[GSD] Coordinator Questions [Title to be revised]

[kitezero]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I understand each word you use. But I don't understand a single sentence.

sorry about that i guess i was mixing my thoughts too much, with the advantage in numbers that the Earth had they had to do something to put the war back in there favor that's where the mobile suits came in. but it still wasen't a big advantage since the PLANTS never had any nuclear missles to bring the thought of the use of nuclear weapons to a stalemate. i'll assume you don't know the rules in hockey so i'll just scap that thought.

I'm talking about how it's wrong for Naturals to hate Coordinators, especially to the point of murder, let alone genocide.

when you said this it was like your saying that "coordination" leaded to genocide but during World War II it was the same thing. during the...

Spoiler:

holocaust where 1/3 of the Jewish population were killed

sorry i didn't want to bring any bad memories so i put what i was about to say in spoilers.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kitezero

sorry about that i guess i was mixing my thoughts too much, with the advantage in numbers that the Earth had they had to do something to put the war back in there favor that's where the mobile suits came in. but it still wasen't a big advantage since the PLANTS never had any nuclear missles to bring the thought of the use of nuclear weapons to a stalemate. i'll assume you don't know the rules in hockey so i'll just scap that thought.

They had Neutron Jammers. Presumably, they're at the top of nuclear physics and could have used nuclear missiles if they'd wanted to.

But I don't see how it contradicts my point: one on one, five on five, or fifteen on fifteen, coordinator vs natural will result in a coordinator victory.

when you said this it was like your saying that "coordination" leaded to genocide but during World War II it was the same thing. during the...

Spoiler:

holocaust where 1/3 of the Jewish population were killed

sorry i didn't want to bring any bad memories so i put what i was about to say in spoilers.

I said that there's an extra factor that leads to anti-coordinator sentiment, compared to, if you insist, anti-jew racism. I'm not saying that racism is right.

[kitezero]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They had Neutron Jammers. Presumably, they're at the top of nuclear physics and could have used nuclear missiles if they'd wanted to.
But I don't see how it contradicts my point: one on one, five on five, or fifteen on fifteen, coordinator vs natural will result in a coordinator victory.

in "Gundam Seed" if Kira and Asuran didn't destroy the nuclear missles that was heading towards PLANT it would have been the EA's victory right? but in both wars it was the EA who started the war anyway and the Neutron Jammes were only created after the nuclear missle attack on one of the PLANTS. also what about Requiem? you can't coordinators had all the technology and even if coordinators made nuclear missles EA has enough to cover the Earth 10 times over

I said that there's an extra factor that leads to anti-coordinator sentiment, compared to, if you insist, anti-jew racism. I'm not saying that racism is right.

who saying it is? i thought the whole point was not to repeat what happened then and that's the only example i could think of besides i'm just saying you can't dismiss the fact it happened in real life that's the WHOLE reason i used the spoiler. besides that's how Djibrel saw it he wanted to kill ALL the coordinators. i have nothing against any race or religion as long as they don't force me to believe what they believe.

[Anh_Minh]

OK, I don't get what's your point at all.

[kitezero]

your treating as coordinators are another species that they are superior to all the naturals but i would like to think the way Kira thinks "i'm just a single human being, i am no different from anyone else".

[Anh_Minh]

They're not another species, but there's no getting around the fact that they have huge physiological advantages over Naturals. They're obviously physically superior, and I think have better memory and longer attention spans. Heck, they're special enough Mwu and Andy were able to tell Kira was a coordinator just from the way he operated Strike or the way he moved in that firefight. No natural could have done it.

You're making too much of Kira's statement. All he said was that coordinators weren't magic - if they want to know something, they have to learn it. He never said there's absolutely no difference in their abilities. (Watch his fight with Sai to see how "alike" they are...)

[kitezero]

how can you compare Kira with other coordinators? if you remember Kira was created to be the "ULTIMATE" coordinator so that's why to some people coordinators have a huge advantage. when Mwu and Andy could tell he was a coordinator was for one thing they haven't created an OS that would give the Gundams normal movement and the original pilots could barely make them walk as you could see Sai trying to pilot the Strike he fell. for Kira to say what he said he doesn't see himself as anything special i like that trait about him some people see themselves as something special but he doesn't no matter how much he is praised.

[Anh_Minh]

Kira's one of the best pilots of the CE, but he isn't that remarkable as far as coordinators are concerned. He may be one of the best, certainly. But, for example, Athrun has comparable talent as a pilot, and used to have better grades when they were kids.

Heck, speaking of OSes - why was it that Naturals couldn't pilot MSes at first, while coordinators could? Because they can't process information as fast, and their reflexes are too slow. It's not a one off thing. The best test pilots the EA could find were clumsy, but ZAFT had plenty of pilots. That's the kind of advantage the Coordinators have.

[kitezero]

i won't deny Athrun was talented but when he first got Aegis he couldn't program the OS he had to go back to the ship to get it done. with mobile suits creating weapons and OSes can't be done over night and we don't really know who created the Gundams it could have been done by coordinators or natural or even both. with the phase shift would have given the EA the advantage because beam weapons wasen't standard use on the ZAFT mobile suits yet they used primilary bullets and normal swords. also when you saw the Gundams being stollen they could only make them walk so how do we know that the OSes were that different if neither the EA or ORB had an OS to start off with? Kira designed the OS so he could use it and he is well above both natural and normal coordinators no one ever piloted the Freedom or Strike Freedom. with the OS he created for naturals he based everything on the average person. besides we don't know if natural could pilot it or not since they locked the systems on the Strike it's not like Mwu or Sai would have been able to pilot a mobile suit when they don't know how.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I won't deny Athrun was talented but when he first got Aegis he couldn't program the OS he had to go back to the ship to get it done.

