[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[unsuspectingvisitor]

Kyrie didn't miss at all , Beatrice was definitely hit by a bullet but that doesn't mean she's dead. Just look at Lion, He/She even manage to run and leave the theater on his/her own even though he/she was shot on the chest.

Anyway, this is what caught my attention while rereading ep7 tea party. The narrator said, during that time Eva was crying over her dead husband," The remains of her beloved husband lay beside her. And Krauss, Natsuhi, and Rosa's corpses. It was a room of death and piled up bodies."The narrator never told us about Beatrice's corpse . This makes me think that Beatrice might still be alive at that time. She probably left the room after Kyrie and Rudolf went out, using the secret passage as a way out. Remember the man-hole in Ep4 where Shannon died? It was connected to the secret passage so Beatrice probably used that as exit to go to the Guesthouse.

That's what i think about what the narrator said at that time so feel free to reply.

[GreyZone]

Hmm interesting. It would explain why Battler diappeared all of a sudden.

Originally Posted by EP7 TP

`Eva was holding Hideyoshi's body and crying.`@`She hadn't been shot at all.`@` The bullet had scraped against the side of her head......and missed.`\

`She hadn't been playing dead.`@` She really thought that she had been shot.`@`When Kyrie's gun spat fire, Eva felt something swift and fierce scrape past her head...`@`before feeling light-headed and fainting.`\

`Then, later on, she woke up in the now silent room of the gold.`\

So maybe something like: Yasu realized what chaos she caused and same as Eva was only scrapped by Kyrie's gun. Then she stood up before Eva woke up again, because The narration does not include anything about "Beatrice's" corpse, after Eva wakes up. Yasu proceeds to exit the gold room and hurries to the guest house. On her way there she meets Battler who is still thinking he will be tested by Kinzo. When he sees Yasu in her dress he is totally shocked to see the witch of the portrait and thinks that she is part of the test and follows her. She tries to save the other cousins from the guest house but on her way there she sees Kyrie with her gun. After some time Battler realized what just happened after Yasu explained everything to him and then he follows her into safety.

I think we still don't understand what meaning the tea parties and the ???TPs really have... maybe they are the key of understanding everything...

[RandomAvatarFan]

Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor

I just reread ep7 tea party and i found something interesting. I found a possibility that this tea party and the story about Battler escaping with Beatrice on a boat in Ep8 was somehow connected.

But i am not entirely sure about this so I'll ask you guys this question first.

Are those two stories really connected ? Was his story a continuation of what happened after the killing in "that tea party"?

I think it doesn't matter.
Since this is in the EP7 thread, I'll put my reply in spoiler tags

Spoiler for EP8 Plot:

Bern's game in EP8 also used Rudolf Family Culprit Theory in a very similar manner. (funny though, how BATTLER doesn't seem to go "But I can't suspect my family!" mode like he would have back in EP1, or how Ange acted in EP7 TP)

Bern did not finish her red in EP7 TP, remember? It's the truth... of a sort. What kind of truth would that be then?

Battler and Beatrice escaping in EP8 may be the true ending to all games. It doesn't matter what story they tell, the end result is the same. It doesn't matter if Eva is the culprit or if Kyrie is the culprit, in the end, this is the result.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan

I think it doesn't matter.
Since this is in the EP7 thread, I'll put my reply in spoiler tags

Spoiler for EP8 Plot:

Bern's game in EP8 also used Rudolf Family Culprit Theory in a very similar manner. (funny though, how BATTLER doesn't seem to go "But I can't suspect my family!" mode like he would have back in EP1, or how Ange acted in EP7 TP)

Bern did not finish her red in EP7 TP, remember? It's the truth... of a sort. What kind of truth would that be then?

Battler and Beatrice escaping in EP8 may be the true ending to all games. It doesn't matter what story they tell, the end result is the same. It doesn't matter if Eva is the culprit or if Kyrie is the culprit, in the end, this is the result.

