PS3 x Revolution x Xbox-360

[Taylor--]

Personally, I could care less about numbers when it comes to consoles. Hell, usually I don't understand anything that techy. I buy the consoles that give me the game's I want to play. Like for example, I got an Xbox 360. But didn't have an Xbox. Why? Because Rare is making games for them now, and I come from Nintendo(For those that don't know... Rare started out with Nintendo) . I grew up with Nintendo, and still play and love the games. That's not the only reason I bought the 360 though.. I also come from playing a lot of PC gaming. I'm a fan of Epic's games, like Unreal. Now they're making Gears of War... another Xbox 360 exclusive. I'll also buy the Revolution when it comes out, just like every Nintendo console/handheld before it.

Now for Sony, I have a PS2 because I love RPG's. I know the RPG's will end up on PS3 mostly again this time around, so I'll probably wait on it until there's a pretty good library of RPG's to play.

[TTHX]

Jesus christ...all these numbers and tech crap.

I could honestly give a shit what console had more power. For me, it's all about the games and gameplay.

[Blaat]

So anyone seen the latest PS2 controller?

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9...7668544033.jpg

Its made by a third party for PS2

[Taylor--]

Originally Posted by Blaat

So anyone seen the latest PS2 controller?

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9...7668544033.jpg

Its made by a third party for PS2

That looks... really retarded

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Blaat

So anyone seen the latest PS2 controller?

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9...7668544033.jpg

Its made by a third party for PS2

Eeewww I think I would end up rubbing the skin off my knuckles without doing the 5 finger shuffle...

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Especially after you have modded out those annoying area-codes and "anti-piracy" measures.

"Especially after you have modded out those annoying..."

You sound like you expect these things to be pirateable. You sound like, everything in this world has to be free. I wonder how you would react if someone stole all your lifes work and mutilates it....but then again, I could care less how you would react considering your words...



And I too enjoying gaming for the games, not what is used to play the games. That's also the reason why I still enjoy the Dreamcast, because there are some games on there not on other consoles.

By the way I find it quite odd seeing that PS2 controller post in a thread about the nex gen consoles

[Taydn]

personally I think the Revolution will be worth picking up. It's 100% backwards compatible so you won't waste the money you've already spent and you can still play all the games you love and find some new ones.

[Key]

I'll definitely be getting the PS2 and most likely the Revolution. Xbox 360 I really wouldn't dish out top dollar for as it doesn't seem likely that it'll have games that interest me (I'm more of an RPG/fighter person than an FPS/adventure person... I've been dying to play Star Wars: KotOR though :/). Who knows, maybe that'll change. Might eventually get the 360 when the price goes down as I've been wanting to play DOA4.

Regardless, I won't be buying any of the consoles when they first come out. XD Let the prices go down and have each respective team iron out the wrinkles and fix the glitches first.

[xxxplizit]

Originally Posted by shikamarufoo

I think I'm gonna eventually buy all 3 of them.
XBOX360 may have it's flaws and M$ might be money hungry, but hopefully they'll be all fixed when Halo 3 comes out because that's basically the only thing that they use to get those damn things sold.

Halo was what brought XBox on their feet to the console market. Never in history has there been a company to step up to the console plate successfully. Apple Pippin? Failed. N-Gage? Failed. Not that I am saying that the game is the only money-making game out there to the public because there are other games that appeal to the market for consumers.

However, to rely on such antic cannot go on forever as there must be a number of games to go on the market competitively. In reality, the majority of people aren't gonna waste $450+ just to play 1 game ($400 system + $50+ game + extras for other add-ons). They buy a system for the library of games and what they can do to the system. I'd like to see someone disagree on that, EXCLUDING rich spoiled people as they'd buy anything.

And M$ isn't making any money off of the XBox line. They are still in major deficit.

Originally Posted by Cueil

Holy crap are you for real? Number where thrown around like crazy durring that time... so I guess you were out of the loop. Every hardcore gamer cares... the hardware is the wheels that drive their games. The more power the more potential and do not put the Dreamcast in with the 64 and PS1... it is part of the current gen systems

System specs isn't a big deal. It's just there for the hardcore gamers and game developers to take advantage of. Now to add examples:

1. PS2. It wasn't as powerful as the Gamecube (yes Cube is more powerful in terms of power) and the XBox in terms of processor speed and RAM, BUT it is currently is the #1 console on the market statistically.

2. Nintendo DS Vs. PSP. Currently, while PSP is more powerful, DS outsold PSP in the market currently.

As for the specs, in reality, how many games can pump 65 Million PPS (polygons per second) for the PS2 or 100+ PPS for the XBox (estimated maximum number)? Either very few or none at all. Why? Either developers have programming conflicts with the hardware itself or poor programmers who can't make it do what they want it to do nor take advantage of what the system can do.

