(L) Noein -- Mou Hitori no Kimi e

[MrProphet]

I think you are confusing the Animation Director and the Episode Director.

Sakuga kantoku is more of a "Animation Supervisor". Literally, "Key Animation Director", the guy/gal in charge of all the key animators who corrects their work up to a common standard.

If you don't like "animation director" for enshutsu, another common term is "technical director", i.e. the chief person who deals with the technical (animation-only) part of an anime production, whereas the Series Organizer and his/her team of scripwriters deal with the creative part of the production.

There is also "Bijutsukantoku" (Art Director), a person who designs the model packs (lists of "correct faces" that key animators must follow) and the art boards (model background art for common locations for BG artists).

[wao]

That's what I said, the sakuga kantoku corrects the faces, and isn't really an animation director, but that's what most people call it since it's a literal translation, so I am not calling "enshutsu" animation director.
I could put technical director but I'd have to put a note explaining anyway and I'm too lazy to change it anyway . Though I'd much rather put technical director than animation director anyway. Enshutsu is also used in live-action (coincidentially for some strange reason in Japanese, directors seem to be called "enshutsuka" rather than "kantoku" when it comes to writing down their job).

However I am fairly sure bijutsukantoku does not have much to do with the faces, it's mostly got to do with the background settings and art style for the background and what not. On some sites the character designer/sakkan is confusingly called the art director for some bizarre and silly reason, but when you say "bijutsu" you're more likely to think of the background art than the animated objects!

The 'correct faces' and what not are usually specificed by the character designer (see those sketches, some detailed ones show which ways of drawing are wrong and which aren't), and the overall sakkan (sou sakuga-kantoku) usually checks the episodes in general to see whether the faces are done OK throughout the series. Sometimes individual sakkan's will send drawings to the overall sakkan to correct if they find it difficult. I've seen this in Zettai Shounen.

Notice how Noein doesn't have an overall sakkan... then again that much is quite obvious, isn't it.

There are rare cases where the animation director actually corrects/modifies the movement rather than just the pictures, for example Gosenzosama Banbanzai (Satoru Utsunomiya). This is also seen in movies. But for TV series it's obviously too time-consuming when the faces are seen as more important and the schedule is much much tighter. Perhaps in Noein the animation director actually corrects the movement (like episode 12, maybe?) sometimes, though.

So what is Takahiro Kishida doing? It's been postulated that Takahiro Kishida's been doing the layout for most of the episodes in general, besides animating here and there. But I haven't come to that bit of the interview yet...

[MrProphet]

Interestingly enough, AIC puts enshutsu as "Director (storyboarder)".

http://www.aicanime.com/introanime/index.html

*2 Storyboard artist= =EnShuTu, EnShuTuKa

http://www.aicanime.com/introanime/process07.html

Which is curious, since the storyboards are usually done by the director (I know Yoshiyuki Tomino, for example, does them himself). But it must be different at different companies. Maybe AIC are using the word enshutsu for "assistant director". Or, perhaps, by "director/storyboarder" they mean the episode director who also does the storyboards for a particular episode.

And the literal translation according to the dictionary is:

enshutsu - 演出 【えんしゅつ】 (n,vs) production (e.g., play); direction; (P)
enshutsuka - 演出家 【えんしゅつか】 (n) producer; director; (P)

[wao]

Yeah, like I said most of the time when you say you work as a director you say you are an enshutsuka, that is how it seems to be in Japanese.

And I think that AIC thing is wrong in terms of names, storyboard is most certainly 絵コンテ and nothing else (I think). Individual episodes have their storyboards but directors would do general storyboards and also should check each episode's storyboards. Sometimes the director's actually done most of the storyboarding work and the "e-konte" credits you see per episode are actually minor things but there's no way of telling from the credits alone.

But I had to laugh at the bottom of the image on that 2nd link - 12 seconds + 12 flames ...

Though if you look at their description for the episode directors and the storyboarder it's something like what I said, the episode director will discuss with the rest of the crew - not just the animation - on how to do what in the episode.

Bah!! Enough of offtopicness already... I still haven't gone very far with the translation of the 2nd interview...

[Splendiferous]

Sorry for not getting to this earlier, but thank you very much for your fine fan translation effort so far Wao!

It's great to get some insight into the people behind the show.

[wao]

I just finished the (shoddy) translation of Round 2 of the interview. Feel free to rip apart as you see fit There is a link from the translation of Round 1, but here's the links anyway
Round 1
Round 2

Can you believe it? THe whole pre-OP battle of episode 1 was pretty much by one guy! (besides, obviously, the composite and in-between and colouring and background art and sound - but he did the rest of it, designs and animation and layout and timing...)

