2 I kept getting cheesed hard. Wondering if that still stands. Not like it changes much, but macro games are definitely fun.

~~Pocari_Sweat~~ · 2012-02-11, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who

Assuming that Blizzard pushes this change and keeps it this way all the way up to LotV, I personally feel that using MMA as a focus point on his success without ghosts isn't really helpful. The reason behind that being that MMA is what, top 2, if not THE best TvZer in the world right now and nearly all the people who play SC2 right now lack his multitask and APM to shrug their shoulders at the ghost change like him.

I would go further and say MMA is the best player of the world at the moment. Dongraegu is also probably the strongest zerg player atm too. Nestea has been slumpign for a while now, and MVP has been getting his butt kicked by MMA in the last 3 months. MMA's TvP which was considered really weak, seems to be largely busted, it's probably only slightly less bad then MVP's. However, MMA's TvZ and TvT are just as good if not better than MVPs.

-------------------------------------

In regards to Seeker Missile, most of the time it's useless but it does see use in lategame TvT viking wars. Air units tend to bunch up and a few seeker missiles means the death of the opposition's airforce. This is just my hypothesis but I think it may be possible to use the same priniciple in lategame TvZ against mass broodlord/corrupter/infestor armies as well. But yeh, ravens in general are trash in comparison to their science vessel counterpart. I'll take irradiate and matrix over pdd and seeker missile anyday.

Alaya · 2012-02-13, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who

Assuming that Blizzard pushes this change and keeps it this way all the way up to LotV, I personally feel that using MMA as a focus point on his success without ghosts isn't really helpful. The reason behind that being that MMA is what, top 2, if not THE best TvZer in the world right now and nearly all the people who play SC2 right now lack his multitask and APM to shrug their shoulders at the ghost change like him.

That being said, after thinking about it, I need to try it out on PTR first. I don't use Ghosts that much in TvZ to begin with; most my games on ladders are dictated by my hellion harass and my first/second push.

Balance is not that importance in lower than Master League, so I would say the pro scene is a good measurement how balance the game is, although it is not exclusive.

Although using stat of a single or some pros is not a very good idea. For example, IdrA is currently 1-18 or 1-19 since the start of 2012, while other Zergs seem to melt their opponents' faces.

Flying Dagger · 2012-02-13, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaya

Balance is not that importance in lower than Master League

Not necessary true. Balance affects all skill levels equally. With a high skill capped game such as starcraft you can *always* play better. Back in GSL open season 1, where the balance of races are pretty slanted, fruitdealer still managed to pull a win.

@HSM:
While BLs cannot run away from HSM (esp since the patch upgrade), BLs also spread out pretty well (because of their slow speed?) making the splash not as effective. Ravens also cost valuable starport time (competes with vikings), cost valuable gas, and HSM are not readily available.

StarFox117 · 2012-02-13, 10:43

I still remember my first SCII offline game; I felt qualified to battle a Zerg Army at the "Medium" difficulty and that's what I did. Ten minutes later, I was starting at my destroyed base in total shock.

Nixl · 2012-02-13, 12:28

I practice macro on very hard and it actually seems that Blizzard changes the AI's strats every so often. It is quite nice of them to do that. Then again, nothing quite matches fighting another player.

Strangely enough, even though I set it to random AI, terran constitute the clear majority of the AI I fight.

edit: Forgot to add, I do not think there is anyway to make Seeker Missile worthwhile without making it overly ridiculous. Otherwise, who is going to send a meek 200 gas starport unit with only enough energy for 1 missile into the fray.

Alaya · 2012-02-14, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Not necessary true. Balance affects all skill levels equally. With a high skill capped game such as starcraft you can *always* play better. Back in GSL open season 1, where the balance of races are pretty slanted, fruitdealer still managed to pull a win.

@HSM:
While BLs cannot run away from HSM (esp since the patch upgrade), BLs also spread out pretty well (because of their slow speed?) making the splash not as effective. Ravens also cost valuable starport time (competes with vikings), cost valuable gas, and HSM are not readily available.

No, balance does not affect all skill levels equally. It have effects on every level, but the effect is far more prominent in the top pro level than in lower leagues. Lower league players tend to have inferior macro, micro and decision making, which is not affected by balance. Their losses are mostly from those problems than from balance.

It's true that the skill gap keeps increasing as time goes by. But those who increase it are pro players, not diamond league players or even master players. Arbitrary, if the highest skill is 500 right now. Those who perform at around 450+ are only really affected by balance, while the rest can still improve on something else without thinking about balance.

For the opposite side of the spectrum, well just look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/view...opic_id=308882

Pretty much people throw out "X race is OP" balance stuff without realizing that they are at their own faults.

SaintessHeart · 2012-02-14, 04:44

Impossible is impossible :

Ithekro · 2012-02-14, 04:52

Sounds like something that won't happen for another ten to twenty years...depending on how many hardcore Korean Starcraft II players are having children....and daughters.

