Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Acadia

How much you wanna bet Akira eventually shows video surveillance footage to Shoko of what happened

If anything she may accidentally discover it when Shoko is paying her a visit than Akira trying to cover the screen when she figures out what has happened but it will be too late.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yeah, by essentially buying them off with circuses, as if this student-state hasn't had enough "play time" as it is. As one student stated, every day is like a holiday in the student-state. In the real world, that sort of setup only lasts for so long, and it'll eventually bankrupt you and your country with little productivity to show for it.

As for Shoko's ideas, they are all short-term instant gratification, with no long-term vision at all. You really think those are ideas to build a country around?

As for me, I'd vote for the person that actually cares about practical things like long-term food supply and long-term stability.




Satomi was weak-willed at one time, but he hasn't been that lately. He's steadily shown more spine as the narrative goes on, but unfortunately for him the plot smacks him back down at every turn.

Satomi may not be as charismatic as Shoko, but he's charismatic enough. I have little doubt he could effectively handle media stuff. Most importantly, he would properly handle the actual governance of a country.

YUP! Till Takahi pulls him into a empty room only to speak with him and he expects them to make out LOL!!!

OR

Maybe till Akira tells him he has a sister complex lol

Personally I'd still vote for Shouko...we all have our own opinions...and I think what they need now is someone who can give them hope and motivation...you can do all the governing later (and besides that's what allocating other people certain positions are for)...she might make rash decisions but it's clear that Shouko can turn a hopeless situation around EXAMPLE: Saki piloting the green valvrave for the first time in combat...if you don't call that motivation then the world must be going bonkers lol

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

She didn't buy them off at all,

Sure she did, with her heavy emphasis on greed of all things. She's creating a mindset where the student-state is likely to get even more decadent and unprepared than it already is.

Shoko has been helping everyone out long before this whole thing started thus she was a great connection with the people that she's going to represent. She understands their needs, desires, wants, and dreams.

Sure, I don't dispute that. I'm not saying she's a bad person. But she is highly impulsive, very short-term in her thinking, and I have serious doubts she would have it in her to make hard decisions that would displease a significant number of people. And when you're leading a nation-state, you need to be willing and able to make those types of hard decisions.

She isn't a boring bureaucrat like Satomi, she actually cares about each person individually. It was no contest, she was been their figure head up to this point and things have worked out thus far.

Only by luck, writer's fiat, and L-Elf's strategizing.

They also need someone to represent them in the figure talks with top officials. Shoko actually understands politics and her father was Prime Minister before her so she grew up with politics in her life. Shoko also isn't boring, too logical, or weak willed like Satomi.

Satomi isn't weak, he isn't particularly boring, and how is he "too logical"? Isn't it good to be logical?

If you put Shoko at a table full of experienced Politicians with ARUS she will hold her own while Satomi would fold.

Did Shoko hold her own when the power went out a few episodes back? People were turning on her pretty fast then.

I don't see any reason to think that Satomi would fold any quicker than Shoko would.

Satomi also may not approve of L-Elf having so much free reign which in turn would hurt the Country if he tried to rein in L-Elf and the Valvrave pilots.

I don't think it's going to be completely rosy between L-Elf and Shoko anyway.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

If anything she may accidentally discover it when Shoko is paying her a visit than Akira trying to cover the screen when she figures out what has happened but it will be too late.

LOL!! I was actually thinking about the many ways in which Shouko would find out and that Akira would somehow have a recording of it lol...Was there anyone missing from the election venue besides, Haruto / Saki and of course Akira (since she never leaves her den?

[Destined_Fate]

No she didn't, she's thinking about the future. They're still students and they're going to be at war for the longest time. They cannot give in to despair or think through only numbers like Satomi expressed. Satomi didn't even address the students as people, he merely addressed them as voters and coldly explained his dry plan.

Everyone has personality quirks. Fact of the matter is that the Country exists because of Shoko and has survived so far under her watch as everyone relied upon her up to this point, not Satomi.

It isn't luck, she understands the people she's to lead. L-Elf is right to want her to lead as well as she can control the people and the such by just being herself. She also has backbone and has even gotten her way when it comes to L-Elf.

