(L+CR) My Teenage RomCom SNAFU (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru)

[EroKing]

[Sumeragi]

Girls Power!

[Windows X]

IMO. The way Yukino acts like Vice-President is more suitable than being president. I can see clearly how she'll be shunned by her sub-ordinates being president. Well, she's already shunned regardless so I guess it doesn't matter much anyway.

[Von Himmel]

Well honestly she's more perfect for desk work. Being shunned doesn't really matter either way as long as the festival works out nicely.. though there might be a problem where people will stop helping her because of her attitude, but I'd reckon that wouldn't happen if she'd became the president.

Seriously though, if Sagami be a little more competent or at least a bit more enthusiastic about it then the festival will work out nicely

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

No... I'm pretty sure Haruno enjoys seeing Yukino trying to chase after her shadow. If Haruno was really pushing Yukino to succeed, she would push Yukino to try to find her own calling as Shizuka suggests.

Maybe it is a sibling kind of thing, you always push your brother or sister to be best regardless what path she/he chooses. Even if you don't really like them aping you, you will always support and help them to be more successful than any non family members in whatever they do. And if stranger tries to use one against each other, in most cases a sense of protection kicks in, I think that is what we saw when Sagami tried to use Haruno against Yukino to her advantage. Maybe from an outside view the choices of the elder siblings do look odd, but most of the time they mean well.

looks like it was an interesting episode, 3-4 pages missed....
I'm quite interested in the authour now, I wonder if she/he studied social science or something

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

No, it's actually more clear that Yukino can't be the committee head because she lacks Haruno's flexible personality in dealing with other people. Instead, she's fixated on Haruno being "perfect," so she handles everything on her own, thinking it's the easiest way to get everything "right" the way Haruno did.

And Yukino did a great job. The only problem is when you only have one support pillar, everything falls apart when that one pillar collapses.

Do you remember why Sagami decided give people slack? It was cause everything went swiftly. While Yukino indeed lack flexibility of her sister she get stuff running and only person who actualy showed any dissatisfaction were Sagami herself.

And guys I can't belive you didn't noticed something such blatant as that three quarter of commite WERE GONE to do their class projects. EVERYONE of people that left were overworking theirself not just Yukino to be able keep with schedule. Just watch episode again and think about what Hikki said.

PS: Shadows5YA: I consider your post actualy one of most credible here, but It were suited to adress these issues. So just let you know I mostly aknowledge your points.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Uh... no, Sagami never made any effort from the beginning. Remember that she begged the Service Club to help her before she ever participated in a committee meeting - meaning she had no idea how difficult the position was to begin with.

Second, "why bother" is not an excuse considering she is the committee chairman, meaning she officially has authority over Yukino. If Yukino was stealing everyone's thunder, she has the power to overrule her, but she didn't. Sagami went with whatever Yukino suggested, and the only time she ever spoke out against her was when encouraged by Haruno. Even then, it was not even entirely her decision, as Haruno masterfully manipulated her by inflating her ego with compliments.

Also remember that even with Yukino doing the bulk of the work, Hachiman and and several other committee members are still doing their share, however small. Sagami has no excuse for being repeatedly tardy or outright absent.

Overrule her? Despite what Haruno claims, Yukino is scary. She even caused blondie to cry during the camp, and that girl is scary herself.

Uh... do you realize what you are saying? You do realize that you are admitting to Sagami leeching off of Yukino, right?

Sure?

Sagami wanted to do the chairman thing for the sake of it. She probably wanted to do the cool, public facing stuff while leaving any tough decisions or hard work to Yukino.

This isn't good or admirable haviour on Sagami's part.

Originally Posted by Somnus

On the other hand, Yukino was the one that truly disgusted me this episode. Watching her willing get stepped all over through the episode made me cringe the entire time. I seriously had a hard time watching, and I'd love to hear her reasoning for it all. My best guess at the moment is her personal vendetta to get out of her sister's shadow mixed in with self-punishment for what she "did" to Hikki. Mind you, I don't think that's a good reason at all.

I figured this is what always happens.

