To Aru Majutsu no Index - Light Novel - New Testament Volume 7

[Lulu Vie Britania]

Originally Posted by Rovert10

It is a possiblity for Kakine to do so, since he is the "Spare Plan". Dark Matter is as unique a power as Vector Control so we can't throw away the possiblity of awakening. He just hasn't done it yet. It be weird to have Kakine as the backup if he's somehow unable to achieve what Accelerator is ment to do.
Both Dark Matter and Vector Control have those divine names with God built into them.

@dniv
Misaka can't learn magic. It would be suicide for her to do so. Accelerator didn't use magic to invoke white wings. You're looking too far between the events to heal LO and the White Wings in general.
It mostly his change in attitude and behavior that caused it.
Black Wings occured on a revenge driven rampage. White Wings occured as a means to PROTECT Last Order and by proxy the world.
Index's Song may have given him some sort of "divine" revelation (Accel's Wings are noted to be somewhat like Telesma but different) but I don't think Misaka can interpret that herself.

Misaka cannot achieve an awakened state. Despite how powerful her ability may be, it's a really common one so it fails that first requirement. Misaka has always had the attitude to protect those around her. We have yet to see that awakened state regardless.

You forgot that Accelerator showed a big gap in their powers when both of them awakened in 15vol. It was an important event and a hint. I doubt badly that Kakine will be able to reach such level of angel power, as Accelerator. The guy had a bigger potential at all.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Rovert10

It is a possiblity for Kakine to do so, since he is the "Spare Plan". Dark Matter is as unique a power as Vector Control so we can't throw away the possiblity of awakening. He just hasn't done it yet.

Kakine did awaken in his first fight with Accelerator though. After he sees Accelerator's black wings this happens:

Spoiler for Volume 15:

Kakine’s six wings, as if responding to his roar, spread explosively. The wings that spanned several tens of meters emitted a mysterious glow, and at the same time had an inorganic feel like a machine. Almost like a giant weapon gods and angels normally use.

Flap. The air around the six wings let out a howl.

Accelerator and Dark Matter controlled the organic and inorganic powers respectively.

Different from this world, this was 'organic' and 'inorganic' in terms of a different world. The One Who Wields the Power of God and The One Who Has Touched the Territory of God. Now the odds of victory were even, only that unlike Accelerator, Kakine hadn't lost himself.

An unprecedented power was expanding within him.

And, he had perfectly mastered this power.

Now the position of the Number One and Number Two of Academy City was about to be reversed. This was neither a bluff nor an exaggeration. He now believed even if he fought against all the armies in the world, and even every esper in Academy City, he could emerge victorious and unharmed.

“Hahaha!! Uwahahahaha!!”

Kakine laughed and waved his completely awakened six wings down at Accelerator.

He no longer saw Accelerator as a threat, but only a thing to test his new powers on.

That's clearly awakening. Most of the time however his white wings are just constructs of his power, and not "Awakening wings"

I'd also like to point out that we know so very little about awakening (hell even "Awakening" is a fan-made term) that any speculation is pretty much pointless. True we haven't seen any evidence that Misaka can awaken but who the hell knows.

[Rovert10]

Even there is a lot more evidence of Kakine reaching anything close to Accelerator's Wings rather than Misaka.

[Acer]

all this talk about "awakening", reminded me that I read some years ago in index.wiki that Touma could also "awakening", always read the volumes anxious waiting for the part that say this, but it never came. Death to liars who destroy our illusions.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Acer

all this talk about "awakening", reminded me that I read some years ago in index.wiki that Touma could also "awakening", always read the volumes anxious waiting for the part I'd say this, but it never came. Death to liars who destroy our illusions.

Now that you mention it.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Pfft, nothing beats the hilarious rumor of Kamijou's brain/Imagine Breaker being Defcon 3...

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by Acer

all this talk about "awakening", reminded me that I read some years ago in index.wiki that Touma could also "awakening", always read the volumes anxious waiting for the part that say this, but it never came. Death to liars who destroy our illusions.

touma might awaken somewhere close to the end of to aru majutsu no index(but don't get your hopes up, anything could happen though).

