Smoking

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Frailty

I don't get why people view smokers as Bad people. It's just a stereotype.

It's a matter of point of view. You're a smoker, so you feel you're being oppressed because you can't smoke anywhere you want. But for a non-smoker... take those statements, right there:

Second-hand smoke is bad, I get it. But that's the reason for smoking areas.
There are also manners for smoker to breathe out the smoke where it's least breathed in by non-smokers.

You feel so proud and considerate, but the truth is that you still stink up your surroundings. Smokers don't need to blow smoke right in my face for me to smell the damn thing. Just being close is enough. And then, there are the times I have to walk behind them. They leave the smoke behind. Or, hey, those building entrances where they congregate. Better hold my breath in advance.

So, no, whatever bad feelings non smoker have for you, they probably aren't gratuitous. The abstract knowledge that people destroy their own health doesn't bother me.

Smoking is pretty much the same as Alcohol
too much of either of the two destroys an inner part of the human body.
But I don't see ads saying Alcohol kills

I do. It depends on where you live, I guess.

[Kimidori]

Nightbat Logic last post is simply stupid.

he comparing things that necessary for society to exist with smoke, and saying they just as bad. but they are just as bad doesn't make a bad thing less bad, modern society can't exist without transport like motorcycle, dust is a natural thing and you CAN clean them out. more of all, people always actively search for a clean energy to replace those that harmful for our health, we currently have to use dirty energy just because there are no alternative.

smoking is totally unnecessary, society can exist without it, people can live without it.

as I said, saying other thing just as bad doesn't make smoking any less bad, if it bad, it need to be corrected. we can't correct all bad things at once, but one less bad thing like smoke will make the world better.

and really, traffic and city dust nowhere as harmful as smoke, both to smoker and non-smoker.

Smoking is pretty much the same as Alcohol
too much of either of the two destroys an inner part of the human body.
But I don't see ads saying Alcohol kills

there are, in my country. need me to record them for you?

[monsta666]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

Nightbat Logic last post is simply stupid.

he comparing things that necessary for society to exist with smoke, and saying they just as bad. but they are just as bad doesn't make a bad thing less bad, modern society can't exist without transport like motorcycle, dust is a natural thing and you CAN clean them out. more of all, people always actively search for a clean energy to replace those that harmful for our health, we currently have to use dirty energy just because there are no alternative.

The main qualifier in this statement is to maintain modern life. Modern life maybe desirable but it is still a choice we make. The future does not have to be a continuation of what we have today.

Also our modern lifestyles are not free from significant health risks. Air pollution from vehicle emissions poses significant health risks even when catalytic converters are used to reduce harmful air pollutants. Then you have other sources of air pollution from fossil fuel power stations and other industrial processes. In fact I would say the number of deaths relating to air pollution could very well exceed death by second hand smoke. In the US alone it is estimated that 200,000 people a year die due to air pollution. Now I know this maybe a derailment of the thread but we should not try and dismiss pollutants as mere "dust".

As a final note this post only deals with human loses; the costs to other animals and in particular plant and tree life is considerable and those loses cannot be discounted either as our welfare depends on functioning ecosystems.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Frailty

You make it sound like it's only our fault you guys breathe 2nd hand smokes. Smokers aren't the only reason. There are smoke belching vehicles, Factories, Machines, etc.

Sorry, I didn't specified it clearly, I was talking about cigarette smoke since this IS ABOUT CRIGARETTE SMOKING, not vehicles and factories since cars and factories don't use tobacco as fuel.

There are illegal loggers. Next you'll be pointing out that we're eventually killing the Ozone Layer.

That is another issue. Make a thread about it and I'll discuss things about it. We are talking about smoking here and stick with it.

as I said, it's flawed logic. There are the words may and can. It's not for certain that smokers catch them. Smokers just take the risk.

So what? may or can... that doesn't excuse anyone from getting sick. See a doctor and check on you and I'll eat my words.

so I need to inquire just to be informed that my current smoking habit is or isn't haphazardly dangerous yet?

Just to informed and not to be COMPLETELY IGNORANT.

I never said anything was false. It's Exaggeration.
as I've stated, it only happens to people who do it too much.

People ignore simple disease since they're curable (as they put in their head). We go to the real horrible stuffs. People tend to listen when their life is at stake.

don't lash it out on me if someone else breathed out smoke on you. One does not mean everyone else do it. Don't majoritize.

