[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[xKeir]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

we never saw his crushed face. you're assuming the boulder is a perfect sphere or a solid shape without indentation. His face could have been spared while the right portion of his body was crushed causing him to lose all his feeling.

I thought about what you said about the boulder and ....

After 5 mins ...

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS.

[hamstar]

If tobi turns out NOT to be Obito I'll give Kishimoto props for creativity. Because right now as it stands there is nobody else that can deliver the impact and story telling at the climax of the manga. Tobi being Obito allows Kishi to tell a bunch of stories through flashback:

1. What happened to Obito after being buried alive
2. The story of how Obito's life was saved by Zetsu and how Zetsu changed obito's body to what it is today.
3. Why Obito turned to the dark side (this will serve us to understand obito's perspective of the ninja world and what jaded him to this point ----> Rin's death, possibly several other things)

After a volume or so of flashbacks Kishi can return the manga back to the present where Kakashi is devastated and mind-raped. To add to the drama, tobi/obito needs to kill 1 or more characters so that the readers can hate him because thus far he's failing to make readers hate him. Getting Naruto's parents, jiraiya and Uchiha's killed off by proxy is one thing but the readers need to something more tangible - somebody important like kakashi will probably be killed off directly by tobi/obito in a dramatic fashion to do this. Without doing this, the final villain is lame and doesn't live up to his hype.

Because of all of the reasons I've mentioned, it's very likely Kishi will make Obito be the Narutoesque Uchiha that turned to the dark side. the revealing won't be that far off. Madara vs 5 kages is practically over now his secret has been shown and with that we can all acknowledge that kabuto without his trump card is finished. Itachi vs Sasuke probably won't even materialise and the fights we have left are Naruto vs sasuke and Naruto et al. vs Obito/Tobi.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by xKeir

I thought about what you said about the boulder and ....

After 5 mins ...

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS.

hehe =) it may be a long shot, but in these shonen mangas, it's generally a good rule of thumb to never assume anything unless it is blatantly revealed to be a fact. the authors do it on purpose most of the time so that they can change the direction of the story if needed and it will all still make sense despite them writing another storyline than previously intended at the time of the source event.

point being that the option for tobi being obito is still very much open for kishi to use and I believe he planned it that way whether he uses him or not

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

hehe =) it may be a long shot, but in these shonen mangas, it's generally a good rule of thumb to never assume anything unless it is blatantly revealed to be a fact. the authors do it on purpose most of the time so that they can change the direction of the story if needed and it will all still make sense despite them writing another storyline than previously intended at the time of the source event.

point being that the option for tobi being obito is still very much open for kishi to use and I believe he planned it that way whether he uses him or not

When Tobi attacked Minato he was as tall as Minato yet if Tobi was using Obito's body he should have been a lot shorter then Minato like Kakashi was at the time.

This means Tobi can't have been using Obito's body unless he made the body grow taller faster then Kakashi.


However Kishi could just say Tobi is anyone for example Kishi could troll us and say Tobi is a character we haven't meet before from the Uchiha clan called Tobi Uchiha.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by TimeMask

When Tobi attacked Minato he was as tall as Minato yet if Tobi was using Obito's body he should have been a lot shorter then Minato like Kakashi was at the time.

This means Tobi can't have been using Obito's body unless he made the body grow taller faster then Kakashi.

Nah. Tobi was not "as tall as" Minato. Actually, Minato's height is 179.2cm while Tobi's is 175cm - almost a 2 inch difference. And on top of that, I'm not sure how your argument proves anything. Obito would have been 14-15 year old at the time. Are you saying that it is impossible for someone that age to be 175 cm tall (i.e. 5'9")?

The fact that Tobi was wearing a baggy cloak, adds more suspicion to Obito. The cloak could have been a way for Kishimoto to hide Obito's smaller adolescent frame.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Nah. Tobi was not "as tall as" Minato. Actually, Minato's height is 179.2cm while Tobi's is 175cm - almost a 2 inch difference. And on top of that, I'm not sure how your argument proves anything. Obito would have been 14-15 year old at the time. Are you saying that it is impossible for someone that age to be 175 cm tall (i.e. 5'9")?

The fact that Tobi was wearing a baggy cloak, adds more suspicion to Obito. The cloak could have been a way for Kishimoto to hide Obito's smaller adolescent frame.

^this. also, in that naruto birth flashback kakashi and gai looked to be nearly adults and had their identical adult voices. obito would have aged just the same. in fact, it seemed a little weird that kakashi and gai were so adultish at that time which might be compensating for the eventual obito reveal to explain why he seemed so adultish as tobi at that time

[Retcon_Man]

You guys do realize the repercussions of Obito being Tobi, right? It ruins Kakashi's character and Obito's in a sense. All of Kakashi's growth up until now will have become moot. Obito was the one to encourage Kakashi to live like his father, to fight for his friends, and so on. It was Obito that made Kakashi take up the habit of being late, lazy, and uninterested in many things of daily life. To pass on to his own students this teaching which inspired what Naruto is today. It's been over 500 chapters of solid character development, and for Tobi to take off his mask and reveal he's Obito, would destroy everything. It would mean Obito's sacrifice was questionable. His "ninja way" would change, after sacrificing his own life to live by it. Everything. Sure Kishi could do it. He's not the brightest writer in the world, but if this does happen, Naruto then will drop in quality even more than it already has. Retconning Obito's character would be horrible.

