(L) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru.

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Again, pretty sure that Hayama never confessed to Yukinon. Yukinon was teased mercilessly from the get go for being cute and how being cute affected the lives of others around her. The series heavily implies that Hayama, rather than confessing to Yukinon, actually just sat back and watched it happen.

Yukinon hates Hayama because Hayama was her childhood friend, and instead of risking himself when she was in trouble he left her to the mercy of those around her. Terribad actually put together a great compilation of qoutes from the summary that cover this, quoted below.

Then again, Volume 7 hinted quite strongly that 1. Yukino has been confessed to before, and is.. disgusted about it. 2. Hayato has confessed before, and regrets it. The logical deduction is that Hayato has confessed to Yukino.

About Hayato, Hachiman's comment of him is that he is too kind to oversee people suffering, yet "has too much to protect" to be able to do anything. Again, about the Hayato is evil theory, if he truly is like that he wouldn't have shown any care to a lot of incidents.

[styr]

Personally I hope that Yui "wins" over Yukino. I think a 'nice girl' would be far more healthy in a relationship over Little Miss Perfect... but that's my opinion.

Yui has - in terms of character development - had the most growth in the LNs, compared to Yukino (and Hachiman). Yui was willing to throw away her status in her clique to get together with Hachiman, but his dense head prevented him from doing anything as he didn't want her to commit social suicide "for his sake". I swear Hachiman has no sex drive. At all.

Considering they are halfway through with high school, I think Hachiman is a bit stupid for rejecting her... but I guess he likes keeping the status quo.

Of course, the end of Volume 7... Hachiman kinda shot himself in the foot in terms of his relationship with the other Service Club members. We got another hint that Yukino likes him (I swear the author is extremely pro-Yukino and anti-Yui), among other things. I'm curious as to how the author plans to resolve the situation Hachiman has put himself in.

Yui, why you so cute?!

Spoiler for Kawaii x Yui:

As for Hayato confessing to Yukino... wouldn't they have been in elementary school at the time? That seems a bit far-fetched... I really, really doubt boys that age would be interested in girls romantically. [insert cooties joke]

[Tenzen12]

Japan schools are 7-3-3 aren't they? It's posible if it they were 13 or 14 years old and Hayato could have chance confess later anyway.

About Hikki x Yui, how exactly it's supposed work?

[kobester11]

Yeah, it maybe more than a confession...

Maybe it's Hayama that rejected Yukino in the first place, in favor for some friend? I mean, Hayama always wanted to save everyone right? Like what happened in Vol. 7 , where he couldn't decide which one to help.

Hayama said that what if Hikki was his classmate when they're kids. Maybe he could do the same thing in the Rumi incident.

[Tenzen12]

There is nothing support this theory.

[styr]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Japan schools are 7-3-3 aren't they? It's posible if it they were 13 or 14 years old and Hayato could have chance confess later anyway.

About Hikki x Yui, how exactly it's supposed work?

6-3-3, but yeah, close enough. (Kindergarten isn't usually counted as a "grade")

What's wrong with Hikki x Yui? They would have a normal relationship. Yui's "normal-ness" would act in contrast to 8man's pessimism. I think they would go great together. As someone similar to Hachiman (pragmatic, cynical, pessimistic) in terms of my attitude, I personally prefer dating nice girls compared to someone who is also like me... though nice girls are a lot harder to find at my age (late 20's) than during high school. Hachiman doesn't know what he's missing by rejecting Yui... but I suppose the story is made so that Hachiman will 'fail' time and time again.

Hikki x Yukinon, on the other hand...

I can already picture the amount of bickering and sassy attitude Yukinon + 8man would have for each other. They are so mean to each other I just can't see them having a good relationship unless one or the other drastically changed in attitude. As they are now they simply wouldn't work. The scathing remarks would eventually drive a wedge when they inevitably 'cross the line' by being too blunt/honest... though maybe with all the makeup sex it would balance out?

Lol

The more I think about it though.. (although I really like Yui) I think the LNs will end with Hachiman still single, truth be told. He keeps shooting himself in the foot and due to the social commentary the author is basing his story on... I really doubt Hachiman will change enough by the time the story ends. He seems almost destined to fail.