Yukino does everything by herself, refusing to rely on people or comprise on her opinions. Then someone "pressures" her to back down, normally using numbers (e.g. the rest of us want to do it the other way) to do so. People don't confront her directly except during this group pressure thing so there is not much she can do.

[n120cky]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

And Yukino did a great job. The only problem is when you only have one support pillar, everything falls apart when that one pillar collapses.

It's make me think if Yukino really is in trouble, will Haciman help her? IMO helping her and make the festival a success is two different think I guess . . ., I curious on what is Hachiman trying to achieve.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Overrule her? Despite what Haruno claims, Yukino is scary. She even caused blondie to cry during the camp, and that girl is scary herself.

Remember that Sagami can and did overrule Yukino when Haruno complimented her on her "work". On top of giving Haruno a spot for her band performance, she told the committee to relax and focus on classroom activities after Haruno's encouragement against Yukino's suggestions.

Sagami is clearly not discouraged, so the excuse does not hold ground. Even if she was, there are still multiple committee members like Hachiman who still do a share of the paperwork while Yukino is in charge. Even if you could somehow justify her taking a backseat to Yukino, there is no reason for Sagami to be frequently tardy or absent and not do any work at all.

And don't tell me there isn't any work Sagami can do - even Yukino admitted that they are on a tight schedule and can't afford to be slacking off.

[novalysis]

Personally, I want to punch Sagami and the two girls right in the face throughout this episode. Seriously, Yukinio should have just gave Sagami the rope to hang herself. The very character makes me boil in rage. Actually, I think it's a mercy that Yui is not caught up in this terrific fireball of a trainwreck. I really think Yukino was protecting Yui here - and Yui didn't want to be protected.

It was of course painfully obvious how this episode would turn out, honestly speaking. I think the ending is rather obvious too - Sagami would get off scott-free, screw ups would be pinned on Yukino etc....

Those three girls are the equivalent of the cliche of Japanese school bullies. I wonder what actually goes on in those caricatures of characters.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Remember that Sagami can and did overrule Yukino when Haruno complimented her on her "work". On top of giving Haruno a spot for her band performance, she told the committee to relax and focus on classroom activities after Haruno's encouragement against Yukino's suggestions.

Sagami is clearly not discouraged, so the excuse does not hold ground. Even if she was, there are still multiple committee members like Hachiman who still do a share of the paperwork while Yukino is in charge. Even if you could somehow justify her taking a backseat to Yukino, there is no reason for Sagami to be frequently tardy or absent and not do any work at all.

And don't tell me there isn't any work Sagami can do - even Yukino admitted that they are on a tight schedule and can't afford to be slacking off.

She had Haruno to back up her that time. If she didn't have that then Yukino would have shutdown her suggestion. Sagami was clearly enjoying her chance to "win" against Yukino, that was probably the only time she was able to do so.

Sagami is the chairman, is she supposed to let the vice chairman boss her around? To work under her?

*sighs*

The point I am trying to make is that it is not all Sagami's fault. Yukino was supposed to be the vice chairman, instead she overstepped her role and started acted like the chairman. Sagami couldn't stop her because Yukino is actually a better chairman than she is.

Yukino should have just agreed to be the chairman in the first place. And nominated Hachiman as her vice chairman obviously.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by moridin84

She had Haruno to back up her that time. If she didn't have that then Yukino would have shutdown her suggestion. Sagami was clearly enjoying her chance to "win" against Yukino, that was probably the only time she was able to do so.

Sagami is the chairman, is she supposed to let the vice chairman boss her around? To work under her?

*sighs*

The point I am trying to make is that it is not all Sagami's fault. Yukino was supposed to be the vice chairman, instead she overstepped her role and started acted like the chairman. Sagami couldn't stop her because Yukino is actually a better chairman than she is.

Yukino should have just agreed to be the chairman in the first place. And nominated Hachiman as her vice chairman obviously.

