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View Poll Results: Attack on Titan - Episode 25 (END) Rating
Perfect 10 68 44.16%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 47 30.52%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 11.04%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 6.49%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 3.90%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.30%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.65%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.30%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.65%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-09-29, 11:00   Link #241
kitten320
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By the way, can someone explain Eren's sudden outburst about destroying the world?

It is one thing to kill the titans but what does world has anything to do with it?
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:00   Link #242
Vindi89
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Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
Hmm, when I read this post I suddenly realized that I formulated that sentence wrong. It should have been.

My first post make it sound like the problem is the manga.
Finally read through all the response. I singled you out cause I really wanted to applaud your efforts at reasoning with the manga+anime viewers on their complaints about the changes.

I'm actually not sure why all this manga talk is being allowed in anime episode thread considering if not for these people's complaints none of the anime only viewers would be subjected to the comparisons.

I tend to treat the manga and anime for shows like these separate. I tend to visualize that they're in a multiverse with many similarities but not the same. So they're allowed to be different and I'm cool with that. (I know kinda corny but it helps )

Anyways an anime only viewer I loved the episode.
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:02   Link #243
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by richardtengcy View Post
Annie is a person who is kind in nature. People deem her evil because she has killed quite a number of soldiers from the Survey corp but if we look closely, if they didn`t attack Annie first, she wouldn`t have bother defending herself thus causing the death of the survey corps.
What, you mean when she led a herd of titans among them in order to kidnap one of their own?

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2013-09-29 at 12:58.
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:14   Link #244
lateraldeath
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I regret nothing because Eren is responsible for all of the destructions.

I would take it easy if it was not for this:
You know at this scene, the first thing that came to my mind was this looks like something a derp titan would do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindi89 View Post
I'm actually not sure why all this manga talk is being allowed in anime episode thread considering if not for these people's complaints none of the anime only viewers would be subjected to the comparisons.

I tend to treat the manga and anime for shows like these separate. I tend to visualize that they're in a multiverse with many similarities but not the same. So they're allowed to be different and I'm cool with that. (I know kinda corny but it helps )

Anyways an anime only viewer I loved the episode.
Well, this isn't exactly fitting in the "manga discussion" thread either since it's talking about the anime. So here is the most fitting location unless a new thread called anime vs manga comparison is created, but that's just asking for conflict.

I think most of us say these things understanding they are different entities and that anime has more restrictions. I very much enjoyed the episode as well and think they did a very good job considering they need to conclude the season. However, manga readers compare because we have an expectation already to how awesome the story/characters are and wanted to see that brought to life, it's what an anime adaptation does. So it's disappointing when the things we have been anticipating doesn't get carried over, regardless of the reason. I can understand your point of view as an anime only viewer though. If you liked the episode then the anime studio did their job despite what we say here.
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:22   Link #245
Zeydra
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What, you mean when she led a herd of titans among them in order to kidnap on of their own?
In Annie's defense until we know the reasoning she and the rest of her allies have for doing what they're doing I don't think she can simply be deemed evil. I'm not saying she's good either, but for all we know the deaths that resulted in her running through the countryside and attracting a herd of titans was simply a necessary sacrifice akin to Erwin's sacrifices.
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:24   Link #246
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Erwin clearly did bad job there. Eren alone killed more than Annie in just one episode.

And he was not even in berserk mode yet. Eren went Berserk after Annie smashed his face in and went for the wall. Until then Eren was fully sane and simply ended up destroying everything in his way. It is especially noticeable right after the scene with church.

Annie rushed to an open area, sees people and changes the course and just keeps running to another open area.
Then comes Eren and randomly destroys a tower that wasn't even in his way.

He throws Annie on the buildings and smashes through them without a care.

Annie on the other hand switched Eren off in one hit and destroyed only part of one building.
Second building she destroyed is in open area when she had to finally stop and turn around to face Eren. She used it as momentum for a stop.

Annie literally destroyed only 2 buildings in whole episode and in both cases it was a needed action.
a) To stop and face Eren before he snaps her neck from behind
b) To effectively stop Eren from moving in near future which she did succeed in manga. Eren never caught up with her.


I'm sorry, but Eren came far more as an ass in this episode than Annie. Doesn't help that he never actually seemed to regret any of that.
And he is an MC!
The question to ask you is was there any better alternative?

For the record, Annie is an experienced fighter as we've seen and everybody knows that even in Titan form Eren is no match for her.

1. Erwin made a plan to capture Annie outside the walls and a lot of people died to make it happen and it was a complete failure. To try again would be suicidal.

2. Plan 2, capture Annie within the walls and lure her into a space where she couldn't transform. Would've succeeded had she not had that ring in her finger and avoided casualties.

3. Plan 3, capture Annie using those cannons which they did but she was able to break free and then roam around causing damage (Titans running in enclosed spaces will cause damage no matter what. She could minimize because she's a more experienced fighter and just damaging buildings would slow her down)

4. Plan 4, use all remaining fighters and Eren to stop her no matter the costs.

So I don't see how you can criticize Erwin when in fact he literally had 2 back-up plans to his first one which involved quietly capturing her and minimizing damage. Plan 4 was literally a last resort because Annie was doing whatever she could to escape and he could not let her escape no matter the costs.