Just my opinion.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by styr

What's wrong with Hikki x Yui? They would have a normal relationship. Yui's "normal-ness" would act in contrast to 8man's pessimism. I think they would go great together. As someone similar to Hachiman (pragmatic, cynical, pessimistic) in terms of my attitude, I personally prefer dating nice girls compared to someone who is also like me... though nice girls are a lot harder to find at my age (late 20's) than during high school. Hachiman doesn't know what he's missing by rejecting Yui... but I suppose the story is made so that Hachiman will 'fail' time and time again.

There's always the fact that they have nothing in common in terms of hobbies and interests.

And...

Originally Posted by styr

The more I think about it though.. (although I really like Yui) I think the LNs will end with Hachiman still single, truth be told. He keeps shooting himself in the foot and due to the social commentary the author is basing his story on... I really doubt Hachiman will change enough by the time the story ends. He seems almost destined to fail.

Just my opinion.

This. I find it far more likely that Hachiman won't have a relationship by the end of his highschool years.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by icebreaker

Then again, Volume 7 hinted quite strongly that 1. Yukino has been confessed to before, and is.. disgusted about it. 2. Hayato has confessed before, and regrets it. The logical deduction is that Hayato has confessed to Yukino.

About Hayato, Hachiman's comment of him is that he is too kind to oversee people suffering, yet "has too much to protect" to be able to do anything. Again, about the Hayato is evil theory, if he truly is like that he wouldn't have shown any care to a lot of incidents.

I'm not saying Yukinon hasn't been confessed to before, just that she wouldn't hate Hayama for confessing to her; and it's more likely that Hayama, lacking much backbone, did no such thing as confess to her. Particularly when she had become a social pariah, as confessing might've backfired on his own social position.

As for Hachiman's opinion of Hayama, we know that his PoV isn't infallible. He sees a glorified image of Hayama protecting everyone, when the only action Hachiman has seen Hayama commit was when he assaulted Hachiman, a solitary that would have no affect on his own social standing. There might have been resentment there too, as Hachiman was doing what Hayama could never do: throwing himself in the line of fire to protect another.

I don't think Hayama is evil, he's just very conscious of the social hierarchy.

Originally Posted by styr

6-3-3, but yeah, close enough. (Kindergarten isn't usually counted as a "grade")

What's wrong with Hikki x Yui? They would have a normal relationship. Yui's "normal-ness" would act in contrast to 8man's pessimism. I think they would go great together. As someone similar to Hachiman (pragmatic, cynical, pessimistic) in terms of my attitude, I personally prefer dating nice girls compared to someone who is also like me... though nice girls are a lot harder to find at my age (late 20's) than during high school. Hachiman doesn't know what he's missing by rejecting Yui... but I suppose the story is made so that Hachiman will 'fail' time and time again.

Keep in mind Yui is plays a delicate game of balancing on the edge of social circles for her to enjoy highschool. Her going out with Hachiman would literally destroy her, she couldn't take the social baggage that would come with such a development. Honestly speaking I think most of the people around her recognize this, and so pity the whole ordeal. Yui herself isn't quite bright enough to think beyond her feelings to see the inevitable conclusion.

Yukinon is literally the only person that could withstand the barbs of a relationship with Hachiman. But otherwise I'm kind of guessing he'll end single.

Or glorious Totsuka...

[kazzuya13]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Keep in mind Yui is plays a delicate game of balancing on the edge of social circles for her to enjoy highschool. Her going out with Hachiman would literally destroy her, she couldn't take the social baggage that would come with such a development. Honestly speaking I think most of the people around her recognize this, and so pity the whole ordeal. Yui herself isn't quite bright enough to think beyond her feelings to see the inevitable conclusion.

Yukinon is literally the only person that could withstand the barbs of a relationship with Hachiman. But otherwise I'm kind of guessing he'll end single.

Or glorious Totsuka...

I think this will end in a shuraba ending.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

I'm not saying Yukinon hasn't been confessed to before, just that she wouldn't hate Hayama for confessing to her; and it's more likely that Hayama, lacking much backbone, did no such thing as confess to her. Particularly when she had become a social pariah, as confessing might've backfired on his own social position.

As for Hachiman's opinion of Hayama, we know that his PoV isn't infallible. He sees a glorified image of Hayama protecting everyone, when the only action Hachiman has seen Hayama commit was when he assaulted Hachiman, a solitary that would have no affect on his own social standing. There might have been resentment there too, as Hachiman was doing what Hayama could never do: throwing himself in the line of fire to protect another.

I don't think Hayama is evil, he's just very conscious of the social hierarchy.

Again I don't remember single case where Hayato would do something just for his "social status". And if he doesn't have any problem with being friendly with Hikki, there is no reason avoid Yukino either.