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Lulu Vie Britania

Lol, person, I was asking about Accel and Rensa, why I need anything about Kakine right now?
And ehm,hm, Kakine didn't awakened in this battle. These wings were created with his Dark Matter.
And it haven't been proven yet that Accel needs magic for his white wings and halo. I am sure he doesn't. He awakened with Saint power from his science /black wings/ form, magic didn't help him do this.(he needed magic for treating LO I think).
And I do not understand why you are sure Kakine can obtain the Accelerator's angel form. I think this power is only able for Accel and is still HIS OWN power, it is a unique power as Kamachi wrote in 22 vol.

Sorry for not responding earlier. I was just saying I noticed that Kakine also couldn't have a halo just like Rensa. The reason I think it isn't just Accelerator's power is because Aiwass told him that when he got a halo he finally entered the new aeon of Horus(?). Aiwass was already at this level and he said he could transform also one time. So this meant that he was at the next aeon. I just figured that Accelerator getting the halo meant he was near the level of Aiwass before he transforms. I felt therefore that by achieving this level Kakine could get wings. I thought that white winged kakine is like black winged Accelerator. Yeah, the wings represent the change in how the espers feel, (like maybe Index's red wings represented anger), but I just thought this because Crowley commented on how Accelerator became winged after downloading data from AIM fields which showed that getting wings is a natural step in the esper evolution process when you get stronger by downloading all of the data in the AIM fields. This is why I didn't see why other level 5's wouldn't be able to do this. I understand that we've only seen two espers with original powers do this, but I'm just hoping this doesn't become too #1, #2 centric. The reason I have hope is because we finally saw 6 level 5's semi-working together in this volume or at least in the same place at the same time.

People can call it stuff just for fans, but I thought it's a nice natural progression. I'm expecting that Index SSS on July 24, 2013 will introduce the #6 like SS introduced Gunha... I compared Accelerator to Aiwass in terms of getting the white wings and the halo because I saw it as you being able to get a halo only once you recognize the existence of both magic and science. This is because the only characters we have seen so far with a halo have seen both magic and science (Aiwass and Accelerator)... I wonder whether Crowley can also get wings... or power up in some crazy way past where he normally is at... Being able to teleport seemingly anywhere is pretty strong though anyway.

In terms of Rensa existing before: I'm pretty sure Rensa existed way back during the Sisters arc, as soon as people noticed it was going to fail. Since AC said it needed Rensa to stop protesting level 5's, and academy city seems paranoid about keeping level 5's and other espers in check, I'm sure they already had some sort of Rensa in place to keep the level 5's in check. I doubt AC would have liked to rely on someone like Crowley who most people don't even know is able to use magic, to fix the problem. This makes me think that we really don't know that much of what is going on.

I've also always felt like everything Aleister doesn't meddle in is basically something that will end up rosy for him. I'm sure he just plans ahead for everything happening. I'm not sure though about what he's going through in NT...

In addition, I feel like Fiamma who just thought of magic was stuck in the Aeon of Osiris, which was why he lost: that's what Crowley told him. If he had thought of both magic and science he could have done better. This is why I felt anyway that Accelerator's power came from knowledge of both science and magic. But... yeah we need to find out more first I guess. BTW: when did Othinus mention Kiluhea exploding? I don't remember that. I must have skipped it somehow...



Out of curiosity: Was Kakine Teitoku's network a reference/throw out to Evangelion? I know Kamachi doesn't really do that very much... but...

Lastly, what precautions could Kakine have taken against Accelerator's reflection so he could attack randomly?...

Also, what Rensa says bothers me. She said: "We don't want individuality"... but aren't esper powers what they are just because of personal reality?... That's why the level 5's are strong: their personalities... so what do they mean they don't want individuality?... I mean sure they like having a Rensa... but that doesn't seem all too useful...