[MrProphet]

Wow. Thanks a lot, wao. It's really interesting to read about the many people who do this show. Seems like there is a lot of dedication and personal input and creativity involved and not just one dictator-director doing everything and deciding everything (ahemmiyazakiahem).

It's amazing how much more input these gengamen can do if they are allowed to do their own thing. Amazing, eg?

[wao]

Even in the Ghibli films (yesahemmiyazakiahem) I believe he still entrusts his senior animators with the job of getting certain scenes right. You do need a helluva lot of guts if you want to go against The Miyazaki, I guess. He does like to keep his films the way he wants - in a way it's probably better for this sort of thing to happen in films otherwise it just feels too broken up.

I dunno, either way has its benefits and problems. You'd have to study auteur theory and all of that, I guess.

Perhaps in Noein it's actually a mix of both - because of the main ideas and energy provided by Akane and Kishida, they have attracted excellent staff. Evidently it must've been good that they could get the show on air in the first place. And as it's been said again and again it's amazing quality for a UHF-station show. I can't imagine that they got a good budget because it's an original work with all these risky aspects, hence it being aired on some obscure station. Yet look at what they do with it! It's love, I tell you. (I'm going bananas. Somebody stop me.)

Allowing gengamen to experiment and try out their own things can breathe a lot of much-needed fresh air into the anime scene. However, beware of putting it into typically "stable" shows like Aquarion and Eureka 7 or you'll have fan(boy/girl)s eating your head off.

Also I don't know if it was mentioend earlier in this thread or in the show but I want to HIT myself for not realising that the Hakodate peninsula is roughly shaped like a tear (Lacrima/Lacryma). Bah.

Now I'm 1/3 through the last round, Round 3.

[MrProphet]

I don't know about Aqaurion... It was kinda wacky and off-the-kilter on it's own. It was definitely a humorous take on the whole super-mecha genre. Perhaps the only people who were distraught by the Utsunomiya episode were the ones who though that Aquarion was a real deal and wasn't poking fun at the cliches. Although, I can't really believe that people would actually think that after the Extend-O-Arm and the Cosplay episodes... 8)

As for Eureka, then definitely. It's much more mainstream (as is most of BONES stuff) and I think that experimental and fringe types of animation don't really have any place there.

I am actually glad that Satelight is providing a niche for people like Norio Matsumoto, Utsunomiya, Toshiyuki Inoue, Shinji Hashimoto... Although, I don't think Norio Matsumoto is desperate for work, after what he did for Naruto. 8)

[Quajafrie]

Great work wao...

I haven't known much about Akane Kazuki so there were some very nice things I learned. The best part of the interview was when he was speaking about the different animators that made different scenes of Noein. The whole team seems to work very well with each other and that's a big +.

[wao]

Toshiyuki Inoue and Shinji Hashimoto... maybe not yet, hopefully soon.

Though I am very disappointed with Satelight's Hellsing Ultimate. That just sucked. So bad.

In the nick of time I have done part 3 but at teh end I had no clue what was going on. Forgive me for I have got school tomorrow and I shouldn't be up! Here's all 3 links

http://dotsql.dyndns.org:8674/basket...nterview01.htm
http://dotsql.dyndns.org:8674/basket...nterview02.htm
http://dotsql.dyndns.org:8674/basket...nterview03.htm

[MrProphet]

Man, I'm glad Akane insisted on Haruka's house being 3DCG. That's in the top 3 of my favourite things about this show: the way they pan around the house so seamlessly and perfectly.

Truly great stuff I've never seen in any made-for-TV animation.

[wao]

Out of curiosity I'd like to ask, what are the other 2 things you like the most about this show?

Personally more than the house I like the bit where the camera swerves around the church and you see Karasu there. I love that sequence for some reason; I was quite impressed by it the first time I saw it.

I'm really wondering what's going to happen to Atori. The good thing about this show is you can read the official spoilers and they seem like they spoil a lot but there's a heck of a lot more behind it! They don't say anything about Atori.

I don't mind seeing whacko!Atori back... but I do wish we get an episode about how everyone made the transition from Nice Happy Hakodate to Fux0red Up Lacrima.

EDIT: Bah, forums going slow earlier... they work fine for me now, well adding on to last time's pictures of the character sketches, here's something more interesting: the pre-production storyboards (to get a feeling of the characters and possible scenarios and so on). http://www.style.fm/as/02_topics/top_060220.shtml
Kuina has LONG HAIR in there!! He looks quite cool . Pity we've never seen Ai tie up her hair. I do wish they'd have ... "left" Miho's hair as not-pink (since I think the colours there were not really the intended ones).

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by wao

Out of curiosity I'd like to ask, what are the other 2 things you like the most about this show?

That would be the sound effects, and the use of science as a plot device.

Those two, together with very smooth 3DCG, are the things that attracted me to Noein and keep me watching.