Yes he is. Satomi bickers behind closed doors and never even talks to the people he wants to represent. Look at his horrified face when Shoko put him in his place and his reaction to losing to Shoko, he was straight panicking and the sad part is that he has no idea WHY he lost in the first place.

That was only a one time thing, in all other situations it has worked perfectly for her and now she has L-Elf to help her. Shoko also, unlike Satomi, has the natural ability to get her way and to always try even when the situation is pointless. Furthermore in that same scene did Satomi fair better? No, he made the situation worse and allowed Takahi to do as she pleased.

Considering the preview it seems to be the case that Shoko will lean on L-Elf more as he slaps her with some realization or steals her heart that's broken by Haruto again.

[~BC~]

Did Shoko hold her own when the power went out a few episodes back? People were turning on her pretty fast then.

I don't see any reason to think that Satomi would fold any quicker than Shoko would.

This is probably the worst example you could bring up. All Satomi did at this point was cower. That's bad enough to make even "jingle bells" seem like a good idea. And this is while he considered himself in charge.

Personally, I think you're giving Satomi credit for things that are likely the result of his 3 underlings. Satomi is good at reading off data others have provided for him and giving orders. When things need to get done he basically goes "get ___". Lights go out- "call the electrician". Dorsia attacks - "Get Haruto."

[Traece]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

This is probably the worst example you could bring up. All Satomi did at this point was cower. That's bad enough to make even "jingle bells" seem like a good idea. And this is while he considered himself in charge.

Personally, I think you're giving Satomi credit for things that are likely the result of his 3 underlings. Satomi is good at reading off data others have provided for him and giving orders. When things need to get done he basically goes "get ___". Lights go out- "call the electrician". Dorsia attacks - "Get Haruto."

Satomi would make a great Minister of the Everything.

I don't know why people think Shoko being Prime Minister necessarily makes her their end-all leader. It's not like she would be ruling everything all by herself without any input or help.

[~BC~]

I don't know why people think Shoko being Prime Minister necessarily makes her their end-all leader. It's not like she would be ruling everything all by herself without any input or help.

That's the reason why Satomi's jealousy is starting to grate. Shoko being prime minister doesn't really have to change what the council has been doing. They just may not get the final say on things.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

That's the reason why Satomi's jealousy is starting to grate. Shoko being prime minister doesn't really have to change what the council has been doing. They just may not get the final say on things.

I agree. She already has L-Elf and I'm sure if Satomi isn't too resentful she would want him on her cabinet too to take care of that stuff.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Traece

Again, they don't have any real government.

Yes, and they need one, badly. Previous episodes have shown just how near complete disaster this student-state is.

There's no need to vote for someone who would enact a sustainability plan

Why not? So what if they get to the moon? Then what? JIOR has been conquered by DORSSIA, hasn't it? So they can't all just go back to JIOR.

(by the way, it's almost certain that his plan was based on how they deal with supplying the students, and not a plan for altering the module or any such thing).

Why is that "almost certain"?

If they want to enact such a plan, they can just do it.

Well geez, you can say that about any political policy. That doesn't mean that the particular person/politician that came up with it doesn't get appropriate credit for it. It was Satomi's idea, and he ran on it, and I really don't see what's so "hilariously bad" about it. Quite the contrary, I think it's very prudent and practical.

As far as Shoko's campaign being run on a one-off event of fun in a world where they only have fun anyhow... It's a press stunt, really.

Not in Shoko's mind, it's not. This is effectively her big idea, not just something to win votes with.

It's not a bad idea, however. School festivals aren't just fun, they're work. If the students really have been lazing and vacationing (which I think is a load of crap, because there's no way they haven't been doing any work this whole time to keep the module up and running while they drift through space, a place it was NEVER MEANT TO BE) it's not a bad idea for them to get off their asses. It makes them look good by being "strong and happy" in the face of war or some silly thing like that, and it keeps them from going nuts, I guess.

With all due respect, Traece, this is quite the stretch.

Frankly, L-Elf had the right idea a few episodes ago, but Shoko shot him down. I really do think we're seeing the beginning of the end here for the student-state, and Shoko's focus on frivolous activities will be part of the reason why. Shoko's big speech was against the backdrop of ominous music, and I think there's a reason for that.

Satomi is weak even now. Have you ever seen him handle rejection well?

