Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[cyoti]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I think L-11 would be a pretty boring MC without Haruto. Generic angsty backstory, invincible supersoldier, mind like a computer...

I agree.

I think if anything it's why Okouchi avoided using him as the perspective/pov character in his VVV episodes.

[Destined_Fate]

Because L-Elf is invincible right now is why I believe he will be set up to fail hard and all of his plans will amount to nothing. Especially if the 200 year future is in fact their future as Saki being hunted implies something went wrong.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Key Board

to be honest L-Elf feels too invincible at the moment

it feels that nothing will go wrong, because his plans are always flawless except for that onetime detour by Shoko

at least Lelouch had Suzaku to foil his plans

not sure if this is a good thing or not, but what's clear is there's going to be less tension now in combat

Honestly, I always liked OP characters more than the others because I'm more interested in seeing HOW they do it, more so than the WILL they do it.

However, I think that there will be plenty of troubles to come even with L-11 on their side. He has his own plans that might go against theirs, also there is no way they are going to always be able to save "everyone" as Haruto wants. That will probably lead to problems down the line, especially with Haruto.

[DuelGundam2099]

I think L-11 would be a pretty boring MC without Haruto. Generic angsty backstory, invincible supersoldier, mind like a computer...

I can tell by this you've never seen Armored Trooper VOTOMS, Chirico was just like L-Elf and still managed to be entertaining and what have you the entire time. Besides, I think L-Elf would make a better MC, Haruto really does not seem that interesting (yet, I'll still give him time though).

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I think L-11 would be a pretty boring MC without Haruto. Generic angsty backstory, invincible supersoldier, mind like a computer...

Actually I consider Haruto the more generic one, who mind you has gone through more than half the series with really no real development. Now, that's not to say he's a bad MC, I think he's pretty good as far a Sunrise MCs go. I just find Haruto kind of bland so far. I actually would be more bored with the show if it was only Haruto and they took out L-11.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

I can tell by this you've never seen Armored Trooper VOTOMS, Chirico was just like L-Elf and still managed to be entertaining and what have you the entire time. Besides, I think L-Elf would make a better MC, Haruto really does not seem that interesting (yet, I'll still give him time though).

You're right, I haven't seen that show. But so far L-Elf is way too generic and powerful to be an interesting and likeable main character. (Subjective opinion, of course.) Frankly, he'd be a total Stu. The way the show is written, he has Haruto to bounce off of, and the personality clash between the two of them result in an interesting and enjoyable dynamics.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Actually I consider Haruto the more generic one, who mind you has gone through more than half the series with really no real development. Now, that's not to say he's a bad MC, I think he's pretty good as far a Sunrise MCs go. I just find Haruto kind of bland so far. I actually would be more bored with the show if it was only Haruto and they took out L-11.

I don't think that a good character is necessarily one that gets the most development, or is the most exciting one out of the entire cast... (btw, it's not like Haruto has not developed since the start, it's just that there wasn't anything huge since ep 1-2.)

Haruto is a more traditional type lead character, he's nothing new or particularly fresh, but he's written well enough to carry the show. L-11 alone would overpower it. Haruto doesn't, he lets everyone "breathe," but has enough personality and charm to carry the cast and the story, and serve as a focus for the Module-77 cast (most importantly L-11).

(He reminds me a bit of Kouji from Ryvius, except Haruto is more proactive.)

IMO Haruto and L-11 are both necessary for the show because their dynamics is a spice that gives the show a very nice and enjoyable "taste." But as far as focus characters go, I think Haruto is better suited for that.

[Nayrael]

L-11 would be an interesting character IMO: he is badass, has an interesting backstory and has a defines goal.
Yes, he is OP but not that OP that he could accomplish anything he wanted. His main goal for one is something he needs to put an effort into and Haruto actually just makes accomplishing it easier.

He is like Lelouhc IMO and Lelouch worked very well for me as an MC.

[Destined_Fate]

Lelouch also had clear faults and him being physically weak, thus needing to rely on others all the time, also played a part for him. Lelouch also made mistakes when victory was his because of Nunnally.

We haven't seen L-Elf make screw ups as big as Lelouch just yet.

[Bern-san]

Of course we need both L-Elf and Haruto, if not what about the sugar in the coffee?

One of the tracks used during one of the Dorssia scenes reminded me a bit of Star War's Imperial March

The episode was awesome as usual although now I want to know more about Dorssia's history and the hell was patch-man talking about with that mark on his neck

[Key Board]

As said, Lelouch had Suzaku to foil his plans every now and then..

you knew things would never go too well for Lelouch because Suzaku spinkick will happen sooner or later

right now L-Elf doesn't have a foil yet.

yes, Shoko does have sway. Yes, she can influence Haruto, which in turn can influence L-Elf

but she's not really a foil, because they're on the same side and she is not actively going against him

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Lelouch also had clear faults and him being physically weak, thus needing to rely on others all the time, also played a part for him. Lelouch also made mistakes when victory was his because of Nunnally.