That would have been the ideal solution and if OreGairu was a more upbeat and conventional Rom-com, this would have been the direction the plot would have taken. Sagami would not be present, Yukino would have allowed herself to be volunteered, and the whole committee would turn into an extension of the Service Club. Undoubtedly it isan interesting angle to go down with. In a way, it seems that the momentum and Hachiman's monologue was leading up to this. The main problem would likely have been Yukino antagonizing some of the committee though - and Yui probably taking the role of being the diplomat, and Hachiman the enforcer.

But of course, this is OreGairu, where sub-optimal situations are taken, sub-optimal routes traveled, the old Rom-com/Harem indecisive circling of relationships being built not by the plot-device of "being dumb", but because of social scars, etc, etc... just like Hagani.

However unlike Hagani, things don't go right for the male MC, they tend to go Murphy's law wrong.

Seriously, in the first few minutes of this episode, I thought this was going in the direction of the whole service club winding up with de-facto control over the School Festival. But then, the dramatic tension would probably have shifted to the romantic conflict, something that I suspect the author deliberately avoided, on the account of being too overused in Harem novels.

OreGairu, by it's very title alone is take that to the Harem and Rom-com genre.

[Tenzen12]

The point I am trying to make is that it is not all Sagami's fault. Yukino was supposed to be the vice chairman, instead she overstepped her role and started acted like the chairman. Sagami couldn't stop her because Yukino is actually a better chairman than she is.

Yukino should have just agreed to be the chairman in the first place. And nominated Hachiman as her vice chairman obviously

-Yukino doesn't have any obvious ambition, she doesn't want show up and she doesn't want be compared to her sister. Even fact that she agreed help were lampshaded as unusuas and out of character by Yui and Hikki.

-And of course Hikki would have to agree in first place, which is quite doubtfull in this situation

- Your point is Yukino should just do paperwork and let Sagami fail, did I get it right?

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by moridin84

She had Haruno to back up her that time. If she didn't have that then Yukino would have shutdown her suggestion. Sagami was clearly enjoying her chance to "win" against Yukino, that was probably the only time she was able to do so.

"Only time"?

Haruno is there to stay for the remainder of the festival. There are many more chances to "win" against Yukino, considering she allowed Hayato to help because the student council president said "Haruno would have accepted help!"

Haruno wasn't present during that scene.

Originally Posted by moridin84

Sagami is the chairman, is she supposed to let the vice chairman boss her around? To work under her?

*sighs*

The point I am trying to make is that it is not all Sagami's fault. Yukino was supposed to be the vice chairman, instead she overstepped her role and started acted like the chairman. Sagami couldn't stop her because Yukino is actually a better chairman than she is.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is all Sagami's fault because she wanted Yukino to do all the work.

You might have had a point if you were discussing the student council present (Meguri) or the festival committee as a whole. Then you could say Yukino stripped them of their authority against their will.

Originally Posted by moridin84

Yukino should have just agreed to be the chairman in the first place. And nominated Hachiman as her vice chairman obviously.

Sagami wanted the position for the reputation. Yukino did not precisely because she did not want the reputation of being compared to her sister.

It should be that simple.

I would say the bigger reason why Yukino was able to take charge is because Sagami was the one who nominated her as vice-chairman precisely so that Yukino can have the authority to do all the work.

And going back to this:

Originally Posted by moridin84

Overrule her? Despite what Haruno claims, Yukino is scary. She even caused blondie to cry during the camp, and that girl is scary herself.

The only reason Yukino is "scary" is because most of the time, what she says is right and whenever she is correcting someone on being wrong, it comes off as her being antagonistic unlike Haruno who is flexible enough to cover her criticism with compliments.

Whenever someone else has a correct point that can't be pointed out as "wrong" (Meguri telling Yukino to accept Hayato's help, Yui asserting herself as Yukino's friend, Saki telling her to mind her own business), Yukino has nothing to say in response. She is not a delinquent or tyrant.

Unless Sagami actually has some ideas of her own, the only reason why people don't communicate or cooperate with her is because of the simple belief, "I don't like this girl."

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by novalysis

That would have been the ideal solution and if OreGairu was a more upbeat and conventional Rom-com, this would have been the direction the plot would have taken.