Of course, I love the characters, action and the plot as well, but if I had to list my three favourite things, then they would be those.

As for episode 19, it was rather meh. Mostly a lot of talking going on, although 20 should finally be the one where everything starts going towards the climax, as

Spoiler:

Kuina finally decides to go to the present time in force and numbers.

Also, it would be interesting to see where Shinohara's actions will lead. So far I am somewhat lost as to how the Magic Circle Project ties into the whole scheme of things. That device Shinohara is designing is what? The time/dimension-travelling thing that the Dragoons are using? Who knows...

[wao]

Damn forum downtime.

I have to totally agree with you about the sound effects. In the Other interview which I still haven't translated (the one not on style.fm), Kazuki Akane mentioned how much effort the sound effects people are putting into this show. He mentioned it in the translated interview as well anyway. I am really truly amazed at the sound in this show - I don't know anything about the technicalities or details of sound mixing and recording and so on, but whatever it is it sounds AWESOME. It beats out many other shows there! I love the detail - for example when one of the Dragon Cavaliers step around there's that "bwang" sound, and when someone gets stabbed or blood gushes or something it sounds so detailed and lush you can almost feel it happening. (To me, anyway.) When cars go past or doors close it sounds like it happened there and not like they stuck on a recording (for an example of that, watch Zettai Shounen), and of course you have to totally commend the sound director for getting so much out of the cast. Even if they're largely very good seiyuu in their own right they seem to shine even more in here.
Chiba Saeko is one example - she usually sounds like a typical moecharacter or something like that in a lot of other anime, but I was personally very amazed at her performance in Noein. She sounded very genuine and convincing. I remember smiling when in ep 12 she was calling Yuu to get him to help find Karasu, she said she'd kick him if he didn't come or something like that...
And of course it's amazing how a newbie like Haruka Kudou can do some scenes so convincingly. I believe the director elaborated on this in those interviews. She sounds a lot better than from Honey and Clover (though that might be also because Haruka's a more convincing and easy character to portray than Hagumi, but that's just me I guess).

As for ep 19 it is true not much happened except at the end, though IMO it was better than ep 18. So let's just see what'll happen... next ep is a Kawamori ep, although he's using a pseudonym.

[Quajafrie]

I watched episodes 15 and 16 together when the forum was down... I was mesmerized. For me they were the best episodes of the whole series. Well, there were things I didn't really understand in ep16:

Spoiler:

1) I don't think that just because Noein was standing in Karasu's place, it means that Noein = Karasu = Yuu. Of course, there are other things that lead to this direction, but I don't think that scene wanted to show this thing.
2) What exactly happened to Haruka? She remembered that she had met Karasu before... And what does that mean? I was rather confused on that part.

But... the scene with Noein going in Karasu's place was so good I couldn't believe it. I had seen the first episode more than 3 times (I also translated it in Greek) so I knew every little bit of it, and it was so $#$#% suprising and outstanding.

Anyway, I hope the climax of the series won't be a disappointment.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

I watched episodes 15 and 16 together when the forum was down... I was mesmerized. For me they were the best episodes of the whole series. Well, there were things I didn't really understand in ep16:

Spoiler:

1) I don't think that just because Noein was standing in Karasu's place, it means that Noein = Karasu = Yuu. Of course, there are other things that lead to this direction, but I don't think that scene wanted to show this thing.

Funny, because I though it was exactly the thing they were trying to show. It wasn't really such a revelation, since it was rather obvious even before, but I felt like they solidified the case for Noein being who he is.

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

Spoiler:

2) What exactly happened to Haruka? She remembered that she had met Karasu before... And what does that mean? I was rather confused on that part.

Here's what happened.

Spoiler:

1) When Haruka left Shangri-La, Noein started messing with her mind. He lead her to relive her own past, but tweaked it slightly, thus putting Haruka in the dimensions where things went down differently. The chief of those things was that Karasu died during the attack on Lacrima and thus never came to the Present World. Instead of him, Noein came, wishing to take Karasu's place and take Haruka to Shangri-La.

2) Haruka almost believed it, thinking that Noein's appearance in the graveyard was an original event.

3) However, at the last second he remembered that she has already experienced all of this (note, that experience of something is the key event in quantum mechanics, it makes something "real" as opposed to "probable"), and that Noein is switching himself for Karasu.

4) Thus, Haruka broke free from the enchantment and realized that this world is not her own, but rather another dimension constructed by Noein to fool her into coming with him. The memory of Karasu helped her remember the real sequence of events.

Going back to episode 19, I thought there was an interesting part that ties into this discussion of Episodes 15-16.

Spoiler:

Episode 19 maily dealt with memory once again. I think it was superbly contrasted how Haruka forgot her grandmother and Ayu forgot Haruka in return. I was really interested whether that was a symbolic device on Kazuki Akane's part, or whether it was a sign that Haruka was once again in the wrong dimension, the one where Ayu never knew her.