And as specified before, hardcore gamers ONLY make up less than 20% of the market. Now, what does have to say about the majority of these people living in this earth?

In summary, the entire competition all relies on video game marketing strategies between the companies. Without smart and successful marketing strategies, there would be no point into developing consoles and videogames alongside with it because almost nobody won't buy it due to no news about them. If people were to make a system composed of infinite hertz processor + infinite RAM system with without people either not knowing nor appealing to it, would millions of people buy it?

[arias]

Originally Posted by xxxplizit

As for the specs, in reality, how many games can pump 65 Million PPS (polygons per second) for the PS2 or 100+ PPS for the XBox (estimated maximum number)? Either very few or none at all. Why? Either developers have programming conflicts with the hardware itself or poor programmers who can't make it do what they want it to do nor take advantage of what the system can do.

Abit too lazy to address everything after a full dinner, but you should note that the quoted 65 million polygons/sec is a stat *before* you turn on functions like lighting, shadowing, anti-aliasing etc. If I recall correctly, with all those functions turned on, the PS2 is somewhere closer to 15-20 million.

It is also worth noting that maximizing polygon count is not the best way to use resources.. you can make your graphics very simple with low polygon count (like Katamari) so programming code is easier, and high framerate is ensured. Or you can, like Squeenix, choose to lower polygon count to devote resources to other areas. They are doing this for FFXII, which will have a lower polygon count than FFX, to increase the amount of textures put on the game and such.

[xxxplizit]

Originally Posted by arias

Abit too lazy to address everything after a full dinner, but you should note that the quoted 65 million polygons/sec is a stat *before* you turn on functions like lighting, shadowing, anti-aliasing etc. If I recall correctly, with all those functions turned on, the PS2 is somewhere closer to 15-20 million.

It is also worth noting that maximizing polygon count is not the best way to use resources.. you can make your graphics very simple with low polygon count (like Katamari) so programming code is easier, and high framerate is ensured. Or you can, like Squeenix, choose to lower polygon count to devote resources to other areas. They are doing this for FFXII, which will have a lower polygon count than FFX, to increase the amount of textures put on the game and such.

My statement was not meant to be over-technical about graphics. Thanks for the facts, but I already know about anti-aliasing, shadowing, and other graphical features in each system as well. And yes, games like RE4, FF PS2 Series, Tekken series, and other games with high-quality graphics substitute other resourceful features instead of raw polygon usage, which usage uses a LOT more power than the other features. And I am also aware that graphics do not "make the game" as well...

...But my statement was to go against Cueil's statement about using specs as the absolute reason into buying a system. I can name a lot of crappy games that was just high-end non-game-related production work (graphics etc.) with no "game" in it, but I'd rather not.

[arias]

Originally Posted by xxxplizit

My statement was not meant to be over-technical about graphics. Thanks for the facts, but I already know about anti-aliasing, shadowing, and other graphical features in each system as well. And yes, games like RE4, FF PS2 Series, Tekken series, and other games with high-quality graphics substitute other resourceful features instead of raw polygon usage, which usage uses a LOT more power than the other features. And I am also aware that graphics do not "make the game" as well...

...But my statement was to go against Cueil's statement about using specs as the absolute reason into buying a system. I can name a lot of crappy games that was just high-end non-game-related production work (graphics etc.) with no "game" in it, but I'd rather not.

I wasn't actually responding specifically to your post but also adding on to facts which were not obvious in your post (for example, an average reader might think 65 million polygons was the PS2's capacity after all features were switched on). So don't get too defensive there... ; )

I'm not sure Cueli actually said specs are the absolute reason in buying a system, but I don't know since I never read Cueli's post in-depth anyway. Regardless, on the graphical issue, I am actually of the MODERATE camp --- graphics do matter, and they may not make the game, but they certainly are a part of it.

[xxxplizit]

Originally Posted by arias

I wasn't actually responding specifically to your post but also adding on to facts which were not obvious in your post (for example, an average reader might think 65 million polygons was the PS2's capacity after all features were switched on). So don't get too defensive there... ; )

I'm not sure Cueli actually said specs are the absolute reason in buying a system, but I don't know since I never read Cueli's post in-depth anyway. Regardless, on the graphical issue, I am actually of the MODERATE camp --- graphics do matter, and they may not make the game, but they certainly are a part of it.

No worries, I wasn't defensive.

As for graphics, yes, they are a "part" of it, just like sound, control, gameplay, story (if applicable), etc....but they aren't the 100% absolute definition of the "game".

[Ending]

You sound like you expect these things to be pirateable. You sound like, everything in this world has to be free. I wonder how you would react if someone stole all your lifes work and mutilates it....but then again, I could care less how you would react considering your words...

