Attack on Titan - Episode 25 (END) Discussion / Poll

[raion]

The real enemy

Spoiler for Something about episode 25:

My theory on who the enemy is , although I saw something about the same topic, I didn't want to continue 'cause it had a lot of spoilers. (based on episode 25, no hate please)

I think that the enemy are the worshipers of the walls.
I got the idea from the story of the digger and the last part of the episode.

Basically, the worshipers of the wall are not that important, what they tell people is that the walls should not be modified or maim with. Their presence is not significant in the anime, however, because of episode 25, it lead me to think that the enemy are them. The story of the digger is very intriguing, first of all why did the digger vanished? After the credits, a titan was seen inside the wall, remember that the digger disappeared because he was maiming with the wall. I think that the worshipers of the wall were involved with the disappearance if the digger. Lets face it, based on the anime, their presence isn't that necessary yet there still there.
Based on that, I think that the enemy are the worshipers, they didn't want anyone to modify the wall to prevent someone from seeing the titans inside the wall. I know that this is a very small minded explanation but I just want to know if someone is thinking the same.
PS: Haven't read the manga, but planning in the future.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^ Not really, their problem is that they read the manga and couldn't handle how different from the anime approach it was, not because it was over-the-top (edit : though the over-the-top-ness in itself is one of those different approaches, I'll give you that).

I completely agree with this. If this was the other way around we'd have a lot people complaining about the changes done in the manga distort the anime.

However I've to admit that there are many valid points there but they are not that important. After reading some comments it feels like the changes completely a utterly destroyed the series. xD

By the way, probably all those comparisons with the manga should go in spoiler tags; I don't mind them, but there might be someone who does.

Originally Posted by raion

The real enemy

Spoiler for Something about episode 25:

My theory on who the enemy is , although I saw something about the same topic, I didn't want to continue 'cause it had a lot of spoilers. (based on episode 25, no hate please)

I think that the enemy are the worshipers of the walls.
I got the idea from the story of the digger and the last part of the episode.

Basically, the worshipers of the wall are not that important, what they tell people is that the walls should not be modified or maim with. Their presence is not significant in the anime, however, because of episode 25, it lead me to think that the enemy are them. The story of the digger is very intriguing, first of all why did the digger vanished? After the credits, a titan was seen inside the wall, remember that the digger disappeared because he was maiming with the wall. I think that the worshipers of the wall were involved with the disappearance if the digger. Lets face it, based on the anime, their presence isn't that necessary yet there still there.
Based on that, I think that the enemy are the worshipers, they didn't want anyone to modify the wall to prevent someone from seeing the titans inside the wall. I know that this is a very small minded explanation but I just want to know if someone is thinking the same.
PS: Haven't read the manga, but planning in the future.

Spoiler for About the walls:

I really like that we are finally going to see (someday xD) whats the matter with the walls. It's never explained how the managed to build such tall walls in the mids of a titan invasion in record time. It's always bugged me that the titan invasion was just 100 years ago. Yet all people seem to have lived inside the walls for a much longer time.

[Haak]

I thought it was was a thrilling finale but incredibly unsatisfying considering how much more there must be to the story but all i can see from the comments is how much it's different from the manga so I decided to check the manga version out: In all honesty, I prefer the anime version better for three main reasons:
1) Anime Eren puts up a better fight: Let's face it, Manga Eren gets his arse handed to him. For someone like me who's been eagerly anticipating a rematch, that would have been incredibly disappointing.
2) I don't think I could have reconciled a calmer Eren smashing Annie into a building full of people. If the show is to make a big deal about Erwin knowingly accepting the price of collateral damage, then it ought to at least make Eren acknowledge that as well since it was mostly his fault. Neither the anime nor the manga actually addresses this but at least in the anime it's easier to take if Eren is berserk again.
3) I think his hesitation in killing Annie and subsequent talk with Mikasa about what it's like to be Titan added some much needed depth to his character. I think it's highly interesting to know what being a Titan is like and how it can affect you so I think that was an interesting dimension added to his character.


I do however think the reveal that Titans are in the wall definitely had more impact in the manga.