Even though I am sure we both reading/watching same thing my Hayato is fairly selfconscious and just go and laught such thing as rejection off, while geting aditional popularity points for being nice guy along with lot of patting on the back.

His problem is that he want help everyone and not hurt anyone. Of course he is hypocrite, but that's completely different issue.

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

I'm not saying Yukinon hasn't been confessed to before, just that she wouldn't hate Hayama for confessing to her; and it's more likely that Hayama, lacking much backbone, did no such thing as confess to her. Particularly when she had become a social pariah, as confessing might've backfired on his own social position.

As for Hachiman's opinion of Hayama, we know that his PoV isn't infallible. He sees a glorified image of Hayama protecting everyone, when the only action Hachiman has seen Hayama commit was when he assaulted Hachiman, a solitary that would have no affect on his own social standing. There might have been resentment there too, as Hachiman was doing what Hayama could never do: throwing himself in the line of fire to protect another.

I don't think Hayama is evil, he's just very conscious of the social hierarchy.

I think Hayato confessed to her, at least that's the logical deduction. But yes I agree that their past and the root of her hate on him now is much more than one confession.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Again I don't remember single case where Hayato would do something just for his "social status". And if he doesn't have any problem with being friendly with Hikki, there is no reason avoid Yukino either.

Even though I am sure we both reading/watching same thing my Hayato is fairly selfconscious and just go and laught such thing as rejection off, while geting aditional popularity points for being nice guy along with lot of patting on the back.

His problem is that he want help everyone and not hurt anyone. Of course he is hypocrite, but that's completely different issue.

Hayato may be somewhat different now, but his conversation with Hachiman after the resolution of Tsurumi Rumi reveals that he's self-conscious enough to recognize an unpleasant truth about himself. Namely, he probably wouldn't have been friends with Hachiman back at primary school. And by extension wasn't with Yukinon.

As for his social standing, keep in mind he knows perfectly well that Hachiman's name is Hichigaya, yet he calls him Hichitani because that's what all his friends do. He's very much submissive to social culture.

He's not the perfect guy you assume him to be.

[csuree]

There is so much scheming going on already that at some point it will become so chaotic that somebody will break under the pressure. I mean from Hayato's side...lies......from Yukino's side....secrets and lies......it looks like only Yui is the one who does not hide anything and is honest with herself and Hachiman.

About the ending.....Probably a neutral one....with nobody pairing up with Hachiman.

Pairings: Yui x Hachiman would be beneficial to Hikki
Yukino x Hachiman would be interesting but NO romantic flag raised yet("aknowledging his existence" or friendship flag is no sign of romance). Although this kind of bickering type pair was present in Bakemonogatari between MC and Hitagi.

Even if Hikki thinks of Yukino as cute, the flatness is not something he is drawn to, he even mocks her about it. As for Yui he commented quite funnily about her "assets".(The 3rd law of phyTITS......)
So if a choice would come out maybe he would choose Yui over Yukino.
And Yukino already knows about her feelings for him so if in the future there is a minimal chance for her(Yukino) to fall for 8man, she will refuse in order to help Yui as she treasures her friendship more. Female version of Bro's before hoes.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Hayato may be somewhat different now, but his conversation with Hachiman after the resolution of Tsurumi Rumi reveals that he's self-conscious enough to recognize an unpleasant truth about himself. Namely, he probably wouldn't have been friends with Hachiman back at primary school. And by extension wasn't with Yukinon.

As for his social standing, keep in mind he knows perfectly well that Hachiman's name is Hichigaya, yet he calls him Hichitani because that's what all his friends do. He's very much submissive to social culture.

He's not the perfect guy you assume him to be.

I think we can both agree that Hayato have thing for Yukino as well that he is aware their special bond, can we? And If I am mot mistaken it was him who called him that way first, Tobe and co. just went along not knowing it's wrong (and then they got used to it). So explanation that he does it from jelousy is plasauble as well as why they wouldn't be friend. My point is Hayato doesn't have problem be seen with outcast like him.

And I never asumed him be perfect just not 2D.

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I think we can both agree that Hayato have thing for Yukino as well that he is aware their special bond, can we? And If I am mot mistaken it was him who called him that way first, Tobe and co. just went along not knowing it's wrong (and then they got used to it). So explanation that he does it from jelousy is plasauble as well as why they wouldn't be friend. My point is Hayato doesn't have problem be seen with outcast like him.