Finally, I realized a mistake Kamachi made. If Rensa can only use the powers of living espers, if half of the level 5's are killed and multiple level 5's are fighting her at once, her powers will only be those of the remaining level 5's right? The fewer level 5's remaining, the weaker Rensa is... which means that AC must have something else to keep them in check or that Kamachi just flubbed slightly.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by dniv

People can call it stuff just for fans, but I thought it's a nice natural progression. I'm expecting that Index SSS on July 24, 2013 will introduce the #6 like SS introduced Gunha... I compared Accelerator to Aiwass in terms of getting the white wings and the halo because I saw it as you being able to get a halo only once you recognize the existence of both magic and science. This is because the only characters we have seen so far with a halo have seen both magic and science (Aiwass and Accelerator)... I wonder whether Crowley can also get wings... or power up in some crazy way past where he normally is at... Being able to teleport seemingly anywhere is pretty strong though anyway.

Sorry to break your illusions but that SSS is about the magic side like the previous one that was bundled with Railgun's DVD/BDs.

In terms of Rensa existing before: I'm pretty sure Rensa existed way back during the Sisters arc. Since AC said it needed Rensa to stop protesting level 5's, and academy city seems paranoid about keeping level 5's and other espers in check, I'm sure they already had some sort of Rensa in place to keep the level 5's in check. I doubt AC would have liked to rely on someone like Crowley who most people don't even know is able to use magic, to fix the problem. This makes me think that we really don't know that much of what is going on.

Rensa hinted he was made after Vol.15 events which is the first time Accelerator used black wings.


Also, they have to keep them in check, they are level 5's and the face of Academy City's happy facade.

In addition, I feel like Fiamma who just thought of magic was stuck in the Aeon of Osiris, which was why he lost: that's what Crowley told him. If he had thought of both magic and science he could have done better. This is why I felt anyway that Accelerator's power came from knowledge of both science and magic. But... yeah we need to find out more first I guess. BTW: when did Othinus mention Kiluhea exploding? I don't remember that. I must have skipped it somehow...

In accord to Crowley, the correct way is "updating your personal reality" Accelerator does it by using control beyond science, but Fiamma never weilded power beyond legend and myths, he didn't want to trascend a person higher than god, he only wanted to save the world afterall

This is why I didn't see why other level 5's wouldn't be able to do this. I understand that we've only seen two espers with original powers do this, but I'm just hoping this doesn't become too #1, #2 centric.

No divine-like description = Nothing special for them.

Out of curiosity: Was Kakine Teitoku's network a reference/throw out to Evangelion? I know Kamachi doesn't really do that very much... but...

Just a better version of Misaka Network, since it can't be hacked trough one individual like Yakumi tried, thus only a little fragment got separated from the net and the others joined together.

Yakumi thoght that hacking one R. Bettle would be enough to render Kakine useless.

But AC wants something easy to control thus choosing Misaka Network.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Sorry to break your illusions but that SSS is about the magic side like the previous one that was bundled with Railgun's DVD/BDs.



Rensa hinted he was made after Vol.15 events which is the first time Accelerator used black wings.


Also, they have to keep them in check, they are level 5's and the face of Academy City's happy facade.





In accord to Crowley, the correct way is "updating your personal reality" Accelerator does it by using control beyond science, but Fiamma never weilded power beyond legend and myths, he didn't want to trascend a person higher than god, he only wanted to save the world afterall


No divine-like description = Nothing special for them.



Just a better version of Misaka Network, since it can't be hacked trough one individual like Yakumi tried, thus only a little fragment got separated from the net and the others joined together.

Yakumi thoght that hacking one R. Bettle would be enough to render Kakine useless.

But AC wants something easy to control thus choosing Misaka Network.

Everything else you said I agree with. But Kamachi actually said he didn't know what this SSS would be about. But, he did say it would be about different things than Index SS 1 and 2. Also, both SS's covered magic and science... so I don't see why we wouldn't see science... But actually... we saw both magic and science.

and I am sure Crowley told Fiamma he had to think outside of the framework of christianity. If had done so, he could have recognized IB and had succeeded in his plan. This sounds like you need magic + science... what else would it be because as we saw: Christianity=magic in Index.

Lastly, I guess we'll just see. I get what you are saying about who are the major characters... we just have to wait and see though... He might throw something new in there. Misaki/Mikoto's relationship is making me hopeful something big will happen soon.