[Snow White]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Isn't the manga progressing at like one chapter a month? That means one volume every half year or so. The anime finished volume 8 from what I can gather, the and manga is at volume 11, meaning that it'll be another 2.5 years or so before there is enough material (i.e. vol. 16) for S2. This is gonna suck.

Unless they decide to make the second season only one cour (12-13 episodes), in which we already have enough material to be adapted.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by ArmisaelXVIII

I completely agree with this. If this was the other way around we'd have a lot people complaining about the changes done in the manga distort the anime.

Hmm, when I read this post I suddenly realized that I formulated that sentence wrong. It should have been.

their problem is that they read the manga and couldn't handle how different from it (the manga) the anime approach was

My first post make it sound like the problem is the manga.

[chi4ko]

WHY SO SOON?! So many questions remained unanswered and no second season in sight so far!

So the stupid question time! I'm not sure if it was discussed before, but bear with me.
Why did Erwin's plan involve arresting Annie in the city if so many lives could be (and were) lost? He basically decided to genocide the entire town! Wouldn't it be a better choice to capture her in her sleep/involve her higher-ups to send her to a less populated area on an errand and then capture her? So does the whole deal make Erwin a really ruthless man? Or was it his intention to once more present Eren as the saviour to the masses?

[Winterson]

Spoiler for Nothing much of a spoiler but a superficial reaction:

No!!!! The titan season is o-over! T,,,T

No more abberants running like gays. No more ugly dwarf and abnormal titans to make fun of. There won't be anymore of Levi's sensuous killer eyes! No more giant abs and Annie's titan bulges to chew over. No more spattering of gunfire and spluttering of blood. Won't be any suspense and jam-packed actions served every week. No more Armin's seemingly logical conjectures, and of couse no more Shina, Rose and Maria--who effin' cares about the walls anyways? Nosy people get killed! No more horses and survey corps--hell, I care more for the scouting legion than the lame military police. No more titans, humongous chimp and titan shifters. Most importantly, no more 3D MANEUVER GEAR!! No more flying and rotating and smashing and slicing and dicing and KILLING!!! What is living if there's no titan killing?!

Well, I can watch it again if I want to. Anyways, the last episode was good, but if only they didn't omit and change the scenes in the manga, it would have been far better than this. That titan
inside the wall should've looked at Mikasa who was on the surface of the wall.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by chi4ko

So the stupid question time! I'm not sure if it was discussed before, but bear with me.
Why did Erwin's plan involve arresting Annie in the city if so many lives could be (and were) lost? He basically decided to genocide the entire town! Wouldn't it be a better choice to capture her in her sleep/involve her higher-ups to send her to a less populated area on an errand and then capture her? So does the whole deal make Erwin a really ruthless man? Or was it his intention to once more present Eren as the saviour to the masses?

I you really want to achieve something great, you need to make sacrifices.
What are you ready to sacrifice in order to capture the female titan, chi4ko?

[ScudFace]

I believe the anime format demanded the changes that were made to the story. This is the final episode of the season which meant the accumulated trials, tragedies, emotions which have been built up over the season must have at least some sort of catharsis. Eren having his ass handed to him as per the manga would have failed to give this season a satisfying end from a story telling POV.
BTW, did anyone else get some serious evangelion vibes from the way eren entered berserker mode? That and erwin doing a commander ikari impersonation on the bridge.

[kitten320]

Erwin clearly did bad job there. Eren alone killed more than Annie in just one episode.

And he was not even in berserk mode yet. Eren went Berserk after Annie smashed his face in and went for the wall. Until then Eren was fully sane and simply ended up destroying everything in his way. It is especially noticeable right after the scene with church.

Annie rushed to an open area, sees people and changes the course and just keeps running to another open area.
Then comes Eren and randomly destroys a tower that wasn't even in his way.

He throws Annie on the buildings and smashes through them without a care.

Annie on the other hand switched Eren off in one hit and destroyed only part of one building.
Second building she destroyed is in open area when she had to finally stop and turn around to face Eren. She used it as momentum for a stop.

Annie literally destroyed only 2 buildings in whole episode and in both cases it was a needed action.
a) To stop and face Eren before he snaps her neck from behind
b) To effectively stop Eren from moving in near future which she did succeed in manga. Eren never caught up with her.