Well it was actually:

Spoiler for EP8:

Originally Posted by EP8

`......That's right.`@` I was chained in place in that strange theater thing......and forced to watch a repulsive Fragment where Mom and Dad committed murder......`\

`"......I never said that what you saw was the truth."`@

`"B, but you used the red to......"`\

`"You yelled out and interrupted, and stopped me from saying any more.`@` ......This is all truth 'of a sort, but not necessarily true'.`@` That's what I was about to say."`@

So it is a "maybe". It's one fragment that may be partially right, but is not worth of red truth, unlike most of the book of one truth.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Unless Kyrie missed "Beatrice" in the gold room when she shot her.... no

This is how the scene is described

When the ringing of the gunfire died down, ......blood trickled from the witch's mouth, and she fell over onto the bed.

My guess is that Kyrie aimed at the heart... however Beatrice's fake breasts provided some sort of shield so the blow wasn't fatal.

Originally Posted by GreyZone

So maybe something like: Yasu realized what chaos she caused and same as Eva was only scrapped by Kyrie's gun. Then she stood up before Eva woke up again, because The narration does not include anything about "Beatrice's" corpse, after Eva wakes up. Yasu proceeds to exit the gold room and hurries to the guest house. On her way there she meets Battler who is still thinking he will be tested by Kinzo. When he sees Yasu in her dress he is totally shocked to see the witch of the portrait and thinks that she is part of the test and follows her. She tries to save the other cousins from the guest house but on her way there she sees Kyrie with her gun. After some time Battler realized what just happened after Yasu explained everything to him and then he follows her into safety.

I think we still don't understand what meaning the tea parties and the ???TPs really have... maybe they are the key of understanding everything...

My theory is more or less similar only I think that we should study better the times.

Kyrie kills Gohda then Rudolf phones to the cousins and tell George and Jessica to leave for the test.
Battler remains in the guesthouse with Maria while Rudolf leaves to kill George.

Eva wakes up (and presumably Yasu has already left).

Kyrie kills Jessica while Rudolf kills George.
Kyrie says Battler to go to the chapel, Rudolf tells Kyrie he killed George then goes back to the chapel.

Battler leaves the house (this happen less than 30 minutes from when George and Jessica left him).

Kyrie enters in the guesthouse to kill the remaining servants and Maria.
Rudolf reaches the chapel and begins to wait however Battler isn't showing up yet.

Eva joins him and kills him.

Kyrie finishes killing everyone and meets Eva to whom she says she has killed everyone.
Gunfight ensues, Kyrie dies.

Now, the scene of Eva waking up must have taken place at the same time with some of the following ones, otherwise Eva would have left the chapel just in time to see Rudolf kill George because it's hard to accept she woke up when George was called to the chapel and wasted more than 30 minutes mourning on Hideyoshi.

So we can't figure out when exactly Yasu also woke up and left. Prior to Eva but when?

If Yasu were to wake up before Rudolf were to be back to the chapel to kill George either Rudolf would see her or she would meet up with George (assuming she managed to not been seen by Rudolf).

My best guess is that Yasu woke up and tried to leave the chapel while Rudolf was out, busy killing George. She likely hear the gunshot and possibly hides. Rudolf doesn't see her and leaves. It's possible she goes checking who he killed. Meanwhile Eva wakes up.
Rudolf returns to the chapel, Yasu manages to slip past him.

From here it's possible:

- Yasu met Battler, slowing/stopping him from reaching the chapel. It's possible that Battler however reaches the chapel short after and sees Eva shooting at Rudolf though the shock will stop him from revealing his presence. As he 'recovers' he might have followed her just to hear her chat with Kyrie and see them trying to kill each other.

- Kyrie actually shoot Battler when she saw him leaving, not trusting Rudolf to persuade him. We just weren't told this part. Yasu might have found him wounded and taken him away.

- Battler actually reached the chapel prior to Rudolf and was shoot by Eva who believes him to be Rudolf's accomplice. This might be the truth Eva wanted to hide the most, the fact she shot Battler purposely to discover he was innocent.

- Battler was stalled by Yasu so he reached the chapel after Rudolf was killed and ended up being shoot by Eva (out of revenge or out of suspicion he was a culprit). As Eva leaves yasu reaches him and takes him away. It's more or less the same as before, only the time in which Battler was shoot changes and revenge is added to the reasons for which Eva might shoot him.

