Atlus: discussion, speculation and whatnot

[MeoTwister5]

Well if I owned a Vita I'd buy Golden for the same reason I got FES and P3P.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

But isn't it possible that those who had Persona 4 OG, might not be compelled to get the same game twice- even with the added features?

I know I didn't, and won't. I'm not gonna pour more time into that game after completed it 4 times. My friends didn't bother until there was a discount on PSN either.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The same argument could be made in terms of franchises.

The SMT franchise is even more niche than Atlus games generally are. For their console predecessors, SMT Nocturne is still sitting at around just 200-300k while Persona 4 is at 800k+.

You could say that since Persona has a fanbase at least twice as large as the main SMT fanbase, P4G should outsell SMT4 by a large margin, but it didn't. You probably are right that the Vita is still a viable platform to develop on compared to the WiiU, but it's still far from having the same odds as the 3DS, for niche games or not.

I didn't know that people expected that remakes will sell as well as the original game.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Hey, just refuting your statement that third party games don't sell well on the 3DS.
And of course the statement that Atlus's best selling game on the 3DS/Vita is Persona 4 Golden.

Wait one second. I know that it's a bit beyond my point, but are we talking about Japanese sales or worldwide sales here? I'm pretty certain that the original Persona 4 didn't sell 800,000 copies in Japan.

And how about digital sales? I'm pretty sure that Nintendo doesn't sell as much digitally given how they don't really get this "internet" thing. If we're going to nitpick numbers, we should at least be working with, well, good numbers.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

But isn't it possible that those who had Persona 4 OG, might not be compelled to get the same game twice- even with the added features?

There are a lot of gamers, particularly in North America, who aren't interested in handheld consoles.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Wait one second. I know that it's a bit beyond my point, but are we talking about Japanese sales or worldwide sales here? I'm pretty certain that the original Persona 4 didn't sell 800,000 copies in Japan.

And how about digital sales? I'm pretty sure that Nintendo doesn't sell as much digitally given how they don't really get this "internet" thing. If we're going to nitpick numbers, we should at least be working with, well, good numbers.

I'm probably using the JP sales. And comparing with Persona 4 Golden (Vita), not Persona 4 (PS2). As far as sales elsewhere, I don't have any data. Unlike Japan, there aren't sites that keep track of weekly sales or anything, unfortunate as it is. The only thing I see is the monthly NPG (or something like that).

Don't know. I'm only talking about cold hard numbers, listed on sites. No announcement on Megami Tensei IV's digital sales (which would be Atlus's job to announce?) and don't know any site that keeps track of digital sales for Persona 4 Golden (as if it was possible to keep track)

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

I know I didn't, and won't. I'm not gonna pour more time into that game after completed it 4 times. My friends didn't bother until there was a discount on PSN either.

You're missing out man. The Golden adds a lot to the game. There are new Social Links and there's a lot more time to do them as well luckly. A lot of small additions to the combat mechanics add up to a game that's a lot less repetitive and the new scenes added to the story are pure gold at points. (the roadtrips are pure gold. Gold I tells ya! * )

*pun 100% intended

[Angelic Cross]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I didn't know that people expected that remakes will sell as well as the original game.

When it has an anime adaptation that just finished and a compilation movie that came out near its release that pretty much acts as advertising for it and the fact that its franchise has a larger than the original mainline, then yes, I expected it to at least come close to the original sales. I can accept a remake's poor sales is if didn't have the same type of exposure.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Angelic Cross

When it has an anime adaptation that just finished and a compilation movie that came out near its release that pretty much acts as advertising for it and the fact that its franchise has a larger than the original mainline, then yes, I expected it to at least come close to the original sales. I can accept a remake's poor sales is if didn't have the same type of exposure.

I thought that we just determined that there are no good numbers on the sales of P4 Golden. Do you have some real numbers to work with or have you heard Atlus say that the sales were poor or disappointing?

[Angelic Cross]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I thought that we just determined that there are no good numbers on the sales of P4 Golden. Do you have some real numbers to work with or have you heard Atlus say that the sales were poor or disappointing?

You mean this statement: "I can accept a remake's poor sales is if didn't have the same type of exposure. "? This is my opinion on remakes in general. Fine, if you're too obtuse to get what I was saying then I'll restate it, since I thought my meaning should have been obvious with "then yes, I expected it to at least come close to the original sales."