I'm sorry, but Eren came far more as an ass in this episode than Annie. Doesn't help that he never actually seemed to regret any of that.
And he is an MC!

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Erwin clearly did bad job there. Eren alone killed more than Annie in just one episode.

And he was not even in berserk mode yet. Eren went Berserk after Annie smashed his face in and went for the wall. Until then Eren was fully sane and simply ended up destroying everything in his way. It is especially noticeable right after the scene with church.

Annie rushed to an open area, sees people and changes the course and just keeps running to another open area.
Then comes Eren and randomly destroys a tower that wasn't even in his way.

He throws Annie on the buildings and smashes through them without a care.

Annie on the other hand switched Eren off in one hit and destroyed only part of one building.
Second building she destroyed is in open area when she had to finally stop and turn around to face Eren. She used it as momentum for a stop.

Annie literally destroyed only 2 buildings in whole episode and in both cases it was a needed action.
a) To stop and face Eren before he snaps her neck from behind
b) To effectively stop Eren from moving in near future which she did succeed in manga. Eren never caught up with her.


I'm sorry, but Eren came far more as an ass in this episode than Annie. Doesn't help that he never actually seemed to regret any of that.
And he is an MC!

You just opened Pandora's Box XD This should be fun

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by chi4ko

WHY SO SOON?! So many questions remained unanswered and no second season in sight so far!

So the stupid question time! I'm not sure if it was discussed before, but bear with me.
Why did Erwin's plan involve arresting Annie in the city if so many lives could be (and were) lost? He basically decided to genocide the entire town! Wouldn't it be a better choice to capture her in her sleep/involve her higher-ups to send her to a less populated area on an errand and then capture her? So does the whole deal make Erwin a really ruthless man? Or was it his intention to once more present Eren as the saviour to the masses?

To take her from the MP barracks would involve telling the MPs about it beforehand, and he can't trust them.

Plus, having the titan fight in the middle of the city is a wakeup call for people - including powerful people - who felt a bit too safe.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

To take her from the MP barracks would involve telling the MPs about it beforehand, and he can't trust them.

Plus, having the titan fight in the middle of the city is a wakeup call for people - including powerful people - who felt a bit too safe.

That's probably one of the reasons, or even the main reason. The recon corps were about to be dismantled (or at least Erwin was about to be dismissed) basically because going out the walls is dangerous and we are doing fine inside, why bother going out and doing dangerous stuff. It really feels like this whole operation was also a wakeup call for the top brass. No one wants a rampaging titan in his city.

Originally Posted by Chomiq

hmm i'm not manga reader but i checked and ok... it is in the ending.

Spoiler for manga:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

So Mikasa saw him first? How will they change it now, who will notice him first i wonder.

Spoiler for Manga/Anime changes:

They can still pull off something like a flashback from the point view of Eren, he sees everything but then goes unconscious and won't recall anything for a while.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Eragon

You just opened Pandora's Box XD This should be fun

I regret nothing because Eren is responsible for all of the destructions.

I would take it easy if it was not for this:


I mean really, WTF?

Actually wait... he is not destroying a tower, he actually smashes through the building! That's even worse x_x

Anime team did horrible job with Eren's character.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Eragon

You just opened Pandora's Box XD This should be fun

And I'll take the bait, like a fish man.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Erwin clearly did bad job there. Eren alone killed more than Annie in just one episode.

No, I disagree with that. Had one prioritized the safety of the civilians over capturing the Female Titan, she would have escaped by now.
Erwin knew well a fight between Eren and Annie would have caused heavy collateral damage. He knew well Eren might cause more victim than Annie if he were to go berserk. But why would he care?

What was on the line?
The survival of humanity.

What were the sacrifices made? What did they lose in exchange of achieving that goal?
The lives of a few hundred civilians, a few buildings destroyed, insults and death glares.

Seems like a fair bargain to me, Erwin did a good job.

[richardtengcy]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Erwin clearly did bad job there. Eren alone killed more than Annie in just one episode.

And he was not even in berserk mode yet. Eren went Berserk after Annie smashed his face in and went for the wall. Until then Eren was fully sane and simply ended up destroying everything in his way. It is especially noticeable right after the scene with church.

