World of Tanks

[Pen3]

Finally got my Ace for KV-2

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[12ice]

@Leo:

I think that, once we actually figure out who in MUP actually wants to partake in CW, we will be able to organize much better along that line and drum up some excitement.

In addition, I can't stress enough that we need new people. The WoT community has driven individuals who are still new, but looking to get into CW in the future. MUP has a lot of attractive features to attract exactly these sort of people: casual atmosphere (outside of training), a common interest in anime, access to high-skilled players for platooning/tutoring, and VOIP.

I think we ought to at least give the division a chance before pronouncing MUP as unviable for CW as a whole.

[Tak]

Spoiler for Leo:

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

While these are all perfectly valid and sound points that in principle I agree with, the fact of the matter is that we can't force anyone to do anything. The ultimate cause of this is that none of us truly have the resources or commitment to make half of that stuff happen. This is not an issue of our membership, because the way that clans get good is by kicking out inactive or uncooperative players and training the good and enthusiastic ones to work as a team and be present. This is an issue that is directly related to the clan's leadership. The leadership of MUP is Tak, and he has made it clear that MUP is a casual affair.

For this reason, I do not believe that CW will ever be a possibility for us. Look around. Consider who we are here. If even the people who are active on the forums and have been willing to platoon by and large do not want to have anything to do with CW; if even a comparatively simple tank company at the lowly, inexpensive tier 6 held every weekend at the same time, for a mere hour to an hour and a half, can't get enough people on board, how will we field any sort of CW team?

The reason why I have been pushing for TCs all along is because they offer us the chance to fight real, organized enemies and learn how to defeat them as an organized team. I was under the impression that at least ten or so of us would be able to weather through a relatively short session once a week to develop teamwork, both as men and as officers. My concern about training was that the feeling of "we gotta beat the red team" won't be there, and that we would just end up wasting time messing around without any sort of gain.

Now, I am concerned that even with TCs, we are "messing around without any sort of gain" as well. Are people having fun? I'd like to think so, but with people calling them "stale", with people being demoralized by loss streaks and low or disjointed attendance, with the attitude that some of us approach the problem of the supposedly all-powerful KV-1S, I'm worried. I'm worried that nobody is actually having fun despite being together, and that those who don't say anything are simply too reserved to say it. Personally, I don't mind commanding four or five tanks against a team twice as large, since I don't care about xp or credits or even WR in these battles, but simply the chance to do stuff with the clan and try our best. Or maybe it's just some latent power complex of mine; perhaps I wouldn't have any fun if I were just a "pawn".

Where does training fit into this? From a technical standpoint, we are doing the TCs wrong. I agree that we need to know the maps better. We need to figure out where to hull down, we need to discover places we don't generally bother with in pubs. But what I will say is that this requires discipline as well. What happens when two tanks are running a view range test or trying to figure out some angles, and the rest of the people in the match are just sitting around doing nothing? Do they leave? What happens when people get bored of doing the same routine a few times with only slight modifications so that potential commanders (but not the 'enlisted") can get a better idea of things on a larger scope? Do we have enough players with the patience for this kind of thing? I don't know, but looking at TCs, I'm not optimistic.


That was an example of rigid and incompetent administration and frankly a childish "zero-tolerance" mindset. But that clan did have the will to organize people to do TCs and even CW with some success. Unfortunately its leaders doomed it through senseless policies like the one you describe.

Bah, we're too limp-wristed to become that clan.

Regarding TCs: We set up TC sessions because, as you noted, we wanted people to be able to fight an organized opponent by offering an organized challenge. This is in preparation for bigger things to come.

However, I can understand the mindset of some individuals, who believe they are being dragged into it. See, I don't want that. If people feel like they are working while playing a game, there is something wrong with that atmosphere.

That being said... should we change TC to another, more appropriate time?

- - - - -

As 12ice pointed out, we also need a lot of new people. Recruiting is amongst our first priorities. This cannot be emphasized enough. We need to recruit more.