It displeases him a bit, but saying he "borderline freaks out" is not at all a fair characterization of it, Traece. I think Satomi handles rejection reasonably well.

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

Which is why when I actually saw that scene play out, I thought "You have to be kidding me."

Yep. As someone who actually follows politics from time-to-time, the scene made me facepalm. Hard.

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

YUP! Till Takahi pulls him into a empty room only to speak with him and he expects them to make out LOL!!!

OR

Maybe till Akira tells him he has a sister complex lol

You guys sure like taking low-blows on Satomi. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shoko wasn't exactly the picture of strength in the immediate aftermath of Haruto not following through with his confession.

Everybody has somebody that they feel vulnerable about. Even L-Elf has that Princess.

Personally I'd still vote for Shouko...we all have our own opinions...and I think what they need now is someone who can give them hope and motivation...

Shoko doesn't have to be a Prime Minister to do that, as she's shown before. A Prime Minister is more than just a cheerleader.

[Destined_Fate]

A Prime Minister needs to know how to delegate, talk to people, and know her place. Shoko knows her place hence why she's happy letting L-Elf do his own thing without complaint as he's good at that while she's good elsewhere. The people also love her and she fights til the bitter end no matter what which is what they need for negotiations.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

No she didn't,

Yes, she did buy them off. And she certainly does not appear to be thinking beyond arriving at the moon. So I don't see much evidence that she's thinking about the future.

They're still students and they're going to be at war for the longest time. They cannot give in to despair or think through only numbers like Satomi expressed.

Good public policy involves thinking through numbers. That's an essential part of governing.

Satomi didn't even address the students as people, he merely addressed them as voters and coldly explained his dry plan.

He was professional about it. That's a bad thing in your opinion?

Everyone has personality quirks. Fact of the matter is that the Country exists because of Shoko and has survived so far under her watch as everyone relied upon her up to this point, not Satomi.

Haruto and L-Elf are the people that deserve the most credit for the student-state still even existing, not Shoko or Satomi.

It isn't luck,

Sure it's luck. She's lucky that they managed to get the power back on. And she's lucky that there's Valvraves saving the student-state's asses over and over again. And she's lucky that L-Elf fell into their laps.

L-Elf is right to want her to lead...

Where did L-Elf say that he wants Shoko to lead? I don't recall him saying any such thing.

Yes he is. Satomi bickers behind closed doors...

So you make allowances for "personality quirks" but not for mere "bickering"? Politics involves debate and disagreement, you know.

and never even talks to the people he wants to represent.

Sure he does. Your criticisms of Satomi are frankly ridiculous and over-the-top.

Originally Posted by Traece

Satomi would make a great Minister of the Everything.

That's basically what a Prime Minister is.

Yes, a Prime Minister delegates, but by being Prime Minister, s/he's able to have the final say on any one area.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

A Prime Minister needs to know how to delegate, talk to people, and know her place.

A Prime Minister needs to know how to govern, and I see little to no evidence of that from Shoko.

Anyway, let's see how this student-state ends up after this episode. It may prove you right. Or it may prove you wrong.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, she did buy them off. And she certainly does not appear to be thinking beyond arriving at the moon. So I don't see much evidence that she's thinking about the future.




Good public policy involves thinking through numbers. That's an essential part of governing.




He was professional about it. That's a bad thing in your opinion?




Haruto and L-Elf are the people that deserve the most credit for the student-state still even existing, not Shoko or Satomi.




Sure it's luck. She's lucky that they managed to get the power back on. And she's lucky that there's Valvraves saving the student-state's asses over and over again. And she's lucky that L-Elf fell into their laps.




Where did L-Elf say that he wants Shoko to lead? I don't recall him saying any such thing.




So you make allowances for "personality quirks" but not for mere "bickering"? Politics involves debate and disagreement, you know.




Sure he does. Your criticisms of Satomi are frankly ridiculous and over-the-top.





That's basically what a Prime Minister is.

Yes, a Prime Minister delegates, but by being Prime Minister, s/he's able to have the final say on any one area.




A Prime Minister needs to know how to govern, and I see little to no evidence of that from Shoko.

Anyway, let's see how this student-state ends up after this episode. It may prove you right. Or it may prove you wrong.