And I never asumed him be perfect just not 2D.

It was Tobe who called Hachiman that first, and I don't think Hayato calls him the same out of jealousy. He calls him the same because it's what his friends do, and he doesn't want to rock the boat by correcting everyone. He's too easy going for that.

Hayato may not have a problem being seen around an outcast now, but he admits it himself he would of had a problem back in primary school, that conversation happened towards the end of volume 4 if I remember correctly.

And I don't deny that Hayato probably has a thing for Yukinon, whether that stems from guilt over mistreating her in primary school, or from something more shallow is up to debate though.

[Tenzen12]

I think I will stop for now in this discussion until either we get more intel from novel or someone else bring some interesting insight, cause now we would just repeat ourself (...nope you are wrong and I am right but more politely).

[TheAlucid]

Originally Posted by csuree

There is so much scheming going on already that at some point it will become so chaotic that somebody will break under the pressure. I mean from Hayato's side...lies......from Yukino's side....secrets and lies......it looks like only Yui is the one who does not hide anything and is honest with herself and Hachiman.

About the ending.....Probably a neutral one....with nobody pairing up with Hachiman.

Pairings: Yui x Hachiman would be beneficial to Hikki
Yukino x Hachiman would be interesting but NO romantic flag raised yet("aknowledging his existence" or friendship flag is no sign of romance). Although this kind of bickering type pair was present in Bakemonogatari between MC and Hitagi.

Even if Hikki thinks of Yukino as cute, the flatness is not something he is drawn to, he even mocks her about it. As for Yui he commented quite funnily about her "assets".(The 3rd law of phyTITS......)
So if a choice would come out maybe he would choose Yui over Yukino.
And Yukino already knows about her feelings for him so if in the future there is a minimal chance for her(Yukino) to fall for 8man, she will refuse in order to help Yui as she treasures her friendship more. Female version of Bro's before hoes.

I think the only problem I have with a Hachiman/Yui relationship is that Yui doesn't seem mentally equipped enough to handle the fallout from the relationship. Like in volume 7 she waits until everyone is not paying attention to Hachiman before striking a quick and covert conversation with him. Unless she gets some -serious- character development in volume 8, and she's becomes able to live solitarily, I can't imagine Hachiman ever giving her the opportunity to confess.

Totsuka was totally able to talk to Hachiman without any repercussions though, just saying. While Yukinon is already impervious to the whims of the social hierarchy.

I kind of doubt it, but what do you guys think of the possibility the author is pulling a bait an switch with Yukinon and Yui with regards to which Hayato has feelings for? I don't really think it's possible though as all the evidence points to him being interested in Yukinon, but still.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I think I will stop for now in this discussion until either we get more intel from novel or someone else bring some interesting insight, cause now we would just repeat ourself (...nope you are wrong and I am right but more politely).

Just saying, we don't have any evidence for Hayato confessing to Yukinon. But we do have evidence that Hayato has a lot more depth than the perfect characterization that Hachiman constructs, and actually has flaws like the rest of them.

To reiterate, I don't think Hayato is evil, I just think the novels have painted the image of a person who wants to be friends with everyone, even if it means being less considerate to people ranked lowly on the social ladder. The novels have also suggested that Hayato didn't even bother trying to be friends with people like Hachiman and Yukinon in the past.

[Shadow5YA]

icebreaker, are you really sure the series is set in Chiba? It doesn't make sense for Komachi to tell Hachiman that she wants to go to Chiba (even if she was misleading) at the beginning of volume 4 if they were already living there.

[Windows X]

In short, Hayama is winner for the crowed but loser for himself?

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

icebreaker, are you really sure the series is set in Chiba? It doesn't make sense for Komachi to tell Hachiman that she wants to go to Chiba (even if she was misleading) at the beginning of volume 4 if they were already living there.

It's set in Chiba perfecture. They were going to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiba,_Chiba

Originally Posted by TheAlucid

Just saying, we don't have any evidence for Hayato confessing to Yukinon. But we do have evidence that Hayato has a lot more depth than the perfect characterization that Hachiman constructs, and actually has flaws like the rest of them.

To reiterate, I don't think Hayato is evil, I just think the novels have painted the image of a person who wants to be friends with everyone, even if it means being less considerate to people ranked lowly on the social ladder. The novels have also suggested that Hayato didn't even bother trying to be friends with people like Hachiman and Yukinon in the past.

We have evidence of Hayato confessing before, and regretting it. Take what you want from it.