But, we should not delude ourselves. This clan had only existed for less than a year. Many of our members are young (in terms of game time), they are neither as experienced nor as prolific in their weapons as some of us. People need time to grow. If we do not give them that aspect in the clan, then there will be no organized affair. I know to some veteran players this may sound frustrating, but we'd lose more than we gain if we are impatient.

- Tak

[Sumeragi]

There's a reason why I occasionally recruit people. MuP needs to grow before we can consider CW, and our strength is the willingness to teach the newcomers.

[LeoXiao]

If we want to change the TC schedule, we should look at when people tend to be on the most.

To prepare for CW, we need to constantly encourage (different from "force") people do so and bring people who are interested together on a regular basis.

[Tak]

I think we also need to encourage people to get into vent on a regular basis, even when they are... off duty, ie. not playing.

Get people to be comfortable with one another on a regular basis... then we'd have more people willing to hang out in platoons or other activities.

- Tak

[12ice]

I can start working on a front page for a WoT forum advert if you give me the go ahead. Such a post should be step #1 in attracting recruits and of the right kind.

I'll be submitting it here first for approval, obviously.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by 12ice

I can start working on a front page for a WoT forum advert if you give me the go ahead. Such a post should be step #1 in attracting recruits and of the right kind.

I'll be submitting it here first for approval, obviously.

GO!

Just show me what you got, first

- Tak

[Pen3]

Sad games make my Foch very sad
At least i made 13k profit from a loss.

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[Kamijou_Touma]

last time i recruited wil said no don't get him in the clan, well turns out he was a bad player, according to wil's XVM crap, you see non clan players, some of which may or may not have tier 9 or 10, yet don't want join a clan. meh i can see why, cuz ppl recruitin in game make requirements to make them feel they can't meet them, like must 18+ yrs old, TS3, and T8 arty/scout, or T9/10 tank/TD. I rather see MUP req. min of tier 5 or 6, Vent optional, no age req. but must be cooperative, shoot, even I wouldn't join those clans if their not laid back like MUP or GUNDP. I forgot how Kimi invited me in the first place XD..... I ended up in AS after kimi told me its were you guys hang out to socialize a bit, then Q sent an invite, had some pretty sweet games with the main members, except for dai, but she got better last time i played with her, besides the whining goin around, I liked the old school platoon wit Q and ES, where we out capped them before they killed us, me and ES gave is the Q plan.... be grateful Q since its technique was named after you. and now its all gone, the fun stopped, 8.4 and 8.5 ruined the fun, and MM got worse.

[willx]

Originally Posted by Kamijou_Touma

last time i recruited wil said no don't get him in the clan, well turns out he was a bad player, according to wil's XVM crap, you see non clan players, some of which may or may not have tier 9 or 10, yet don't want join a clan. meh i can see why, cuz ppl recruitin in game make requirements to make them feel they can't meet them, like must 18+ yrs old, TS3, and T8 arty/scout, or T9/10 tank/TD. I rather see MUP req. min of tier 5 or 6, Vent optional, no age req. but must be cooperative, shoot, even I wouldn't join those clans if their not laid back like MUP or GUNDP. I forgot how Kimi invited me in the first place XD..... I ended up in AS after kimi told me its were you guys hang out to socialize a bit, then Q sent an invite, had some pretty sweet games with the main members, except for dai, but she got better last time i played with her, besides the whining goin around, I liked the old school platoon wit Q and ES, where we out capped them before they killed us, me and ES gave is the Q plan.... be grateful Q since its technique was named after you. and now its all gone, the fun stopped, 8.4 and 8.5 ruined the fun, and MM got worse.

Okay, I'm gonna stop you there, you're talking smack or have a poor memory.

1) First of all, you didn't try to recruit him, he asked us whether we were recruiting. We had no interaction with him at all at this point.
2) Secondly, he had less than 1k games, was driving a premium tank, had a sub 44% win rate and proceeded to display a poor attitude during the game (trollish)

[Tak]

KT, I already told you. If you are on, we can plat tonight.

Most of them time when I get home & vent, you are usually already platooning with ES & EK anyway.