We haven't seen L-Elf make screw ups as big as Lelouch just yet.

The foil just hasn't been introduced yet. If he were that OP, he wouldn't need Haruto in the first place. someone in Dorssia is an obstacle to his ambitions and even his Gary Stuness can't help him without a proper Plot Device.

And even if by some chance there weren't one, he'd have gotten it if he were a protagonist. The same character won't be treated by the writer and the story the same way as an MC is.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

He is like Lelouhc IMO and Lelouch worked very well for me as an MC.

He's not Lelouch though. He's Lelouch and Suzaku all in one, which makes him 100% invincible. There is nobody as smart or as skilled as he is, to the point it's hard to believe he could ever fail.

Originally Posted by Nayrael

The foil just hasn't been introduced yet. If he were that OP, he wouldn't need Haruto in the first place. someone in Dorssia is an obstacle to his ambitions and even his Gary Stuness can't help him without a proper Plot Device.

The appearance of Haruto and the Valvrave only sped up his plans. He was confident he could revolutionize Dorssia on his own, it would have just taken him a few more years. Cain will probably be the main obstacle to his ambition, but I don't think he suspects it yet (after all, he's not omniscient even if it sometimes feels that way... right?).

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

You're right, I haven't seen that show. But so far L-Elf is way too generic and powerful to be an interesting and likeable main character. (Subjective opinion, of course.) Frankly, he'd be a total Stu. The way the show is written, he has Haruto to bounce off of, and the personality clash between the two of them result in an interesting and enjoyable dynamics.

L-Elf is the Lelouch or even the Reinhard type character. I have to admit I like his character type a lot.

Although as others have pointed out Lelouch wasn't physically strong like L-Elf and of course Reinhard had Yang Wenli.

But yes definitely L-Elf & Haruto work the best as a pair. They have amazing chemistry. As Haruto said it's like the perfect cup of coffee the right mix of bitterness and sweetness.

I doubt L-Elf is truly unstoppable though. If he was and all he needed was to tell Haruto what to do the show would over pretty soon.

[Mad Pierrot]

Finally they are developing L-Elf. I'm surprised nobody from the Dorssian forces has been able to come up with plans to stop L-Elf though.

[takai]

This is starting to feel repetitive. First it's talking for awhile, then the Dorssian's attack, then by some miracle they beat them. The end.

Something else needs to happen. Besides an upbeat music video.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

First it was ham and egg sandwiches and now coffee! Are those two planning brunch?

It's what they're going to have on their first "real" date, as they buff out the terms of their marriage contract.

But seriously I loved this episode. It was, funny, heartwarming and bittersweet....just like that coffee.

I think Haruto and L-Elf work together as an MC pair, they need it each other for everything to work out. I think one of L-Elf's best skills is he realizes he can't do everything alone, and utilizes people and things to thebest of their ability. In turn Haruto will help give him a human perspective, and emotionally ground him.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

First it was ham and egg sandwiches and now coffee! Are those two planning brunch?

The perfect meal for the morning after

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by takai

This is starting to feel repetitive. First it's talking for awhile, then the Dorssian's attack, then by some miracle they beat them. The end.

Something else needs to happen. Besides an upbeat music video.

Well, I think that eventually either the student-state falls or Haruto/L-Elf and friends go on the offensive for a change.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, I think that eventually either the student-state falls or Haruto/L-Elf and friends go on the offensive for a change.

I think that according to L-11's contract with Haruto is that they will do as he says with his plans to bring revolution to Dorssia, in exchange for his help defending the school, as well as Haruto and his loved ones. I think L-11 is going to go ahead with his plans to militarize NeoJIOR and from the look of his next episode with a whistle, he might begin training them in the art of warfare.

On another note, I was looking at the episode again and I was wondering. What if this....



is holding the entity that is standing behind VVV-tan? Sort of her evil opposite?

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think that according to L-11's contract with Haruto is that they will do as he says with his plans to bring revolution to Dorssia, in exchange for his help defending the school, as well as Haruto and his loved ones. I think L-11 is going to go ahead with his plans to militarize NeoJIOR and from the look of his next episode with a whistle, he might begin training them in the art of warfare.

It'll be interesting to see exactly what kind of training he puts them through, and how that goes over with everyone. I get the feeling L-Elf is a bit of a taskmaster. Not to mention he was their enemy at one time and I can't imagine all the students will want to follow/listen to him, especially say Thunder and Satomi.