Jaden · 2012-02-14, 06:48

If that's how it really worked it'd be great for the human race.

Flying Dagger · 2012-02-14, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Sounds like something that won't happen for another ten to twenty years...depending on how many hardcore Korean Starcraft II players are having children....and daughters.

Seeing how the gsl lady was pregnant, and the same goes to Artosis' gf...
Boxer needs to start something with Jessica really really soon.

Kyuu · 2012-02-14, 06:55

Beating the father at Starcraft? Try beating the girl at Starcraft.

~~Pocari_Sweat~~ · 2012-02-14, 06:56

Boxer already has a son... his name is MMA, and he is currently the #1 world player atm probably. See what I did there?

Paranoid Android · 2012-02-14, 09:57

Are there even any female grandmasters? The ones that get invited to pro teams are always trashy gold league-rs when there's ass-kicking high masters female gamers, but they don't get invited because they don't look as cute >__> So stupid and sad.

More importantly, boxer should have a 3-way marriage with jessica and yellow

Demongod86 · 2012-02-15, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Boxer already has a son... his name is MMA, and he is currently the #1 world player atm probably. See what I did there?

Win.

And in terms of the women, am I the only one that doesn't find them attractive because they all look practically identical to me?

SaintessHeart · 2012-02-15, 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Win.

And in terms of the women, am I the only one that doesn't find them attractive because they all look practically identical to me?

That makes for the excuse of "Sorry, I did the wrong girl last night, but she looks and acts like you!"

Paranoid Android · 2012-02-15, 16:05

Was browsing some thread on teamliquid and found this. It made me laugh out loud at work x'(

2012-02-11, 16:26	Link #7581
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Would this be a means to get people to start using massive units that generally don't get used (Ultralisk for example) before all the more radical changes in HotS come out? __________________

2012-02-11, 18:19	Link #7584
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Mutha fckin Diamonds, Sorry, I had the urge to say that for no good reason. Damn that is a nice position Who. I need to practice practice and break through ladder anxiety. I am too nooby at the moment. edit: Meant to ask Who, has the ladder changed much in terms of macro games? In season 1/2 I kept getting cheesed hard. Wondering if that still stands. Not like it changes much, but macro games are definitely fun. Last edited by Nixl; 2012-02-11 at 18:41.*

2012-02-13, 12:28	Link #7589
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	I practice macro on very hard and it actually seems that Blizzard changes the AI's strats every so often. It is quite nice of them to do that. Then again, nothing quite matches fighting another player. Strangely enough, even though I set it to random AI, terran constitute the clear majority of the AI I fight. edit: Forgot to add, I do not think there is anyway to make Seeker Missile worthwhile without making it overly ridiculous. Otherwise, who is going to send a meek 200 gas starport unit with only enough energy for 1 missile into the fray. Last edited by Nixl; 2012-02-13 at 13:58.

2012-02-14, 04:44	Link #7591
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	Impossible is impossible : __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2012-02-14, 04:52	Link #7592
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Sounds like something that won't happen for another ten to twenty years...depending on how many hardcore Korean Starcraft II players are having children....and daughters. __________________

2012-02-11, 16:28	Link #7582
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Based on Blizzards/David Kim's response, yes. Although, it seemed that Snipe was used primarily to take down broodlords instead of ultras. edit: I would say Ultras get used, but they are definitely eaten by Stimmed Marine/Marauders. Broodlords on the other hand are a damn good means at pressuring a line. I wonder how Swarm Hosts will perform.

2012-02-13, 10:43	Link #7588
StarFox117 Member Join Date: Feb 2011	I still remember my first SCII offline game; I felt qualified to battle a Zerg Army at the "Medium" difficulty and that's what I did. Ten minutes later, I was starting at my destroyed base in total shock.

2012-02-14, 06:48	Link #7593
Jaden Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	If that's how it really worked it'd be great for the human race. __________________

2012-02-14, 06:55	Link #7595
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	Beating the father at Starcraft? Try beating the girl at Starcraft. __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2012-02-14, 06:56	Link #7596
~~Pocari_Sweat~~ <em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em> Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Australia	Boxer already has a son... his name is MMA, and he is currently the #1 world player atm probably. See what I did there?

2012-02-14, 09:57	Link #7597
Paranoid Android Underweight Food Hoarder Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Kitch-Water and T.O., Canada Age: 33	Are there even any female grandmasters? The ones that get invited to pro teams are always trashy gold league-rs when there's ass-kicking high masters female gamers, but they don't get invited because they don't look as cute >__> So stupid and sad. More importantly, boxer should have a 3-way marriage with jessica and yellow

2012-02-15, 16:05	Link #7600
Paranoid Android Underweight Food Hoarder Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Kitch-Water and T.O., Canada Age: 33	Was browsing some thread on teamliquid and found this. It made me laugh out loud at work x'(