Actually, if you read the side-stories concerning Kira and Athrun's school days together, you would realise that Kira is always the better programmer of the two, while Athrun was the better Engineer.

It was during one of the school projects they did together, when Kira suggests that they should build a working, flying, mechanical bird as a project. Athrun told Kira he was CRAZY, and that it can't be done.

But Athrun went home and tried building one on his own anyway. And he finished "Tori" just the night before he left for PLANT. And that's why he gave Tori to Kira as a sign of their friendship.

So obviously Kira was a better programmer; that's his chosen field. It's almost certain Kira won't have been able to build Tori or the Haros. That's what Athrun was good at.

[Nightengale]

And despite Kira's status as the UC, a lot of people are forgetting that he was raised by 'Natural' parents.

And judging from how they treated him in the Suit Drama, I think it's pretty much safe to assume that he did not go to all those 'Coordinator Talent Building' classes. After all, their parents wanted him to be raised as a Natural, not as a Coordinator.

He may have be dripping talent in the buckets, but that's pointless unless he drinks them. And he clearly only had 2 cups. Programming and MS piloting. And the latter was shoved down his throat.

Well, maybe he had "Oral Persuasion" in small doses as well. XD

[kitezero]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Actually, if you read the side-stories concerning Kira and Athrun's school days together, you would realise that Kira is always the better programmer of the two, while Athrun was the better Engineer...

where did you read these side-stories? what you say is true but he must have some amount of programming talent because he was able to make Haro and Tori move.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

And despite Kira's status as the UC, a lot of people are forgetting that he was raised by 'Natural' parents.

And judging from how they treated him in the Suit Drama, I think it's pretty much safe to assume that he did not go to all those 'Coordinator Talent Building' classes. After all, their parents wanted him to be raised as a Natural, not as a Coordinator.

He may have be dripping talent in the buckets, but that's pointless unless he drinks them. And he clearly only had 2 cups. Programming and MS piloting. And the latter was shoved down his throat.

Well, maybe he had "Oral Persuasion" in small doses as well. XD

these 'Coordinator Talent Building' classes it's not like he knew what he was good at right from birth besides how do you know what Kira's parents were thinking? with programming and mobile suit piloting from what i could tell from the beginning of "Gundam Seed" he was working on something that was related to both. it could have been that mobile suits was just a larger version of what they were working on

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by kitezero

where did you read these side-stories? what you say is true but he must have some amount of programming talent because he was able to make Haro and Tori move.

Drama Suit Mangas. You should still be able to find them at some places, me thinks.

Originally Posted by kitezero

these 'Coordinator Talent Building' classes it's not like he knew what he was good at right from birth besides how do you know what Kira's parents were thinking? with programming and mobile suit piloting from what i could tell from the beginning of "Gundam Seed" he was working on something that was related to both. it could have been that mobile suits was just a larger version of what they were working on

No parent knows what their child are talented of right from birth. That's why there exist special tuition and classes in real life for young children to discover and realise their talent and potential.

How do I know? There's no direct proof, but from what the side-stories and the anime implied, Kira was raised in a situation where he lived like a Natural, not a Coordinator. It's safe to assume that he didn't go through all those extra coordination classes.

Programming and piloting, while related are 2 different worlds. Especially when piloting involves the great risk of dying.

[kitezero]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

How do I know? There's no direct proof, but from what the side-stories and the anime implied, Kira was raised in a situation where he lived like a Natural, not a Coordinator. It's safe to assume that he didn't go through all those extra coordination classes.

if his parents wanted him to live as a natural they would have never told him he was coordinator. besides i don't think his parents descriminated on naturals or coordinators but i could be wrong since all his friends were naturals.

Programming and piloting, while related are 2 different worlds. Especially when piloting involves the great risk of dying.

that's not what i meant when you said "later was shoved down his throat" if he was already learning it in school he already had a grasp on the concepts. i'm talking about the relationship between what he learned in school that lead him to be able to program the OS and pilot the mobile suit. i am not talking about the situations where he is fighting in a actual battles.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

How do I know? There's no direct proof, but from what the side-stories and the anime implied, Kira was raised in a situation where he lived like a Natural, not a Coordinator. It's safe to assume that he didn't go through all those extra coordination classes.

He went at the same school (and classes) as Athrun, so I think you're wrong.

But he wasn't anybody's pet project to be turned into a super soldier or even a simple showcase such as George Glenn, that's true.

I think his parents just tried to achieve some balance between happiness and growth, the same as practically every parent, Natural or Coordinator.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He went at the same school (and classes) as Athrun, so I think you're wrong.

But he wasn't anybody's pet project to be turned into a super soldier or even a simple showcase such as George Glenn, that's true.

They were teenagers then. They didn't meet when they were 5. And talent building starts at a very young age, even in real life. I don't think Coordinators are any different.

Anyway, it's clear that Kira didn't recieve the post-birth Coordination that Ulen wanted to make him the true Ultimate. Otherwise, he might be living hell like Canard.