Friendship

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by warita

I dont like it, when people assume that grass will grow over it and later, they can pretend nothing ever happened.

For sure, there are certain things that should be discussed. But in the case I was talking about, the reason why people got upset was over sports and perceived lack of loyalty. There was probably a bit more to it than that, but I'm not going to go into the analysis here: the point is that people became deeply upset over an issue that, if you take a step back, really isn't a big deal. Definitely not worth cutting a friendship over (although I suppose it might be, to some people). It also wasn't something that one could or needed to apologize over.

If someone is repeatedly doing something that causes conflict, a confrontation will be necessary if the friendship really matters. But for one-off matters, it just doesn't seem necessary.

It may also have to do with differences in how friends are perceived and interacted with. For most guys, friends are people you do things with and enjoy spending time together with. There are plenty of girls who get into that as well, but many girls also confide secrets to friends, or reveal things that are more personal. So to a guy, having a bump in the road and letting it pass isn't a huge deal. To a girl, it's probably a bit more worrisome.

Originally Posted by Hera

Gosh, in MY case, I AM a girl, but I let the past argument pass by. I tried to behave as if nothing happened. He was at fault, too, but as I said, because I apologized first, he thought he's "innocent", which made him think he had the "right" to blow up again.
I'm wondering about how to NOT let him get away with being " innocent" without provoking his temper, again.

You didn't let the argument pass you by A lot of this really depends on the context and specifics, but if you were a guy, you probably wouldn't have apologized in the first place. You also probably wouldn't have gone back to this issue when the guy said that you could ask him any questions. You've done nothing wrong, just realize that you're following the female approach to it.

I could be wrong, but without more specifics on the situation, that's how it seems to me.

[Hera]

So my guy friend is behaving more like a girl

I'm stepping back. He's still angry. When is the "right time" to start talking to him about it?

Originally Posted by Ledgem

You also probably wouldn't have gone back to this issue when the guy said that you could ask him any questions.

No, I didn't recall past issues. The "Q&A" was totally about different things.

if you were a guy, you probably wouldn't have apologized in the first place

Did you mean to say, one who apologizes first is female?

[Slick_rick]

I'd say you have to make a decision about how important you feel the issue is to you, if you are or aren't going to be able to get by without getting an apology. There are some trifling issues that people usually let pass all the time, like roommates eating your food, but others which aren't anywhere as easy to let go of. That's a personal choice on how important you feel it is to you. Sometimes it is the best option to let go of friends, every wants to be liked you have to choose friends for our own sake cause sometimes it just isn't worth it.

I'm not going to judge who's wrong or right in the situation but no one likes admitting their wrong. Their is a good book I read recently called "Being Wrong" and it gives good insight into why being wrong isn't a bad thing or something to shy away from. I think being around someone who can't admit being wrong or even to speak about it is generally not a good thing. That person won't be very open minded to criticism and isn't going to want to change to become a better person so I personally try to avoid those type of people in general.

[warita]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

For sure, there are certain things that should be discussed. But in the case I was talking about, the reason why people got upset was over sports and perceived lack of loyalty.
If someone is repeatedly doing something that causes conflict, a confrontation will be necessary if the friendship really matters. But for one-off matters, it just doesn't seem necessary.

Yes, I meant more serious issues than just a little argument over some triviality.

Originally Posted by Ledgem

You've done nothing wrong, just realize that you're following the female approach to it.

Uhmmm, not sure how very female this behaviour is. It happened to me a few times in the past, that some of my male friends were pressing a past issue, because they wanted me to say that I forgive them, despite the fact that I said it is history now and I no longer wish to discuss it.

The same way it happened to me several times, that I appologized for something that I didnt need to appologize for, but I did it anyways as a first step to reconciliation and the other person thought that my appology means that I was wrong.
This is not gender specific, women and men do it equally from my experience. And frankly I am not sure how to deal with such a situation either. Social protocol dictates, that you should appologize for the part that you did wrong, if you want to reconcile..... but sometimes instead of making things better, it makes them worse. I think it really depends on who you appologize to and for what and how you deliver it.

Hera-chan. I think what you really wanted to ask is if you have the right to be angry at him, considering what he said and how he behaved. What you probably want to know is: "Was it OK for me to react this way.... did I need to appologize ..... and should I expect an appology from him for what he did? Is it OK for me to be upset in this situation?"