Spoiler for EP8 Plot:

Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan

Bern's game in EP8 also used Rudolf Family Culprit Theory in a very similar manner. (funny though, how BATTLER doesn't seem to go "But I can't suspect my family!" mode like he would have back in EP1, or how Ange acted in EP7 TP)

Bern did not finish her red in EP7 TP, remember? It's the truth... of a sort. What kind of truth would that be then?

Battler and Beatrice escaping in EP8 may be the true ending to all games. It doesn't matter what story they tell, the end result is the same. It doesn't matter if Eva is the culprit or if Kyrie is the culprit, in the end, this is the result.

I would like it if it was true but we know in the other 4th games this is unlikely.
In Ep 1 the bomb explodes at midnight when Shannon, Battler, Jessica, Maria and George are inside the house.
In Ep 2 Battler personally sees that Shannon has a hole in her skull.
In Ep 3 Battler was shoot... though Shannon was still alive and he might not have been dead yet. So she could have carried him away.
In Ep 4 Battler again personally witnessed Shannon's dead body. He also was in the house when the bomb went off.

So, at best, they survived in game 3... which would be interesting if we pair game 3 with game 7 where Eva also survives.

[AuraTwilight]

My guess is that Kyrie aimed at the heart... however Beatrice's fake breasts provided some sort of shield so the blow wasn't fatal.

Pads do not work that way. Besides, Beatrice isn't described as being in any pain when she and Battler were escaping, and it kind of takes the punch out of her suicide since, you know, tricking blood out of the mouth is fatal.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Pads do not work that way. Besides, Beatrice isn't described as being in any pain when she and Battler were escaping, and it kind of takes the punch out of her suicide since, you know, tricking blood out of the mouth is fatal.

She replaced herself with a doll that looks like her when the adults were arguing about the gold.

Yes that was a joke... but still the fact remains that in the corpse count "Beatrice's" corpse was not included. This smells like 1st game - 1st twilight...

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

She replaced herself with a doll that looks like her when the adults were arguing about the gold.

Yes that was a joke... but still the fact remains that in the corpse count "Beatrice's" corpse was not included. This smells like 1st game - 1st twilight...

LOL that's an interesting theory... and it's true she's also compared to a large French doll wearing a black dress...
It would be fun if she actually were an automatic doll. Though to have blood trickle down her mouth she needs to be alive... and either be seriously injured or do something like bite one of her lips hard.

So the doll's option is sadly ruled out... unless it's a very realistic doll with blood included... and would you put past Kinzo the fact he owned a Beatrice doll who was that realistic? ^_-

[GreyZone]

Oh...

I wouldn't put it past him. ^^





Also: There was Ketchup hidden in the doll that started coming out after the shot.

[AuraTwilight]

Guys, complex devices.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Oh...

I wouldn't put it past him. ^^





Also: There was Ketchup hidden in the doll that started coming out after the shot.

This is a beautiful explanation!

[rogerpepitone]

jjblue1: Battler did see Shannon's corpse in Episode 3:


bg black,22
;　譲治の兄貴は、紗音ちゃんの遺体と一緒に倒れていた。@
`George-aniki had fallen alongside Shannon-chan's corpse.`@
br
;　胸が真っ赤に染まっている。@そして見開いたままの瞳からは、@…絵羽伯母さんには悪いが、 @/
`His chest was stained bright red.`@` And from his still opened eyes,`@` ...I'd hate to say it to Eva oba-san, `@/

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

jjblue1: Battler did see Shannon's corpse in Episode 3:


bg black,22
;　譲治の兄貴は、紗音ちゃんの遺体と一緒に倒れていた。@
`George-aniki had fallen alongside Shannon-chan's corpse.`@
br
;　胸が真っ赤に染まっている。@そして見開いたままの瞳からは、@…絵羽伯母さんには悪いが、 @/
`His chest was stained bright red.`@` And from his still opened eyes,`@` ...I'd hate to say it to Eva oba-san, `@/

He saw Shannon lying next to George and likely assumed she was dead because he had been told so by the adults. He didn't personally check if she was alive or dead though and probably didn't even move closer.

And we know Shannon was supposedly alive because Eva couldn't have killed Nanjo.

Interesting enough in Ep 3 is said:

Trying to distract themselves from the loss of the people they liked, George and Jessica had spent the whole time since morning talking about every possibility.
......And, they had distracted their hearts by supposing that these murders might actually have all been an act, and that Shannon and Kanon were only pretending to be dead.