[Blizzard]

I don't have much interest in the whole debate but Christianity definitely doesn't automatically equal magic just because Christians caused the most trouble in Old Testament. Heck even then, their magicians frequently used ancient runes and shinto teachings and whatnot. Idol Theory too isn't just reserved for christian myth I mean just look at Valkyries and Gremlin or Ollerus too for that matter.

Even Birdway turned her own body into a symbol for her magic independent from all past legends in contrast to magicians who mostly rely on already existing and well spread Idols. Thinking about it, it still has the same origin with Idol Theory though.

More like Kamijou-san is quite the expert by now for figuring that out isn't he? He couldn't have gotten there without truly understanding the core idea behind the Idol Theory all those old fashion magicians kept using. Index sure rubbed off on him. With how hardcore he became with deciphering even never-before-seen magic and how dead set he is on his "ideals" to begin with, I'm glad he can't use it. Not that we don't have the magician version of him in Thor I mean *cough*

[Miraluka]

From what I read that Index SSS is going to be bundled with Railgun II's dvd/bd like the first season did.


Index I and II's DVD/BDs had Railgun SS1 and SS2 while Railgun did the same for Index SS.


They're repeating the same pattern while at the same time hinting things about the magic side for the next volumes. Gungnir for example and the Saints/Valkyries we got to see on NT series actually started on Index SS about Norse Mithology.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

From what I read that Index SSS is going to be bundled with Railgun II's dvd/bd like the first season did.


Index I and II's DVD/BDs had Railgun SS1 and SS2 while Railgun did the same for Index SS.


They're repeating the same pattern while at the same time hinting things about the magic side for the next volumes. Gungnir for example and the Saints/Valkyries we got to see on NT series actually started on Index SS about Norse Mithology.

Oh ok. I see. I did know it was coming out with Railgun S, but I didn't realize they showed the opposite series only each time. But then again, Index SSS might not only be about magic right?... and even then... Maybe #6 is involved with magic somehow? I mean the #6 is apparently not easily found and is never anywhere... I just think there's a good chance we will at least have the #6 introduced and it will be a segueway to NT 8. I feel this way because: as I said, Gunha was in Index SS 1 or 2. So why not have #6 introduced as well?

And blizzard, I agree with what you are saying. I just feel like Crowley was referring to the need to adopt science because that was what he did. He was #1 magician and became #1 science person. And now he can teleport or at least exist in more than one place at a time. To me, this feels like he needed both magic and science to accomplish this... but there isn't enough evidence either way in this debate so neither of us can get "definitive" proof yet of either thing we're saying... so this is kind of a pointless debate. I just wanted to point out that such a possibility of crazy things happening might still exist, that's all. Kamachi always surprises us after all, just saying.

[Acer]

I hope more saints are presented in the SSS.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Acer

I hope more saints are presented in the SSS.

Why not? There are 20... we've only seen a few of them. We should get more as well...

[Acer]

and want to understand how it works this ranking them, will be based on the amount of physical characteristics equal to the son of God? in this case the number 1 could have the same power of Othinus to distort reality, but only could use to turn water into wine? and perhaps other alcoholic beverage? I imagine him applied the concept of the multiplication of loaves in battle.

[Birdway]

@dniv:
You're confusing the SS booklets (bundled with the DVD) with the SS novels(published by Dengeki).

Also, that Gunha'ss was included with the Railgun manga Tankobon and its done by Ryogo Narita(Baccano's author).

[Acer]

for those interested, a site Japanese wrote a review about the volume 7: http://kodoku21.blog83.fc2.com/blog-entry-2905.html

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Birdway

@dniv:
You're confusing the SS booklets (bundled with the DVD) with the SS novels(published by Dengeki).

Also, that Gunha'ss was included with the Railgun manga Tankobon and its done by Ryogo Narita(Baccano's author).

I didn't know those were two different thing. Lolz. Thank you for that clarification.

Mood==Embarrassed... lolz...

Thanks. Aww...

OH, and I know about the other author writing that SS, but it is cannon.

Then what's Index SSS? It's not an SS...

[Raisingfalcon]

Best part of NT7 had to be Gunha appearing. AMAZING PUUUUNCH!