But the problem is, we cant tell you that, because we dont know anything about the situation. And how you should react in this situation depends on how much it upsets you. Wa this argument something that seriously damaged the relationship you had with him, is it something that keps reoccurring? You know the answers to that yourself the best and you have to decide how to react to it.

[2H-Dragon]

Hera, it seems kinda off that you where trying to e-mail him? Why not call him or contact him directly?

If he was lying about something that isn't really an issue. We all lie sometimes. If humans get caught in a lie they will say anything to make that lie seem true. Of course to proper course of action is too just own up to it. However a large part of the population lack the maturity to do that. Imo it isn't anything to lose a good friend over. Though I'm not sure what the lie was about. If the lie affects you personal then it might be a bigger issue.

What you shouldn't take is insults though. I'm assuming he's not one of your better friends seeing you wanted to e-mail him. Think well if he's worth the trouble.

If he's worth it. Just apologize by saying sorry that you doubted him, just tell him the story sounded fishy and leave it at that. Also tell him that you didn't appreciate the insults. Do this over the phone or in person. Fixing arguments over e-mail, just seems really impersonal and looks like you don't really care.

edit: Used Hera "-san" for some reason. >_> No wait I blame warita for that.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Sigh... I truly believe that friendship is the most sacred of all relationships but I have such a high ideal of it that I have trouble making friends. I have only had one friend in nearly 21 years of living that came close to what I would consider a true friend. And I have been separated from him for years now with little contact so I don't even know how we'd hit up back together if we ever do. We never really did anything productive together and it kind of feels like a drudgery to go back into the teen days of whining about the world incessantly to each other while relishing the hypocritical lifestyle we had together.

I had a couple more friends that came close but fell out due to lack of effort on both sides and other issues. And a lot more who are friends but not really.

And a very very large number of friends that I made over the net that I talk to all the time. Perhaps too much. But I am not sure if I can really call it friendship. After all, if I go away for an year or two, we'll be back to being just acquaintances.

The only real wish I have in my life is to live with a group of very close friends and do all sorts of awesome stuff together. But alas, by now, I doubt it will ever to be.

I suppose the biggest problem lies on my part on that I expect too much of my friends. Most people just don't see friendship the way I do. For me, it's friends first everything else second. And that is apparently antagonistic to the way the world runs.

I do dearly miss some people I "befriended" over the time though. And I wish I had the wealth to go around and meet up with the online friends I have made. Oh well.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Hera-san, it seems kinda off that you where trying to e-mail him? Why not call him or contact him directly?

If he was lying about something that isn't really an issue. We all lie sometimes. If humans get caught in a lie they will say anything to make that lie seem true. Of course to proper course of action is too just own up to it. However a large part of the population lack the maturity to do that. Imo it isn't anything to lose a good friend over. Though I'm not sure what the lie was about. If the lie affects you personal then it might be a bigger issue.

What you shouldn't take is insults though. I'm assuming he's not one of your better friends seeing you wanted to e-mail him. Think well if he's worth the trouble.

If he's worth it. Just apologize by saying sorry that you doubted him, just tell him the story sounded fishy and leave it at that. Also tell him that you didn't appreciate the insults. Do this over the phone or in person. Fixing arguments over e-mail, just seems really impersonal and looks like you don't really care.

I disagree, there are certain lies and patterns of lying to lose friends over. Trust is important to any relationship and even the smallest can eat away at it.

That's said, sometimes some of the things you are lied to about aren't any of your business in the first place. Friendship has bounds and friends don't have to explain to each other where they are all the time among other things in their life. For example, if I don't feel like letting a friend know where I'm going or doing at times I might lie or give a noncommittal answer. That's fine in my opinion, every has a right to their privacy. That's different than lying about something that impact the friendships like ditching the friend and then lying about the reasons or lying about things that involve their friend.

Now if Hera is trying to get beyond that line of demarcation between a friend and something more then that might be the cause of the friction but I don't really know the situation so I just speaking in possibilities.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I disagree, there are certain lies and patterns of lying to lose friends over. Trust is important to any relationship and even the smallest can eat away at it.

That's said, sometimes some of the things you are lied to about aren't any of your business in the first place. Friendship has bounds and friends don't have to explain to each other where they are all the time among other things in their life. For example, if I don't feel like letting a friend know where I'm going or doing at times I might lie or give a noncommittal answer. That's fine in my opinion, every has a right to their privacy. That's different than lying about something that impact the friendships like ditching the friend and then lying about the reasons or lying about things that involve their friend.