PS3 or XBox360; it's just a matter of time until they are stripped bare. Remember though, that "anti-piracy" is just a cover-word for limiting what you can do with your legally bought software. Don't like web-activation? Too bad. Have to fill a customer-survey before using the product? Stow it. DVD got scratched and can't do a backup? Buy a new one, dolt!

Therefore it is wrong to say that "modding/cracking/hacking is just about stealing someone's work." It's about returning the consumers their options the companies have stolen from them. Acting all "anti-pirate" isn't noble, you know; it's just about siding with alliances like RIAA and MPAA.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Wirhe

PS3 or XBox360; it's just a matter of time until they are stripped bare. Remember though, that "anti-piracy" is just a cover-word for limiting what you can do with your legally bought software.

You hear of those guys that mutilated a XBOX 360 at launch? I guess they're the first to "strip" it

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Don't like web-activation? Too bad.

What game does that?

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Have to fill a customer-survey before using the product? Stow it.

What game again?

Originally Posted by Wirhe

DVD got scratched and can't do a backup? Buy a new one, dolt!

Ever hear of taking care of things? Ever hear of waranties? Ever try contacting the company in question?

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Therefore it is wrong to say that "modding/cracking/hacking is just about stealing someone's work."

Did I say that, or your saying that is wrong?

Originally Posted by Wirhe

It's about returning the consumers their options the companies have stolen from them.

Options? Far as I can tell I buy a game to play it, not make copies or release it on the interweb.

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Acting all "anti-pirate" isn't noble, you know; it's just about siding with alliances like RIAA and MPAA.

Was I anti pirate? Did I say I was? Was I even acting?

You have to remember the topic at hand. And you need to re-read what I said.

And I don't side with the Audio industry or the Motion picture double A. I side with no one in the regards to pirating, because history shows neither of the sides are handling it well.

Makes me wonder who learns from all this....

[Ending]

@ Mangatron

Honestly, do you actually expect me to dig out all the sources when you simply question every word I say? But here is one example: Half Life 2 uses Steam validation on PC and if there are to be similar games on XBox360, it is also very likely they follow that already proven and stamped patch set by Valve and Microsoft (WinXP uses similar validation). So let's ask it this way: if the actions of a industry stamp on the consumer-rights in the name of "anti-piracy", do they really have right to do so? Remember that through the history it has been the consumers who have been the weaker side and thus the law exists to protect us -not the often greedy benefits of different companies that think only our money.

And, for gods sake; combine those quotes (and your answers) to a single package. Asking "What?" can't take over ten lines.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Wirhe

@ Mangatron

Honestly, do you actually expect me to dig out all the sources when you simply question every word I say? But here is one example: Half Life 2 uses Steam validation on PC and if there are to be similar games on XBox360, it is also very likely they follow that already proven and stamped patch set by Valve and Microsoft (WinXP uses similar validation). So let's ask it this way: if the actions of a industry stamp on the consumer-rights in the name of "anti-piracy", do they really have right to do so? Remember that through the history it has been the consumers who have been the weaker side and thus the law exists to protect us -not the often greedy benefits of different companies that think only our money.

And, for gods sake; combine those quotes (and your answers) to a single package. Asking "What?" can't take over ten lines.

I know about Valve and how they screwed sveral thousand people who attemtped to activate that game, and of course, I'm using Win XP and I've activated twice, one online and one over the phone (after my hard drive re formatted). But games in general, especially console games, the ones out already don't need any sort of proof of ownership, and the current consoles that don't have ethernet built in really have no connection to the internet whatsoever to activate. I don't think having phone support for that is a good idea either lol....and of course, console gaming is very much different than PC gaming, so it's hard to tell with this activation thing....and, if a game requires activation online, heck, they can lose customers simply because not everyone has an online connection

I really think Valve knew ahead of time that their game was going to be ripped faster than a 16x DVD writer, so they purposely set up a whole lot of people. And that, of course, was really wrong. If they knew ahead of time, they could've used other means instead of waiting to screw thousands of players. And there are very few companies that want our money only, I mean, few that make games for money (you can tell by how many crappy games that get released).

Reason why I don't side with either side of this piracy issue? I don't side with the piraters, and I don't side with the anit piraters, because if I didn't pirate to begin with, why should I bother with the anti piraters?

And in your previous post, you used 8 different sentences in two paragraphs, I used what was the best at that moment (I would've bullet numbered, but that's more confusing )

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by mangatron

But games in general, especially console games, the ones out already don't need any sort of proof of ownership, and the current consoles that don't have ethernet built in really have no connection to the internet whatsoever to activate.