As for the civilian casualties, it was inevitable and while it's inexcusable it was a rude wake-up call to those people who wouldn't hesitate to send people like the Recon Corps to their deaths to protect them.

It was also a wake-up call to the Military police who should be the most elite out of all the soldiers yet they can't do squat in the face of a Titan.

In fact the first thing the Military Police should've done was to evacuate and get the citizens out of the way rather than just stand there and stare.

Quote:
In Annie's defense until we know the reasoning she and the rest of her allies have for doing what they're doing I don't think she can simply be deemed evil. I'm not saying she's good either, but for all we know the deaths that resulted in her running through the countryside and attracting a herd of titans was simply a necessary sacrifice akin to Erwin's sacrifices.
Yeah try telling that to Eren and the others who lost their families when the first walls were broken. Annie clearly is part of the group that was involved in that (Special Titans like the Armored and Colossal). Were those deaths a necessary sacrifice?
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Old 2013-09-29, 11:36   Link #247
Eragon
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Yeah try telling that to Eren and the others who lost their families when the first walls were broken. Annie clearly is part of the group that was involved in that (Special Titans like the Armored and Colossal). Were those deaths a necessary sacrifice?
Considering that the plan involved letting mindless Titans loose on the masses, it was inevitable. Since we have no idea why they wanted to invade its as justified to forgive Annie as it is to crucify her as a monster. At this point, you cannot objectively stamp any label on her head.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:00   Link #248
Witch of Uncertainty
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Yeah try telling that to Eren and the others who lost their families when the first walls were broken. Annie clearly is part of the group that was involved in that (Special Titans like the Armored and Colossal). Were those deaths a necessary sacrifice?
But then again, why did they invade? Just for shits and giggles? Why was humanity attacked by titans 100 years ago, anyway? And why is their wall made out of titans?
I've only watched the Anime, so I don't know anything beyond what we've been shown, but Armin even made a point of not knowing what Annie's goal is. The same goes for the titan side in general. What are they fighting for? I'm pretty certain it's more than "we're evil". There's 2 sides of every coin. The titan side is still in shadows for us.
I doubt I can wait until S2 comes out, so I'm off to read the manga, now.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:15   Link #249
Zeydra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Yeah try telling that to Eren and the others who lost their families when the first walls were broken. Annie clearly is part of the group that was involved in that (Special Titans like the Armored and Colossal). Were those deaths a necessary sacrifice?
The same could be said for the people who have now lost family because of Erwin's plan to pit two titans he knew were practically wmd's in a battle in the middle of a highly populated city. As the viewer we know why Erwin did this and feel it is justified, but if I was just some citizen who lived there and knew nothing about it? I would feel the same way Eren does towards titans over the events that just took place.

That is why until we know the story of Annie and her comrades we cannot simply say she and her allies are evil. Antagonists to be sure, but evil is yet to be seen.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:21   Link #250
~Yami~
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Episode 25 has everything to be closing episode for this awesome anime

it has a wide-destructive scale fighting... with blood splatters around the scene
so many deaths.... and also so many feels... with berserk Eren rampaging around
Annie's flashback is still mysterious... why the heck she did all of this?? and what did her father do?
We also got another close 'intercourse' between these duo Titans *Eren still on the top, eh?*

I always thought Mikasa will be the one who ended Annie's life...
but it seems like she only stepped on her face, cut her fingers... then spout some 'farewell message' to her... I always curious about how they viewed each other... Did Mikasa considered Annie as rival while Annie considered Mikasa as her biggest nuisance?

Well... that closing in the battle is quite anticlimatic... I think everyone will stop fighting when they saw tears in maiden's eyes -I still hate Annie though-
The aftermath of the battle is calming.... and how Recon Troops acted during this whole episode really proved that they're truly the best squads inside the wall (Military Police just ashamed themselves as always)

Ending song with cap of second-cour scenes... and teaser in the end

Dang! 10/10!! Perfect
Now I hope they will start second season next week... hahaha...
I just can't wait to see more
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:26   Link #251
ninryu
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I anticipated through discussions - all I got is bitching. Why did I even try.
We got more than ten pages moaning about the changes from the manga - we got it. It's different. It was different throughout the all anime. It's anime thread, so talk about the anime.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:41   Link #252
Spelt
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Well im sad to see season 1 come to its end. Upside is it ended and awesome season with an awesome episode. Downside is now starts the wait for Season 2 which could take a long time. Altough im sure they will make it since the popularity of the series.

Episode easily gets a 9/10 from me!
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:44   Link #253
darklegends8
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Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
Considering that the plan involved letting mindless Titans loose on the masses, it was inevitable. Since we have no idea why they wanted to invade its as justified to forgive Annie as it is to crucify her as a monster. At this point, you cannot objectively stamp any label on her head.
objective: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased

The only facts we know paint her as a monster. Maybe we'll find out something later on that'll change that, but yes, we can absolutely objectively stamp her as a monster.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:49   Link #254
Eragon
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Originally Posted by darklegends8 View Post
objective: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased

The only facts we know paint her as a monster. Maybe we'll find out something later on that'll change that, but yes, we can absolutely objectively stamp her as a monster.
unbiased. Your perspective is biased since you have only seen one side of the story. Try again.