Annie rushed to an open area, sees people and changes the course and just keeps running to another open area.
Then comes Eren and randomly destroys a tower that wasn't even in his way.

He throws Annie on the buildings and smashes through them without a care.

Annie on the other hand switched Eren off in one hit and destroyed only part of one building.
Second building she destroyed is in open area when she had to finally stop and turn around to face Eren. She used it as momentum for a stop.

Annie literally destroyed only 2 buildings in whole episode and in both cases it was a needed action.
a) To stop and face Eren before he snaps her neck from behind
b) To effectively stop Eren from moving in near future which she did succeed in manga. Eren never caught up with her.


I'm sorry, but Eren came far more as an ass in this episode than Annie. Doesn't help that he never actually seemed to regret any of that.
And he is an MC!

I beg to differ on why capturing Annie in the town is a bad idea from Captain Erwin.

We already know the fact that capturing Annie was impossible outside of the wall, even if they did, Annie could call up hordes of Titans to destroy her thus allowing her to escape.

Therefore, Erwin made the plan to capture her inside the city knowing the full consequence of it. Only man with steel balls have the ability to carry out this plan.

Annie is a person who is kind in nature. People deem her evil because she has killed quite a number of soldiers from the Survey corp but if we look closely, if they didn`t attack Annie first, she wouldn`t have bother defending herself thus causing the death of the survey corps.

Just like if the mosquitoes, if they would not have bother to suck my blood, i wouldn`t have bother killing them. Same analogy.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

No, I disagree with that. Had one prioritized the safety of the civilians over capturing the Female Titan, she would have escaped by now.
Erwin knew well a fight between Eren and Annie would have caused heavy collateral damage. He knew well Eren might cause more victim than Annie if he were to go berserk. But why would he care?

What was on the line?
The survival of humanity.

What were the sacrifices made? What did they lose in exchange of achieving that goal?
The lives of a few hundred civilians, a few buildings destroyed, insults and death glares.

Seems like a fair bargain to me, Erwin did a good job.

Ok I have to agree.


But my problem with Eren in anime still remains.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I regret nothing because Eren is responsible for all of the destructions.

I would take it easy if it was not for this:


I mean really, WTF?

Actually wait... he is not destroying a tower, he actually smashes through the building! That's even worse x_x

I don't really disagree on the point that he caused more destruction.

But, Erwin just made a pragmatic decision. A few hundred lives for the rest of humanity. Doesn't excuse the deaths, but I don't think Erwin made a bad decision.

[lateraldeath]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Isn't the manga progressing at like one chapter a month? That means one volume every half year or so. The anime finished volume 8 from what I can gather, the and manga is at volume 11, meaning that it'll be another 2.5 years or so before there is enough material (i.e. vol. 16) for S2. This is gonna suck.

Keep in mind that 2.5 years will only give enough manga material. They will still need to plan, sign contracts, hire, organize before even start MAKING the first ep. So you will want to slap another half a year to year on top of that.

I actually had a dream that season 2 ep 1 got leaked somehow and I watched it.... yup... i can't wait.

Originally Posted by Haak

3) I think his hesitation in killing Annie and subsequent talk with Mikasa about what it's like to be Titan added some much needed depth to his character. I think it's highly interesting to know what being a Titan is like and how it can affect you so I think that was an interesting dimension added to his character.

But him hesitating has nothing to do with either of them being a Titan, it has to do with it being Annie and probably him seeing her cry. If they were just humans and this scene is played out by Eren storming her room at gun point in order to kill her. Seeing her crying would probably caused the same hesitation. It made his character weaker especially because his resolve towards Annie was already dragged and they dragged it out even more, pointlessly this time cause her crystallization has nothing to do with him.

The way the anime develop his char, it probably wouldn't happen but, I wouldn't be surprised if they spent half an ep in season 2 with Eren going emo about the people he killed while fighting Annie.

[JamJackEvo]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I would take it easy if it was not for this:


I mean really, WTF?

Actually wait... he is not destroying a tower, he actually smashes through the building! That's even worse x_x

Anime team did horrible job with Eren's character.

Amen to that.