I think you completely missed Wirhe's point. Or, if you were trying to make an argument, I'm sorry to say that this wasn't very strong. You're right that current technology doesn't require what he mentioned; his point, as I understand it, is that it's heading in that direction, and it shouldn't. It disables the customer from doing things with what they've bought. You seem to argue that customers would only pirate it, and hence these protections are good. Wirhe's point is that not everyone who will be screwed by the protection is a pirate, or trying to use what they've bought for piracy purposes.

....and of course, console gaming is very much different than PC gaming, so it's hard to tell with this activation thing....and, if a game requires activation online, heck, they can lose customers simply because not everyone has an online connection

Console gaming is fast becoming very similar to PC gaming. The difference is that instead of having a mouse and keyboard as standard interface equipment, you have a gaming controller. Keyboards are available; I don't believe consoles support mice yet. As for your argument about internet connections, every day more and more people are signing up. It's an upward trend; saying "there is X percentage of gamers without internet" means less than saying "overall more people are gaining access to the internet than losing it, and the population is becoming internet-enabled at a rate of X per Y." You're right about today's status, but there is indeed an upward trend, and increasingly all electronics are coming to utilize the internet. You can't just completely blow that off.

I don't pirate games (I might if I could, at the very least to try some out), but I don't want a load of restrictions on something that I buy.

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I think you completely missed Wirhe's point. Or, if you were trying to make an argument, I'm sorry to say that this wasn't very strong. You're right that current technology doesn't require what he mentioned; his point, as I understand it, is that it's heading in that direction, and it shouldn't. It disables the customer from doing things with what they've bought. You seem to argue that customers would only pirate it, and hence these protections are good. Wirhe's point is that not everyone who will be screwed by the protection is a pirate, or trying to use what they've bought for piracy purposes.

no, I'm not making an arguement. I clearly understood Whire's point, thats why I said current, not forever. That's also why I mentioned that over the phone issue. And no, I don't argue that copyright protection is soley against piraters, I, believe it's somewhat about trust, and we all know how trust is shared in this world. And I do understand that not everyone is a pirate, but I do not understand what other use is there for copying something other than for what it was meant to be used. There are online games that rely on CD keys, and only one account can have that CD key. What purpose is a copy of that game if you can't play online because there's only one CD key? Or if you were to backup a disc in case it gets screwed over by scratches. Why would it get scratched in the first place? 2 answers only, ignorance or defection. Think about where those 2 go...

In the end though, how many people actually read the whole EU license agreements or GNU license agreements .....

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Console gaming is fast becoming very similar to PC gaming. The difference is that instead of having a mouse and keyboard as standard interface equipment, you have a gaming controller. Keyboards are available; I don't believe consoles support mice yet. As for your argument about internet connections, every day more and more people are signing up. It's an upward trend; saying "there is X percentage of gamers without internet" means less than saying "overall more people are gaining access to the internet than losing it, and the population is becoming internet-enabled at a rate of X per Y." You're right about today's status, but there is indeed an upward trend, and increasingly all electronics are coming to utilize the internet. You can't just completely blow that off.

I really don't see how console gaming can become similar, maybe close to but the two are very wide apart. A console's job is to purely play the game at gaming's most productive level, PC gaming has many more features and in-game computing abilities that make it known why it is called PC gaming. Arcadish and Set, what I like to call it...

I had a stint with Novalogic 2 years ago, And the company then was really good. I enjoyed every bit of it, and I even participated in E3 2004. With that the game we helped make, JO:TR, was a online game and it relies on CD keys to be playable. And, it surprised me, that you'd think people would buy one copy only to have fun, but no there were others who would actually buy 2 copies just to screw the company over and stat pad the stats to crap In the end, Nova pretty much dumped the rest of us testers, and it was long after that that they, Novalogic was caught using hacked software. It made me so much disgusted how I, worked with professionals, only to turn my back and after they unloaded PR, down they went...

Why people were able to buy mor than 2 copies, i'll never know ....

There may be many people signing up for internet access, but public libraries with common users kinda make me think otherwise and sure, maybe in Japan you can really afford it seeing as how 10mbit will cost you 30 green ones, but really, you do see alot of people who still use dial-up, right? (I remember my dial up days) Or you do see people who just plain can't get access because of location? (I've known a few) after all, this forum is still maintaining a dial-up user mentality, so....we could say in a year or two "not everyone has broadband"

But think about an upside, ja. Copyright protection technology sorta sucks now, right? If we're worried about the future, just think that as technology grows, Copyright technology should grow as well, and I'm hoping companies learn from whats jacking themselves and in the future, make things much more enjoyable than they are now.

[polar720]

I`ll probably get a PS3, since I got a PS and PS2. It`ll be like a big family then.