Yeah, ideal solution. That's what I meant.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

-Yukino doesn't have any obvious ambition, she doesn't want show up and she doesn't want be compared to her sister. Even fact that she agreed help were lampshaded as unusual and out of character by Yui and Hikki.

-And of course Hikki would have to agree in first place, which is quite doubtfull in this situation

- Your point is Yukino should just do paperwork and let Sagami fail, did I get it right?

Yet her sister claimed she wasn't surprised at all.

And no, Yukino shouldn't have of let Sagami fail. She should of helped Sagami succeed. Or is that crazy?

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

"Only time"?

Haruno is there to stay for the remainder of the festival. There are many more chances to "win" against Yukino, considering she allowed Hayato to help because the student council president said "Haruno would have accepted help!"

Haruno wasn't present during that scene.

"Only time" up until that point. "First time" if you prefer.

Besides, the scene with Sagami and Haruno is much different to the one about Hayato.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is all Sagami's fault because she wanted Yukino to do all the work.

You might have had a point if you were discussing the student council present (Meguri) or the festival committee as a whole. Then you could say Yukino stripped them of their authority against their will.

Sagami wanted the position for the reputation. Yukino did not precisely because she did not want the reputation of being compared to her sister.

Yeah I guess we just disagree then.

Sagami will have a terrible reputation after this, anyone who knows that Sagami was the chairman will know that she slacked the whole time. And while Yukino may not want the reputation, she wants to be as good as her sister.

The only reason Yukino is "scary" is because most of the time, what she says is right and whenever she is correcting someone on being wrong, it comes off as her being antagonistic unlike Haruno who is flexible enough to cover her criticism with compliments.

You think? I think she's scary because of how she acts.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Yeah I guess we just disagree then.

Sagami will have a terrible reputation after this, anyone who knows that Sagami was the chairman will know that she slacked the whole time. And while Yukino may not want the reputation, she wants to be as good as her sister.

That assumes that Yukino (and Hachiman) will allow the festival to fall apart. The request was to help Sagami make the festival a success, so I doubt things will stay ruined, nor do I believe Sagami will take the fall as much as she deserves it.

You think? I think she's scary because of how she acts.

The only person she throws insults at on a regular basis (and even that stopped now) is Hachiman, and even then you could argue that she was provoked because Hachiman snarks at her just the same.

All the disputes she makes against Yumiko are mostly correct as well. Before she butted in, Yumiko was bullying Yui for not having lunch with them (and not having her way, however you look at it), whether intentional or not. Yumiko was also wrong putting Rumi at fault for her own isolation.

Her criticism has almost always been valid so far. The problem is that not everyone receives criticism well, and she doesn't have Haruno's skill to make it sound any less harsh.

[Windows X]

-Situation between Hikki and Yukino getting awkward. She has her fear and could sense Hikki's distrust clear enough.

-Yukino refused to be president role as being her sister's shadow. That's another one of her landmine loaded and yeah student commitee president should really watch her words.

-While things getting worse, they decided to make strategic retreat for time being. However, she's lost and want to keep her mind busy with something so she accepted the request as she don't want to be left alone being useless person and ended up cursing herself.

-Her sister came up expecting Yukino to be there. It seemed Hachiman noticed how she plotted forcing Yukino to suspend the club and work here. Maybe she really did want to make her little sister stop following her footsteps in hard way by making things worse and make Yukino admitting that she can't be like her.

-The shit got serious and Hayama showed up using his 'Zone' skills to help Yukino. It'd have worked wonderfully for normal people but it's actually disgusting for pessimistic loners like Yukino and Hachiman saying otherworldly stuff without their consent and understandings like that.

-While Hayama's attempt to help Yukino pressuring her instead, Hachiman stood up for Yukino as fellow loner with some slight remarks and terrible jokes to direct damage to himself instead of accusing president. I did this myself few times so yeah it's sure not lovable.

These are my understandings in this episode. I love how both Hayama and Hachiman helping Yukino with different approaches. Both are good methods but not all can be used in the right time and place. If you want to help out loners, don't do it with justice pretense. Hachiman's kind enough knowing how to save loner's soul though he's also a jerk who ran away from reality and caused Yukino's suffering.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

That assumes that Yukino (and Hachiman) will allow the festival to fall apart. The request was to help Sagami make the festival a success, so I doubt things will stay ruined, nor do I believe Sagami will take the fall as much as she deserves it.