[unsuspectingvisitor]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Pads do not work that way. Besides, Beatrice isn't described as being in any pain when she and Battler were escaping, and it kind of takes the punch out of her suicide since, you know, tricking blood out of the mouth is fatal.

They left the island on the 3rd day so who knows what happened to them on the 2nd day. Someone probably did something about her wound at that time or she use alot of pain killers.

[RandomAvatarFan]

I might be arguing for the sake of arguing:

Originally Posted by jjblue1

In Ep 1 the bomb explodes at midnight when Shannon, Battler, Jessica, Maria and George are inside the house.
In Ep 2 Battler personally sees that Shannon has a hole in her skull.

Author Theory:
Yasu's message bottles containing Legend and Turn do not tell the truth of what happened in Prime, including Battler's death. Any red text concerning this are merely rules of a specific Fragment.

Even though EP8 says something different, I will continue:

Yasu's message bottles contained various plans for the incident and were sent out to sea before the murders occurred. However, Yasu did not follow through with the plans, and so certain characters were able to survive despite various Fragments that say otherwise.

As far as EP 3 and 4 go, well, I won't put that on the EP7 thread.

[AuraTwilight]

They left the island on the 3rd day so who knows what happened to them on the 2nd day. Someone probably did something about her wound at that time or she use alot of pain killers.

Look, Battler's not a fucking doctor. She was bleeding out the mouth, meaning she sustained enough internal damage that she was DYING. Nanjo was killed pretty early, so there's no way Battler could've done anything to save Yasu's life.

[Toku]

I wonder what the point is of connecting those two scenes anyway?

Spoiler for EP8:

I mean, I guess it's possible, but I don't see why it would matter. "October 6, 1986" looks very much like a fantasy scene to me, and just one huge metaphor. And the EP7 Tea Party is already very suspicious due to Kyrie acting out of character (resorting to murder when that wasn't the rational thing to do), not to mention that Bern confirmed it wasn't necessarily the truth at all in EP8.

If anything, I think that the purpose of these two scenes is also different. EP7 TP is there to show us just how likely it is that Rudolf and Kyrie had something to do with the tragedy in Prime (as far as I can tell). And Oct 6 is... Well, that's much more open to interpretation, but at the very least, I don't see how you could take it literally, especially when Beatrice mentioned that the reason they must part is because Beatrice is from illusions and Battler is from reality, and the two cannot mix.

Though if Oct 6 really IS literal, that would mean that Battler was just like Asumu in that his phobia of transportation is an act. But at least for her, she had a reason to act. Why would he embarrass himself? Or maybe he just happened to get over it at that time... But to be honest, neither of these possibilities sounds likely.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan

Author Theory:
Yasu's message bottles containing Legend and Turn do not tell the truth of what happened in Prime, including Battler's death. Any red text concerning this are merely rules of a specific Fragment.

Even though EP8 says something different, I will continue:

Yasu's message bottles contained various plans for the incident and were sent out to sea before the murders occurred. However, Yasu did not follow through with the plans, and so certain characters were able to survive despite various Fragments that say otherwise.

I agree to both your statements.

[Remon]

That scene is really problematic. I thought of Beato could have used a gold ingot for bulletproofing instead of pads. But there's also the blood. Could she have prepared for that as well? (with the paint she uses for the magic circles) She couldn't have known she was going to get shot until Natsuhi's accidental death.

I tried looking for hints that would indicate a pattern to Kyrie's shooting. Something to give Beato the reason to stuff an ingot in her chest. I noticed that it constantly said that blood came dripping down from their mouths. If i'm not mistaken that happens when you're shot in the chest right? And there's also Hideyoshi clutching at his chest to further suggest this. Now if only the bullet had scraped Eva's boob it would have meant something. However it scraped her head.
I don't think it really matters anyway. Beato could have just entrusted her fate to the roulette. It's either my chest or my head. Though the bed she was lying on did have those suspicious curtains. Perhaps a curtain hanging over her head?

[AuraTwilight]

I don't even see why we're mining that EP7 tea party for connections to other scenes when Bernkastel explicitly announced in EP8 that it was basically a big fuckin' troll.