Persona 4 Golden not doing close to the same numbers as its original cannot be excused by it being a remake as you implied with your statement of "I didn't know that people expected that remakes will sell as well as the original game." due to it having an animated series and compilation movie close to its release and it having a larger fanbase than the mainline SMT series.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Angelic Cross

You mean this statement: "I can accept a remake's poor sales is if didn't have the same type of exposure. "? This is my opinion on remakes in general. Fine, if you're too obtuse to get what I was saying then I'll restate it, since I thought my meaning should have been obvious with "then yes, I expected it to at least come close to the original sales."

I think that this is a ridiculous assertion given that most of the target audience already had the original game. Do you actually expect that everyone is going to buy the more-or-less same game twice? Heck, how many remakes have ever sold as well as the original? How much do they normally sell?

Moreover, advertising and promotion do two major things: make the audience aware that the game exists and to convince them that it is good. Chances are that Persona 4 owners already know both of these, so why would it pull in an already saturated audience?

On top of all that, why do you say that Golden had poor sales to begin with? What are the numbers you're working from?

[Angelic Cross]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think that this is a ridiculous assertion given that most of the target audience already had the original game. Do you actually expect that everyone is going to buy the more-or-less same game twice? Heck, how many remakes have ever sold as well as the original? How much do they normally sell?

Moreover, advertising and promotion do two major things: make the audience aware that the game exists and to convince them that it is good. Chances are that Persona 4 owners already know both of these, so why would it pull in an already saturated audience?

On top of all that, why do you say that Golden had poor sales to begin with? What are the numbers you're working from?

No, I expect that the anime would have pulled in enough new people to make up some of the difference for those who didn't rebuy it.

And FFS, I was using that as a blanket statement to cover remakes in general, not Golden in particular.

[SidVicious]

Atlus opens November 24 teaser site

Available at p-ch.jp, the site sports a bright red background, the date November 24, time 20:00, and a host of cities including Tokyo, Osaka, and Nagoya, Fukuoka, Sendai, and Sappooro.

Three empty boxes can been seen at the top of the page. And at the bottom, next to the Atlus logo, the P-Studio logo, for Atlus’ Persona team.

News of the teaser site’s launch comes from the official Persona Twitter account.

Source: http://gematsu.com/2013/09/atlus-ope...24-teaser-site

[Nerroth]

That is the day after the Persona 3 movie premieres, and those are six of the cities in which it will have a theatrical release.

Perhaps they are planning on showing a trailer for... whatever this site is for after the end credits roll?

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Nerroth

That is the day after the Persona 3 movie premieres, and those are six of the cities in which it will have a theatrical release.

Perhaps they are planning on showing a trailer for... whatever this site is for after the end credits roll?

Well, they did register the domain name for Persona 5 recently... Just throwing that out there

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Well, they did register the domain name for Persona 5 recently... Just throwing that out there

Just throwing that out there eh ?

Would be nice if this did finally lead to the bomb getting dropped for P5. Next consoles are about to come out, I think it's a good time to let everyone know what's coming.

But who knows. With things potentially stabilizing with the Sega situation it'd be a good time to announce stuff they've been holding back.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Angelic Cross

Uh, what? SMT x FE was announced January 2013. We already had headlines of Wii U doing bad by then; that was around when Nintendo lowered their sales forecast due to bad sales.

Doesn't really change his point that the game was pretty much agreed on before the Wii U turned out to be a failure.

Originally Posted by Solace

Is Nintendo running around money hatting every developer? Clearly not. Nintendo has good relations with most developers, but it's still business. Nintendo isn't going to pay for every developer out there to make games for its system, and if the system isn't doing well not every developer will make games for it.

A lot of companies in Japan don't want to work for Nintendo period after the way they conducted business in the past. Why do you think nearly every develop jumped onto Sony's PSX bandwagon, the majority without moneyhats.

You only have to look @ how 3rd party games where plentiful on PSP compared to DS after MH made PSP a legit competior to the DS. You only have to look @ the Wii compared to the PS3. Heck even a Monster Hunter less Vita is still getting more 3rd party games than the Wii U.... and Wii >>> Pre Monster Hunter PSP.