Now if Hera is trying to get beyond that line of demarcation between a friend and something more then that might be the cause of the friction but I don't really know the situation so I just speaking in possibilities.

Sure it depends on the lie, maybe I wasn't clear enough.

That said you can have friends with who you have a casual relationship with. Just fun to go out with or to play games with or w/e. I really don't feel it's necessary to have a high standard on them. I only have higher standard with the better friends who I also share my personal problems with.

I was just trying to point that lying isn't always a grave sin depending on the type of lie and on type of relationship.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

Sigh... I truly believe that friendship is the most sacred of all relationships

Nope
It's worth much, but nothing sacred after you realise that friends (/people, you included) build up their own lives to the point where friends are considered 'leasure time'

but I have such a high ideal of it that I have trouble making friends. I have only had one friend in nearly 21 years of living that came close to what I would consider a true friend

Should be enough

And I have been separated from him for years now with little contact so I don't even know how we'd hit up back together if we ever do. We never really did anything productive together and it kind of feels like a drudgery to go back into the teen days of whining about the world incessantly to each other while relishing the hypocritical lifestyle we had together.

Well, there isn't much left after your 'wild days' are gone
Job, family - don't leave much room for unproductive adventure

And there's also no reason to think that being an being irresponsible slacking 'hangaround' is bad

[Paranoid Android]

Anything else I can say to a friend who fails his university midterms after working so hard for it, apart from trying to sympathize with him?

I feel so bad for him. He's a really academic person and consistently gets above average grades and then suddenly gets totally destroyed in two exams that he thought he did well on.

[monsta666]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

Anything else I can say to a friend who fails his university midterms after working so hard for it, apart from trying to sympathize with him?

I feel so bad for him. He's a really academic person and consistently gets above average grades and then suddenly gets totally destroyed in two exams that he thought he did well on.

Sorry to hear that. It can be a tricky area as everyone handles setbacks differently. Some people don't even like people to be overly sympathetic to them and can shun any sympathy in their direction. I think the best things to say (if you have not already done so) is to say that everyone fails in their exams every now and then and it is not the end of the world if you fail. The important thing is you try your best and just let the cards fall were they may. Don't live a life of regret by failing on a exam you thought you could have tried harder. If you fail despite giving it your best shot then you cannot blame yourself, that is just life. With that said I am sure with your friends intelligence and his previous achievements which is a good indicator (and is something that should be stressed) he will do fine in future exams. If you can give real life examples of people he considers intelligent that did fail but picked themselves up that would be a added bonus.

Our family does come from a academic background and it has been mentioned to me during hard times that certain family members not only failed an exam but had to redo the entire year yet they went on to achieve great things. It is good proof that a bad event need not be the end of the world and quite often we learn more from our failures than our successes.

[Cream]

what is friendship to you?

i'm really curious to see what your opinions of what it actually is because i feel like my view on it might just be a really odd 'take' .

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Cream

what is friendship to you?

i'm really curious to see what your opinions of what it actually is because i feel like my view on it might just be a really odd 'take' .

To me it's "those guys I hung out with as a kid and still do" and "kindred spirits". Nothing more complicated than that. I would say I also have friendships with people on animesuki, or at least I feel like I would have if we could meet. I've talked to some of them for a long time. If someone's your friend, you know it. Assigning criteria is a bit difficult for me because many of my relationships are so different, but I'm aware that many people have certain standards for who they consider a friend.

It's strange, I spent an entire weekend last week vegging out on the sofa with one of my best friends, and don't regret a second of it, even though it was a massive waste of time. I cherish the memory and the small momemnts between us.

[Paranoid Android]

I don't get it.

To me it's a gradient of varying definitions, from
"we have similarities and neither of us hate each other so far" <- you don't even need to be a human being to qualify for this
to
"dude you gotta get out of there, it's not safe. You can temporarily stay at my place, I'll buy your flight for you, but you can't stay there anymore"

I once was in a very bad spot and my friend drove to find me and let me live on his sofa for three weeks until I found a place to rent. That's probably best thing someone's done for me.

I mean there's a lot of people that qualify as friends but i would only conditionally say whether we're friends or not. I tend to acknowledge friendship even if there isn't so people don't feel awkward.

[warita]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

I tend to acknowledge friendship even if there isn't so people don't feel awkward.

Originally I didnt mean to write anything on this but this one sentence tickled me.