People seem to be pretty happy to condemn someone to death or worse without all the facts.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:55   Link #255
darklegends8
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unbiased. Your perspective is biased since you have only seen one side of the story. Try again.

People seem to be pretty happy to condemn someone to death or worse without all the facts.
True, but only as biased as you are. Look at it like this, all we know is what she's done. You're basically hoping that there's something more to her story that will vindicate her, and because of that you're willing to suspend judgment despite what she has done is concrete and factual.

Also, everything will be biased, but the point is to limit it. We can only be objective based on what we know at the time, you can always say "we need more information," but it's a moot point if you keep on saying it because then decisions are never going to be made.

Right now, Annie isn't doing a lot to help vindicate herself, so even if there is something in the future that will change that; right now, she should absolutely be treated as a monster.

Knowing something was biased and that you didn't have all the information are both largely retrospective statements.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:58   Link #256
Haak
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Originally Posted by lateraldeath View Post
But him hesitating has nothing to do with either of them being a Titan, it has to do with it being Annie and probably him seeing her cry. If they were just humans and this scene is played out by Eren storming her room at gun point in order to kill her.
I know him hesitating isn't linked to them both being Titans. I was just saying both of those things added to his character.

Quote:
Seeing her crying would probably caused the same hesitation. It made his character weaker especially because his resolve towards Annie was already dragged and they dragged it out even more, pointlessly this time cause her crystallization has nothing to do with him.
I heavily disagree that it's weakened his character. I think the scene was meant to show that despite nearly becoming a monster, he still had some humanity in him.

And it's not like it is out of character or anything. As we saw during the fight, he still cared enough about Annie to remember the past and wonder why she became like this. I think it would have been out of character if he hadn't hesitated. And besides, it's just a moments hesitation. He would have probably still gone through with it.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:07   Link #257
Claym0re
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Quite an action packed episode for the finale I like that. What I didn't like is that even after 25 episodes what we know about the titans is a BIG FAT NOTHING.

And now I am supposed to wait god knows how much time for a second season where we can finally start touching the subject? Either the author inserted a mistery plot which he has no idea how to unfold or the timing of this finale is just plain terrible.

I am pretty sure thats the moment when Ill start reading the manga.

P.S. Sorry about the rant but I was expecting atleast _something_ to answer some of the thousands of questions I have.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:11   Link #258
Eragon
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Originally Posted by darklegends8 View Post
True, but only as biased as you are. Look at it like this, all we know is what she's done. You're basically hoping that there's something more to her story that will vindicate her, and because of that you're willing to suspend judgment despite what she has done is concrete and factual.

Also, everything will be biased, but the point is to limit it. We can only be objective based on what we know at the time, you can always say "we need more information," but it's a moot point if you keep on saying it.

Right now, Annie isn't doing a lot to help vindicate herself, so even if there is something in the future that will change that, right now, she should absolutely be treated as a monster.
No. What I'm doing is not take up pitchfork and torches on the basis of incomplete information. You seem ready to disregard any information that might - and most probably will - be provided down the road because it may end up contradicting your judgement. If I'm going to judge a character for what he/she has done, I need all the perspective that the narrative can give me.

By your logic, Eren's an even bigger monster after the final episode. He killed way more people than Annie. You and I can rationalize the decision to have an all out fight between titans in the middle of a populated city as pragmatic because we know all the information about why the decision was taken.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:14   Link #259
Anh_Minh
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We know the humans weren't any kind of threat to anything outside the walls. Yet shifters from outside took it upon themselves to destroy one third of humanity. That paints them pretty clearly as the aggressor, regardless of "why" they did it. And it's going to take a rather extraordinary reason to even attempt to justify it.

And of course, that occults a point that a lot of Annie defenders like to forget: it's not just about whether she's "evil". From the walled people's POV, she's the enemy. There's absolutely no reason for them to treat her otherwise.

As for whose fault it is all those civilians in Stohes died... Sure, Erwin and Eren both have their share of responsibility. But so does Annie. It's not Erwin who asked her to infiltrate the army and to sabotage humanity's efforts to regain their territory.
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Old 2013-09-29, 13:16   Link #260
kitten320
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SoldierOfDarkness
As I said after, I understand Erwin.
But I do not understand or agree with Eren's actions.

darklegends8
Want to see a monster? Try watching Sisters Arc in Index/Railgun series.
Accelerator is the monster you are claiming Annie to be yet they are worlds apart.

Unlike Annie, Accelerator didn't show a single redeeming quality until he was stopped.

And guess who is the most loved character in the series?

Anh_Minh
There are 2 problems.
1) Why didn't shifters attack sooner?
2) Where did the titans come from in the first place?

Titans did not exist from the start. And since Eren's father was able to give him titan powers, it is possible that titans are just an experiment gone wrong what would make humanity faulty.


And regarding Annie, I'm not defending her from humanities point of view. She is 100% their enemy right now.
I'm protecting her from viewer's point of view.
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