It's quite clear a lot of companies couldn't give a shit about nintendo.

And no one is really buying home consoles in Japan anymore. It's a mobile/handheld market now. Heck, the 3DS had already surpassed the lifetime sales of the PS3 last year, and the 3DS has been under performing compared to the DS since launch. The third party situation for the PS4 will be better than the Wii U, but that's not saying much. Home consoles are almost entirely supported by western software companies now, which should be obvious given how Sony and Microsoft are approaching their launches and the massive decline in Japanese software across the board since the PS2. Trying to keep up with Western AAA budgets has not been a good thing for Japanese devs, or the industry as a whole.

PS4 will still get all the mid tier titles that were selling well on PS2 and did the same on PS3. The Yakuza's, the Musou games, Winning Eleven etc in addition to the Metal Gear, Resident Evils and Final Fantasys.

Wii U wishes it could get a fourth of that.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Σ(;´Д｀)
http://abload.de/img/3ds_vita_mh34tmef2.png

Cute, I'm sure Grand Theft Auto 6 on ps4/xbone will outsell the entire Wii U library when it comes out, will you be posting that pic than?

Doesn't change that Vita 3rd party games are selling better than Wii U ones (God Eater 2 alone will probably outsell every 3rd party Wii U game), doesn't change that more 3rd party games are on Vita than Wii U. Doesn't change that a lot of mid tier games are dual releases on PS3/VITA while ignoring Wii U like usual.

[Mars Mode]

Wasnt it the lifetime sales of the Wii the ones the 3DS surpassed just recently???

[Benoit]

Even if Atlus wasn't bought by Sega, you'd still have to worry about localisations, because Atlus hasn't exactly been good about some of them either: the Langrissers, Growlanser I, V and VI (II and III aren't on PSN because Atlus refuses to license them), Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (PSP), the two first Shin Megami Tenseis, the Yggdra spin-offs,...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Just throwing that out there eh ?

Would be nice if this did finally lead to the bomb getting dropped for P5. Next consoles are about to come out, I think it's a good time to let everyone know what's coming.

But who knows. With things potentially stabilizing with the Sega situation it'd be a good time to announce stuff they've been holding back.

Atlus has been talking about Persona 5 for a very long time, they just haven't officially announced it yet. The most likely destination for the game is the PS3 (based on the preliminary work on Catherine); possibly on a few other additional consoles. It's most likely that it won't show up on the PS4 seeing how Persona 4 was released two years after the PS3 came out.

Originally Posted by Angelic Cross

No, I expect that the anime would have pulled in enough new people to make up some of the difference for those who didn't rebuy it.

And FFS, I was using that as a blanket statement to cover remakes in general, not Golden in particular.

You might want to check out how well games historically do compared to their remake counterparts.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Cute, I'm sure Grand Theft Auto 6 on ps4/xbone will outsell the entire Wii U library when it comes out, will you be posting that pic than?

Doesn't change that Vita 3rd party games are selling better than Wii U ones (God Eater 2 alone will probably outsell every 3rd party Wii U game), doesn't change that more 3rd party games are on Vita than Wii U. Doesn't change that a lot of mid tier games are dual releases on PS3/VITA while ignoring Wii U like usual.

Don't know why you are suddenly going "Bu-but the WiiU!" but I was comparing 3DS and Vita because the two are handhelds.
As the original comment goes, the poster stated PS3, Vita, and 3DS. Well, the Wii has passed away and the WiiU isn't doing good right now and the XBOX360 is obsolete in Japan, so PS3 would be a good decision for a home console. But since there were two handhelds, I compared them.
Yes, I know that you can only use the WiiU since the 3DS is murdering everything, but you know...

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Atlus has been talking about Persona 5 for a very long time, they just haven't officially announced it yet. The most likely destination for the game is the PS3 (based on the preliminary work on Catherine); possibly on a few other additional consoles. It's most likely that it won't show up on the PS4 seeing how Persona 4 was released two years after the PS3 came out.

Well that's a given and pretty much what I meant. New systems coming, so now we're more in the P4 window and when it came out.

P5 has been in this ghost existence in which we know they are working on it, but know next to nothing about it. Except that there will likely be personas in it . Just seems like they should be close to the point of being able to drop the bomb.