I don't know if you'll understand what I'm talking about BUT...Satomi is rather like Tony Abott (a candidate for Prime Minister of Australia)...Julia Gilard (well, she isn't like Shouko) BUT I would still vote fore Julia Gilard than Tony Abott

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

I don't know if you'll understand what I'm talking about BUT...Satomi is rather like Tony Abott (a candidate for Prime Minister of Australia)...Julia Gilard (well, she isn't like Shouko) BUT I would still vote fore Julia Gilard than Tony Abott

To be clear, I'm not saying that Satomi is fantastic or anything like that. Yes, he has his flaws. But at least his mind is where it ought to be, imo.

Shoko just wants to please and indulge people. That's fine to some degree, but this student-state needs to start taking things a bit more seriously. At some point, the fun and games need to be put in their proper place, and these kids need to start growing up a bit. Throwing celebrations isn't the way to do it, imo.

[DevilHighDxD]

The argument could go on for days, a win is awin, Shoko become PM of New JIOR. So just wait and see how that turn out.

[Irenesharda]

It would be funny if the writers decide to call her the "President" of NeoJIOR next week, just to keep up their inconsistencies.

[Triple_R]

One thing I want to be clear about - I'm not saying that Shoko being elected President was a bad turn for the narrative to take. No, it was probably the only believable one for it to take, really.

And while I may have some issues with the overall execution of it, I could easily see this all leading into a compelling aesop of sorts. But time will tell.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

To be clear, I'm not saying that Satomi is fantastic or anything like that. Yes, he has his flaws. But at least his mind is where it ought to be, imo.

Shoko just wants to please and indulge people. That's fine to some degree, but this student-state needs to start taking things a bit more seriously. At some point, the fun and games need to be put in their proper place, and these kids need to start growing up a bit. Throwing celebrations isn't the way to do it, imo.

Well if they are going to the Moon doesn't that have an existing colony on it? You would think a colony would have a Prime Minister or some form of a governing body...The way I see it, is that it's perfectly fine for Shouko to be Prime Minister, the way she governs now can be a lesson for her to either grow or resign her seat to someone (in your case Satomi) more capable if she doesn't find herself suited for the position in the long run, that's why they have elections...and the people who have voted often make mistakes too (just look at us Australians in terms of Julia Gilard and wanting her to step down from being Prime Minister)...Your getting way to caught up in hating Shouko when you haven't given her the chance to grow in her position as Prime Minister only time will tell whether she is competent enough...and who knows she probably wont be governing anyone or have anyone to govern by the end of this season by what spoilers and everyone else is saying.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Well if they are going to the Moon doesn't that have an existing colony on it? You would think a colony would have a Prime Minister or some form of a governing body...The way I see it, is that it's perfectly fine for Shouko to be Prime Minister, the way she governs now can be a lesson for her to either grow or resign her seat to someone (in your case Satomi) more capable if she doesn't find herself suited for the position in the long run, that's why they have elections...and the people who have voted often make mistakes too (just look at us Australians in terms of Julia Gilard and wanting her to step down from being Prime Minister)...Your getting way to caught up in hating Shouko when you haven't given her the chance to grow in her position as Prime Minister only time will tell whether she is competent enough...and who knows she probably wont be governing anyone or have anyone to govern by the end of this season by what spoilers and everyone else is saying.

LOL just posted this up after reading everyone else's posts...well that'll be it for me and ranting about Shouko as Prime Minister LOL >.>

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Well if they are going to the Moon doesn't that have an existing colony on it? You would think a colony would have a Prime Minister or some form of a governing body...The way I see it, is that it's perfectly fine for Shouko to be Prime Minister, the way she governs now can be a lesson for her to either grow or resign her seat to someone (in your case Satomi) more capable if she doesn't find herself suited for the position in the long run, that's why they have elections...and the people who have voted often make mistakes too (just look at us Australians in terms of Julia Gilard and wanting her to step down from being Prime Minister)...Your getting way to caught up in hating Shouko when you haven't given her the chance to grow in her position as Prime Minister only time will tell whether she is competent enough...and who knows she probably wont be governing anyone or have anyone to govern by the end of this season by what spoilers and everyone else is saying.

I don't hate Shouko, but like I said before, the big speech she gave (and the way it all played out) just made me facepalm. I think she's a good character in general.

Anyway, yeah, let's see how it goes from here.