Don't blame me, blame your irresponsible friends. Since they don't listen to non smokers, why not a fellow smoker teach them discipline though the chances of making one appear as an hypocrite of his own is very possible.

Excuse me, Drunkards don't kill other people?
I wonder how many people die in a year because of Drunk Driving. I wonder how many people had been killed because of a fight between drunks.

I see. Let's ban both. No exceptions.

requoting. Some

Lols, I was exaggerating... Most likely, a pack a day.

I didn't said that because it was an excuse to not be corrected
I said I'm human, because I still have feelings. Having to call someone an addict while barely even knowing them is outright rude and immature.

All addicts are immature. That's a fact. If you are not. I'll not prosecute you.

[Kimidori]

@monsta666 and people always try to lessen air pollutants if not outright eliminate them, acknowledge that they are bad, wrong. not accept them and make them right like some of the smoker here try to argue.

[monsta666]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

@monsta666 and people always try to lessen air pollutants if not outright eliminate them, acknowledge that they are bad, wrong. not accept them and make them right like some of the smoker here try to argue.

People try to lessen air pollutants this is true but the fundamental drive of modern society is to produce more. More cars, more iPhones more everything. Increases in total growth eventually overwhelms any efficiency gains in making each unit less polluting. If you look at most pollutants such as CO2, NO2, SO2 emissions on a global level the amount of pollution emitted each year continues to rise despite all this talk about reductions.

I will go one further and say there is a fundamental conflict between modern capitalism, and it's profit seeking prerogative and maintaining the environment. It seems, when looking at the data, you must make a choice between one or the other. You cannot have both. This is actually the biggest reason why I said society has a choice about choosing modern life.

Going back to the topic at hand though if the smoker can respect the wishes of the non-smoker and not smoke in their faces and keeps an adequate distance by smoking in an open space then I cannot see why smoking is so bad. We allow people to drink and gamble yet those activities create a great deal more suffering than smoking ever will. I do feel we need to respect the right of others even if we consider their activities detrimental to their interest. It is their choice and the only task we as a society can do is inform people of all the facts to the decision they make and insure that their activities do not have an adverse effect on other people. If those two criteria can be met, which I think they can, then I see no problem in allowing people to smoke.

[Anh_Minh]

You're saying that like it's illegal to smoke...

[monsta666]

The point is I have a hard time seeing how one can have such difficulty with the ethics of smoking yet be okay with drinking/gambling. Most things if done irresponsibly have negative consequences. Smoking is no worse than most things that are legal.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by monsta666

The point is I have a hard time seeing how one can have such difficulty with the ethics of smoking yet be okay with drinking/gambling. Most things if done irresponsibly have negative consequences. Smoking is no worse than most things that are legal.

There is such a thing as cognitive dissonance.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by monsta666

The point is I have a hard time seeing how one can have such difficulty with the ethics of smoking yet be okay with drinking/gambling. Most things if done irresponsibly have negative consequences. Smoking is no worse than most things that are legal.

Smoking is legal and in a lot of countries alcohol and fuel have similar excise duties to tobacco. The basic difference is that drinking and gambling in moderate amounts are not harmful while there is no such thing as harmless smoking.

Excessive behavior like binge drinking, a gambling addiction, dangerous driving, excessive eating etc. are all frowned upon as well. Although the smoke and smell of tobacco being a nuisance are probably the main source of negative reactions.

I'm sure chewing tobacco and other forms of smokeless ingestion would help a lot. Added benefit is less risk on wasting lung diseases.

[monsta666]

It is true smoking is never good for your health but the main topic of discussion is NOT primary smoke but secondary smoke. Most people who are arguing about the effects of smoking are not making the argument on the basis of whether it is bad for the smoker rather they frown upon the practice because they are worried about smoking having a negative effect on others.

My argument is the negative consequences of alcohol and gambling to other people (be it family members or friends of the addict) is greater than smoking if taken on a macro level. I never said smoking was illegal although admittedly my last posting did not make this clear; I just made the argument if smoking is so bad for other people then a bigger case can be made for drinking and gambling about making those activities illegal.

The main point though is freedom should be respected even if we don't agree with what people do and the only reason freedoms should be curtailed is if it negatively effects the well being of others. By this measure smoking is no worse than many things that are legal therefore I don't feel there is a good enough case in making smoking an illegal activity as some other posters seem to be suggesting.