But Ayu's mother recognized "Doctor Mayuzumi's daughter", so it must have been merely symbolic, rather than a part of the plot.

Although, it's an interesting concept. What would happen if Haruka switched dimensions, but the one she came into was different in very small details that Haruka would not notice. Would those two dimensions be in fact the same? Haruka is the one percieving them, unless she encounters something that is different (like Ayu not knowing who she is), how can she tell if it's her own world?

Could it be that this is the way Noein is combining the dimensions? By switching events so that the outcomes are the same, making the dimensions practically similar?

It sounds very philosophical. In fact, a lot more philosophical that scientific. But then again, quantum mechanics is in part philosophical (and in other parts mathematical).

[Quajafrie]

Spoiler:

3) However, at the last second he remembered that she has already experienced all of this (note, that experience of something is the key event in quantum mechanics, it makes something "real" as opposed to "probable"), and that Noein is switching himself for Karasu.

Spoiler:

Hm... that sounds unconvincing to me. How can she not remember what happened and remember that Karasu came instead of Noein the last second? That day changed her life... (or I don't understand something)

Grr... I'm enraged. I was talking with somebody and asked him about Noein and he said "Oh, nothing special. Just a 'kids with super powers' show. I'm bored of it." What the heck? I'm watching a different anime? He also said "the battles are very scrappy... it's like they took a manga and moved it. You can see this style on 70's Marvel Comics"... I can't understand some people. Am I the only one who finds Noein nearly flawless?

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

Spoiler:

Hm... that sounds unconvincing to me. How can she not remember what happened and remember that Karasu came instead of Noein the last second? That day changed her life... (or I don't understand something)

Have you ever slept and had a dream so realistic that you couldn't figure out for some time that you were dreaming and it's not real? (I know I have, many times, in fact)

Take that, make it impossibly real, make it physical, make it less of a fantasy and more of a normal world.

I bet you anything that you will not know that it's an illusion untill it hits you that you have already lived and experienced it. And it will not hit you unless something really important is changed.

It's absolutely convincing to me.

[wao]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Spoiler:

Episode 19 maily dealt with memory once again. I think it was superbly contrasted how Haruka forgot her grandmother and Ayu forgot Haruka in return. I was really interested whether that was a symbolic device on Kazuki Akane's part, or whether it was a sign that Haruka was once again in the wrong dimension, the one where Ayu never knew her.

But Ayu's mother recognized "Doctor Mayuzumi's daughter", so it must have been merely symbolic, rather than a part of the plot.

Although, it's an interesting concept. What would happen if Haruka switched dimensions, but the one she came into was different in very small details that Haruka would not notice. Would those two dimensions be in fact the same? Haruka is the one percieving them, unless she encounters something that is different (like Ayu not knowing who she is), how can she tell if it's her own world?

Could it be that this is the way Noein is combining the dimensions? By switching events so that the outcomes are the same, making the dimensions practically similar?

It sounds very philosophical. In fact, a lot more philosophical that scientific. But then again, quantum mechanics is in part philosophical (and in other parts mathematical).

The forgetting-friends thing definitely linked up with the beginning of episode 18. But I have actually forgotten people from before while my mother still remembers them. When I was young I wasn't very aware of who I remembered and all - and those people can remember me but I simply can't.

Spoiler:

Haruka remembers Aya probably because she felt much more strongly during that scene where they parted, more than Aya. Aya's mother probably remembers Haruka, perhaps because she likes Haruka or she remembers Dr. Mayuzumi in particular.

You know what it reminds me of? RahXephon... where nobody in the classroom could remember Reika Mishima. It's kind of creepy.

As for Haruka not knowing if she's changed worlds, I guess it makes no difference to her if she hasn't experienced it before. Only if she's experienced it before and can remember it, can she then know that what is being presented to her is fake. But if she can't remember it...
It's possible that from a certain point she had moved to a dimension where Aya did not know Haruka. Who knows...

Also in ep 19, when Kooriyama and Uchida were walking down the hill and that cable car moved past, is it me or did it still look like it had those damage marks from episode 3? Surely it was fixed by Tobi and co.
Actually if they can do this "time-fixing" why didn't they do it for, say, Fukurou and Karasu's fight or Isuka's death or something? Perhaps the difference is too great?? Sometimes this whole multiple-universe thing seems like an extremely smart idea to patch up plot holes :P Either that or I'm just not understanding it properly.

And Quajafrie, if your friend says all the battles in this anime are like animated manga I suggest giving him an evil look. If he says that and he likes shows with generally much crappier fighting animation like Bleach, I wouldn't say no to giving him a bit of a punch .