- Tak

[Kamijou_Touma]

Originally Posted by willx

Okay, I'm gonna stop you there, you're talking smack or have a poor memory.

1) First of all, you didn't try to recruit him, he asked us whether we were recruiting. We had no interaction with him at all at this point.
2) Secondly, he had less than 1k games, was driving a premium tank, had a sub 44% win rate and proceeded to display a poor attitude during the game (trollish)

yes but you have stupid XVM, so how the heck would i have know if you didn't say so.

[willx]

Originally Posted by Kamijou_Touma

yes but you have stupid XVM, so how the heck would i have know if you didn't say so.

Well, I also have two monitors .. so I use the other one to look up their WoT profile..

That said my primary concern was that we didn't know him and he proceeded to behave like an idiot. Win rate is not necessarily correlated with how pleasant a clanmate a person will be.

[Kamijou_Touma]

true, but we don't know half of the ppl in MUP currently... most of the players have anon status. isn't that why we're recruiting, sure its better to get player's from a friends list or players that we've platooned with in the past, still whats the point in recruiting if you have platooned with anyone from pubbies. idk but the explanation for recruiting ppl you know is really grey, who can you define is ppl you know... and ppl you see in pubs.

I think we should stop here, the mods will think this is similar to texting than posting.

[Tak]

TBH, I have a very open approach to the recruitment process. Basically, I want the officers to be able to exercise his/her own judgment in regards to the eligibility of individuals recruited.

I have faith in our ability to distinguish between obvious trolls and decent players.

That being said, we do have a criteria for recruitment. Although some exceptions, depending on how the recruiters feel at the time, could be made.

- Tak

[Kamijou_Touma]

I agree and to stop using XVM as an excuse not to invite ppl, how are we suppose to get ppl in the clan if ur bar is like taking a Master Thesis or Ph.D bibliography or those books that they write.

and i would rarely invite ppl, i mean clearmedium got invited cuz i said anime lovers and such, shoot if it weren't for GUP, i would never have gotten interested in playin WoT or join a clan, I like to wing stuff like Miho Nishizumi style. everyone should be welcomed and platoon with fellow clan/guild mems. heck if you want to plat with me at low tiers i'll abandon my tier 9s and 10s tanks, although i would never sell them off or anything, they'll just collect dust. in the hangar bay.

[Myssa Rei]

CW business aside, I personally don't have that much problems with low-level platooning, as in general you're not really expected to play like your life depended on it. That's why it's still fun, as there's still space to goof around and still manage to eke out a win. I've found that at tier 9, you can't do that.

When I'm playing with the T-54, you're pretty much going to have to devote all your concentration to the match. There's no way about it, as if you don't play seriously you're not going to get anything out of it (remember, even on a win, you still take a resource hit).

Oh, and because of the high volatility of tiers 8 and upward, I also tend to see Tier 5 matches as "investments", especially if you get a string of wins off it. It helps offset the end results of too many bad endgame matches for example.

P.S. Observation of Relic 2 guys on my behavior while in a fast medium tank: I'm a danger to myself. XD I think they're right in a way, as I usually go pedal to the metal to choke points, which leaves me often without support of either teammates or the members of the platoon. They're usually happier when I'm in a lumbering heavy, because in Sahin the Falcon's own words, "They can keep watch on me."

That said, when I AM in a fast medium (yes for some odd reason they consider the Indienpanzer fast), I can relocate and outflank, and often the guideline for a match is that I keep alive for as long as possible, as I'm usually good at resets or capping.

[Tak]

One of the main reasons why I even bother with Tier 10s is due to the fact that I get to operate tanks like the T-62A and the Leopard. Hell, I think the FV4202 is one sexy tank, if it wasn't so mediocre in the game, I would have made it my first priority to grind.

Otherwise, I am very selective in my tanks. I don't level up just because I need to level up. For this reason, I probably will never get the E-100, even after researching it.

- Tak

[Sumeragi]

I might get the E-100 or Maus, just to give my current German heavy Panzerjager crew something to use.