[Anh_Minh]

And my point is that you're bitching as if smoking was already illegal or, at any rate, treated very badly. It's not. You aren't being persecuted to unreasonable lengths that alcohol drinkers or gamblers never have to know. You can still legally buy cigarettes in plenty of places, and you can still find plenty of places to smoke. (It varies from country to country, but quite often, "outside" will do.) So what's the point of making those comparisons?

I'll also note that what your friends and family tolerate from you is between you and them. What you impose on total stranger who just happen to be near you when you decide to smoke is another matter.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. It's not my intention, but I'm not sure how to put it more gently. My point is this: smokers aren't innocent victims singled out for persecution.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by monsta666

The point is I have a hard time seeing how one can have such difficulty with the ethics of smoking yet be okay with drinking/gambling. Most things if done irresponsibly have negative consequences. Smoking is no worse than most things that are legal.

There are many places were both those things are illegal. Gambling is illegal in a lot of states or heavily restricted. Buying alcohol is illegal is some states and counties after the effort ot make having, buying, and drinking the stuff nation wide failed horribly in the 1920 and 1930s.

Smoking is also covered by a lot of laws from state to state.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by monsta666

It is true smoking is never good for your health but the main topic of discussion is Both primary smoke but also secondary smoke.

Fixed that for you. We are talking about both.

Most people who are arguing about the effects of smoking are not making the argument on the basis of whether it is bad for the smoker rather they frown upon the practice because they are worried about smoking having a negative effect on others.

Please read every post and not selectively.

By this measure smoking is no worse than many things that are legal therefore I don't feel there is a good enough case in making smoking an illegal activity as some other posters seem to be suggesting.

Smoking is bad for your health as we as gambling and alcoholism. If you're making us choose, I will not since, all of them are bad so I don't mind banning them all.

[SummeryDreams]

Originally Posted by EXEs

Right, the problem I'm having right now needs some explaining.

About 2 months ago, I tried a cigarette, was fine, didn't really like it, yet didn't really dislike it. But recently, whenever I get stressed, I feel like I want to go get a cig and smoke it, even though I only tried it once. Is this normal? If you feel stressed, do you feel like you want a fix of nicotine or whatever?

I myself know that cigarettes are bad for you, cause lung cancer, whatever, but when I get the feeling that I want to smoke, I don't seem to care. So is something wrong with me? I guess I need some help from you guys to try and help explain it, if possible.

Based on this statement, I'd say that this is psychological in nature rather than the direct effect of the nicotine. You said only a stick right? Then you already have the urge but is keep on resisting? There's a way on how to properly smoke that you can never learn on your first try. So basically, it's more on envy from others smoking than a direct hit from an addictive content in a cigarette.

[Shay]

I have give up recently. Used Champix pills and it was fairly easy. I do miss having a smoke because I actually enjoyed it. Had to give up for the kids though. My boy used to ask me why I smoked and I really had no answer for him.

[Ridwan]

Originally Posted by Shay

I have give up recently. Used Champix pills and it was fairly easy. I do miss having a smoke because I actually enjoyed it. Had to give up for the kids though. My boy used to ask me why I smoked and I really had no answer for him.

This is the kind of cool answer I want.

Champix seems like not a very safe way out though A friend of mine recommended hypnotheraphy but I don't think I will take it unless it's a free offer

[SummeryDreams]

Originally Posted by Shay

I have give up recently. Used Champix pills and it was fairly easy. I do miss having a smoke because I actually enjoyed it. Had to give up for the kids though. My boy used to ask me why I smoked and I really had no answer for him.

Ever consider trying vaping? I've heard it's a lot safer.

[Wild Goose]

I want to point out that I am asthmatic. Cigarette smoke gives me breathing difficulties (at one point, I nearly had an asthma attack) and is generally not something I want near my lungs.

Smokers want to kill themselves longterm via cancer, that's find, I don't give a shit.

Smokers who will kill me by smoking in an enclosed area where I am at? That concerns me. Also, the smell gets into your clothes and hair and is unpleasant.

[SummeryDreams]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I want to point out that I am asthmatic. Cigarette smoke gives me breathing difficulties (at one point, I nearly had an asthma attack) and is generally not something I want near my lungs.

Smokers want to kill themselves longterm via cancer, that's find, I don't give a shit.

Smokers who will kill me by smoking in an enclosed area where I am at? That concerns me. Also, the smell gets into your clothes and hair and is unpleasant.

The effect of cigarette in terms of health issues to a secondary smoker are doubled compared to that of a smoker. That gives you a 100% chance of acquiring cancer in the near future compared to a smoker who has a 50% probability of acquiring lung cancer.