[Hiking_Bear]

I don't think Obito ever became evil. I think it's more likely that his mind was taken over by something Madara did before his death. In that case, Obito is even more of a victim than if he had died back in Kakashi Gaiden. Plus, if Obito is being controlled, it gives Kakashi a chance to redeem himself and save his friend. All in all, I think a Tobi=Obito reveal would work in favor of Kakshi's storyline. Kakashi had two major events that defined his character - one was his father's death and the other was Obito's death. During the Pain-attacks-Konaha arc, Kakashi got closure on his relationship with his father. Now, he just needs closure on his relationship with Obito.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Retcon_Man

You guys do realize the repercussions of Obito being Tobi, right? It ruins Kakashi's character and Obito's in a sense. All of Kakashi's growth up until now will have become moot. Obito was the one to encourage Kakashi to live like his father, to fight for his friends, and so on. It was Obito that made Kakashi take up the habit of being late, lazy, and uninterested in many things of daily life. To pass on to his own students this teaching which inspired what Naruto is today. It's been over 500 chapters of solid character development, and for Tobi to take off his mask and reveal he's Obito, would destroy everything. It would mean Obito's sacrifice was questionable. His "ninja way" would change, after sacrificing his own life to live by it. Everything. Sure Kishi could do it. He's not the brightest writer in the world, but if this does happen, Naruto then will drop in quality even more than it already has. Retconning Obito's character would be horrible.

that's what makes it interesting. it's similar to jiraiya's cute little students growing up to be the heads of akatsuki and killing him. it's a pattern of teacher/student or student/student relationships that is prevalent in naruto, where someone close to our heroes goes 'bad' at some point or loses their way on the path they once set out on.

it's true that kakashi was influenced by obito when he knew him, but now kakashi is his own person. obito being tobi would be a mindrape for sure, but it would test just how strong kakashi actually has become in his own character and his own goals and ideals. it's similar to naruto and sasuke. naruto's developed so strongly that it seems that no matter what sasuke does, naruto's resolve never waivers.

edit: or like hiking bear said: obito may not be in control, or full control anyway. either way it works fine for the story

[ranchan13]

Tobi being Obito is an impossibility, because Obito would have still been a teenager when Naruto was born. And of course, Tobi was there at Naruto's birth, and already a full grown adult.

[Kakashi_Love]

I think Tobi being Kagami is a more plausible theory.

[Teru987]

The one thing that really bothers me about the Tobi/Obito things is that fact that is were alot of Uchiha's when Obito died. What makes Obito special? For the eye argument (how Kakashi can use space time and since its Obito eyes and Tobi uses it then they are the same) when Obito Sharingan awoke it was in the SAME BATTLE HE DIED IN!! :O I highly doubt that Madara would have know he awoken it and if he did then Kakashi would have been targeted for it.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Teru987

What makes Obito special?

its a good question. i imagine he had to have something going for him to end up on Minato's squad. he was obviously talented, but perhaps he was also related to someone talented...maybe it was guts...i dunno

[Teru987]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

its a good question. i imagine he had to have something going for him to end up on Minato's squad. he was obviously talented, but perhaps he was also related to someone talented...maybe it was guts...i dunno

Maybe but all Uchiha's were gifted. I wish they would have explained more then he died and kakashi got his eye.

[Hiking_Bear]

I think we're going to find out that Obito was special in some way. We never got an explanation for why Kakashi has MS (without killing his closest friend) or why Kakashi's MS performs Kamui rather than Amaterasu or Tsukiyomi. My personal belief is that Obito was chosen as a baby to be a host for part of Madara's soul/chakra.

I don't think Kakashi's Kamui is a result of implantation, considering Danzou implanted many Sharingan and yet never showed the ability to perform Kamui.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Teru987

The one thing that really bothers me about the Tobi/Obito things is that fact that is were alot of Uchiha's when Obito died. What makes Obito special? For the eye argument (how Kakashi can use space time and since its Obito eyes and Tobi uses it then they are the same) when Obito Sharingan awoke it was in the SAME BATTLE HE DIED IN!! :O I highly doubt that Madara would have know he awoken it and if he did then Kakashi would have been targeted for it.

madara and/or tobi are the biggest experts on the sharingan in the entire series. it's not unreasonable for madara to have known obito's eyes had the potential for MS. as for not taking kakashi's eye, that's exactly what makes it logical for tobi to be, at least in part, obito. if tobi had no personal connection to kakashi then he would have taken it by now

[Teru987]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

I think we're going to find out that Obito was special in some way. We never got an explanation for why Kakashi has MS (without killing his closest friend) or why Kakashi's MS performs Kamui rather than Amaterasu or Tsukiyomi.

I don't think Kakashi's Kamui is a result of implantation, considering Danzou implanted many Sharingan and yet never showed the ability to perform Kamui.

I was thinking maybe some how it mutated with his blood or something cool like that and didn't Shisui get his MS without killing Itachi?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Teru987

I was thinking maybe some how it mutated with his blood or something cool like that and didn't Shisui get his MS without killing Itachi?

we don't know how shisui got his MS either. I don't think the kamui tech is a mutation. it was inherent in obito's eyes, like how itachi's MS came with his 3 techs without him having to do anything (aside from future training of course)

[Teru987]

I hope they reveal what is on the tablet in the Uchiha Hideout so we can know if you need to kill someone close to you to get MS.

[prakash123]

if obito=tobi blah blah...
maybe obito gave kakashi his eye for safekeeping like what itachi gave naruto without naruto knowing what it was.
maybe its some kind of fail safe.then when tobi needs it back hes gonna take it back