Yes, I find it amusing, how quicly people label something friendship. To me a friendship is something that needs time and care to develop. Just because you met somebody and talked to him pleasantly for a while and you shares an interest with him... well that doesnt make him a friend. Yet it seems that most people are fine labeling such a superficial aquintance a friendship.

I think that trust is a very important aspect that seperates aquintances from good friends. But trust wont come out of nowhere. It needs time to develop and for you to know you can trust a friend, you need to be in a situation where the friend can prove himself to you. But it seems that most people assume they can blindly trust their "friend" until he proves them otherwise.

Well, a lot of disappointment can come out of this and many superficial friendships are born that way too. For most people friendship means spending time with people and thats that. And if you dare to call them a good aquintance instead of bossom buddy they get insulted. Because hey, you are supposed to trust them, love them and consider them good friends, even though they didnt do anything to earn this position yet.

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

In the 24 years I have existed, I have found that guys seem so much more easygoing and fun. Don't get me wrong, I am a girl too but somehow, most of the girls that I know are more emotional, and when tantrums are shown.......jeng jeng jeng!! When I have a disagreement with guys, they will just shrug it off the next day, but if girls, oh crap, it scares the shit out of me. All that passionate anger! Haha!

[warita]

Originally Posted by MUAHAHAHAHAHA

In the 24 years I have existed, I have found that guys seem so much more easygoing and fun. Don't get me wrong, I am a girl too but somehow, most of the girls that I know are more emotional, and when tantrums are shown.......jeng jeng jeng!! When I have a disagreement with guys, they will just shrug it off the next day, but if girls, oh crap, it scares the shit out of me. All that passionate anger! Haha!

I get along with guys a lot better too. I always believed that the reason for this is that I am not interested in girly things like fashion, makeup, shoes or dscussing things about other people that is none of my business.

But what you say might also play a role. I am all in for uncomplicated friendships with as little drama as possible.

However guys wont continuously shrug off arguments, especially if the girl makes a scene. They might go over it once or twice, but if a female friend keeps creating drama, they will drop her. And I dont blame them either.

[Paranoid Android]

Originally Posted by warita

Originally I didnt mean to write anything on this but this one sentence tickled me.

Yes, I find it amusing, how quicly people label something friendship. To me a friendship is something that needs time and care to develop. Just because you met somebody and talked to him pleasantly for a while and you shares an interest with him... well that doesnt make him a friend. Yet it seems that most people are fine labeling such a superficial aquintance a friendship.

I think that trust is a very important aspect that seperates aquintances from good friends. But trust wont come out of nowhere. It needs time to develop and for you to know you can trust a friend, you need to be in a situation where the friend can prove himself to you. But it seems that most people assume they can blindly trust their "friend" until he proves them otherwise.

Well, a lot of disappointment can come out of this and many superficial friendships are born that way too. For most people friendship means spending time with people and thats that. And if you dare to call them a good aquintance instead of bossom buddy they get insulted. Because hey, you are supposed to trust them, love them and consider them good friends, even though they didnt do anything to earn this position yet.

Yeah I'm skeptical about those white lies. I mean I personally don't consider the far majority of my contacts as friends. They're not people who I think about if I were planning a new years party or large group activity with. But I will always tell them (only them, not others) that they're my friends. It's superficial but some people take offense if you don't consider them your friends. I mean there were people that turn totally negative and hate me for no reason just because I suggest that I don't consider them friends.

I think for today's social standards, those do qualify as some shallow category of friends.

-------
Something I haven't mentioned, about online 'friendship', I don't consider online-exclusive relationships as actual friendship unless there's voice-chat and co-op video games involved. Unlike IRL, I care far less whether someone gets offended or not when I tell them I'm not their friend.

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by MUAHAHAHAHAHA

In the 24 years I have existed, I have found that guys seem so much more easygoing and fun. Don't get me wrong, I am a girl too but somehow, most of the girls that I know are more emotional, and when tantrums are shown.......jeng jeng jeng!! When I have a disagreement with guys, they will just shrug it off the next day, but if girls, oh crap, it scares the shit out of me. All that passionate anger! Haha!

I came here to say you have one of the best usernames I've ever seen.

It speaks to my soul, man--deep stuff.

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

I came here to say you have one of the best usernames I've ever seen.

It speaks to my soul, man--deep stuff.

Hey, thanks for that, shinyuu!!