Sagami being a slacker should be well known regardless of whether the festival is a success. I suppose she might manage to escape that but...

The only person she throws insults at on a regular basis (and even that stopped now) is Hachiman, and even then you could argue that she was provoked because Hachiman snarks at her just the same.

All the disputes she makes against Yumiko are mostly correct as well. Before she butted in, Yumiko was bullying Yui for not having lunch with them (and not having her way, however you look at it), whether intentional or not. Yumiko was also wrong putting Rumi at fault for her own isolation.

Her criticism has almost always been valid so far. The problem is that not everyone receives criticism well, and she doesn't have Haruno's skill to make it sound any less harsh.

Well if you don't think she's scary then I guess you don't think she's scary.

[Arya]

Liked a lot this episode. Basically Yukinon lost her cool because she wasn't able to explain herself to Hikki. That's because Hikki refused to hear her. So she started acting ooc to the point to accept Sagami's request and actively helping her. Something that contradicts their basic club philosophy of teach a man to fish instead of give him a fish. Her in this case. Looking at her later on made me think that she went back to square one with her personal growth. That's thanks to the actual weird club situation. Namely Hikki.
What I liked the most is that they set up a classical Yukinon situation, in which she naturally outmatches others skill-like and got hated for that. In this case, despite her attitude could seem a tad cold, assertive and bossy, the point is that they have to organize a festival, no matter what, so someone has to make that happens. It's not a personal matter. It's a matter of responsibility, so I 'm totally on Yukinon side
But she has her flaws clarly. She should delegate and relate with others.

Like always instead I can't like her sister Haruno. I can't see her good will in doing what she did. Basically she manipulated Sagami to keep on with her behavior of doing nothing, but thanks to Haruno's support she felt safe to do even worse letting other members to slack off. Just to increase the work on Yukinon shoulders. Looking from my perspective this is like Haruno is trying to sabotage her sister more than anything else.
She said that Yukinon keeps following her steps. What if Haruno's fear is having her sister outmatching her? Maybe that could be the reason she developed her social skills to such an extent. Beside her family role.

I liked even how the blond girl, Hayato and gang helped Yui and forced Sagami to accept the role.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Arya

Liked a lot this episode. Basically Yukinon lost her cool because she wasn't able to explain herself to Hikki. That's because Hikki refused to hear her. So she started acting ooc to the point to accept Sagami's request and actively helping her. Something that contradicts their basic club philosophy of teach a man to fish instead of give him a fish. Her in this case. Looking at her later on made me think that she went back to square one with her personal growth.

The way I saw it, the reason Yukino accepted Sagami's request, instead of using the excuse that they were suspending club activities, is because she wanted to use Sagami as a cat's paw.

Yukino wanted to create an even better festival than Haruno, but she knows that if she became the chairwoman and did that, everyone would compare her to Haruno and she doesn't want that. Her plan seems to be to do the work as vice chairwoman, make a great festival, let Sagami get the glory she wants, and people won't bring up Haruno's name.

Of course, this is bound to fail because Yukino is Yukino and doesn't understand how to work as a second in command.

Like always instead I can't like her sister Haruno. I can't see her good will in doing what she did. Basically she manipulated Sagami to keep on with her behavior of doing nothing, but thanks to Haruno's support she felt safe to do even worse letting other members to slack off. Just to increase the work on Yukinon shoulders. Looking from my perspective this is like Haruno is trying to sabotage her sister more than anything else.

I figure she did that force Yukino into a situation where she would have to ask for help.

She said that Yukinon keeps following her steps. What if Haruno's fear is having her sister outmatching her? Maybe that could be the reason she developed her social skills to such an extent. Beside her family role.

Honestly, as long as Yukino remains the way she is, I doubt she can ever beat Haruno. It's as if two equally skilled people were fighting, but one is armed and the other isn't. Obviously, the armed one wins.