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kikix · 2013-11-06, 08:53

Grim Reapers are powerful, but that doesn't mean they have anything to do with being power types. Quite the opposite. The past battles suggest they are purely technique type, using their scythes to cut the lifetime of opponents, using their ghost-like traits or numbers to overcome enemies.

Maou's are devils equivalent to gods. There is no problem with a particularly strong maou to be stronger than many gods. It is no different than another god being stronger than the rest.

Also, this thread is for discussion about Vol.16, which at the point of the threads opening was not even released. It is really not necessary to counter every opinion of others with "We can't say either way until the translation is finished.". This thread IS for speculations and that's a given.

Gary29 · 2013-11-06, 09:00

If he discovered a weakness in the Sacred Gears to nullify their powers, then he must be using some sort of trick to become immune to them. If that's the case, could it be possible to reverse whatever trick he's using and cause him to be prone to the power of Sacred Gears?

Tbolt · 2013-11-06, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikix

Grim Reapers are powerful, but that doesn't mean they have anything to do with being power types. Quite the opposite. The past battles suggest they are purely technique type, using their scythes to cut the lifetime of opponents, using their ghost-like traits or numbers to overcome enemies.

Maou's are devils equivalent to gods. There is no problem with a particularly strong maou to be stronger than many gods. It is no different than another god being stronger than the rest.

Also, this thread is for discussion about Vol.16, which at the point of the threads opening was not even released. It is really not necessary to counter every opinion of others with "We can't say either way until the translation is finished.". This thread IS for speculations and that's a given.

What! If your speculation goes against what has already been written in past chapters someone is going to point that out to you. If you speculate that Ise is actually a Butt man everyone is going to "counter" that with past history.

And if you post that you know what will happen some one will rightly post to wait for the translation.

Ickarium · 2013-11-06, 09:52

Lucifer was a former angel in the real world mythos. Is there any sort of reference in the series that he was a former angel? I don't recall one, but I don't have the series memorized, either.

Former angels become Fallen Angels, not devils, and this predates the Evil Piece stuff, if I recall correctly.

(Though, that brings to mind a question: What happens if an Angel is given an Evil Piece? Heh.)

G147 · 2013-11-06, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero-2

I've just realized.

Lucifer was a former angel, IIRC. Maybe he was involved in the early development of Sacred Gears. And when he fall and went to hell, he brought a copy of the research with him. Then he continued his research until he found its apparent weakness, and started developing ways of nullifying them.

The Lucifer in DxD is a Pure-blooded Devil and one of the original rulers of the Underworld, plus Angels become Fallen Angels when they fall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary29

If he discovered a weakness in the Sacred Gears to nullify their powers, then he must be using some sort of trick to become immune to them. If that's the case, could it be possible to reverse whatever trick he's using and cause him to be prone to the power of Sacred Gears?

Well Ajuka did mentioned that he was able to modify his demonic powers to his taste, so it's possible that Rizevim can do the same too.

kikix · 2013-11-06, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbolt

If your speculation goes against what has already been written in past chapters someone is going to point that out to you.

I'm not talking about such a thing. I couldn't possibly have any problem with people correcting those that make such blatant mistakes (and that includes when I make one). What I am speaking about is when a poster writes something that is NOT against what was written before (either it was not fully explained in the original works or it is related entirely to possible future content) and gets such a response.
When I opened this thread, I expected it to be a place for "what if's" and "maybe's" like that. Instead I see most possible discussion cut short before it can begin with a phrase that shouldn't (in my opinion) ever appear on a thread like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbolt

And if you post that you know what will happen some one will rightly post to wait for the translation.

What people post here is speculation. Things that they think or hope will happen. Saying that we'll have to wait and see is redundant at that point and cuts the discussion short. The fact that we won't know what happens till we read the real thing is a fact and there is no place to discuss at that point.
If discussion is pointless until we get to read the real thing thanks to the efforts of translator (which I am grateful for obviously), then this thread should be locked until that time.

Tbolt · 2013-11-06, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikix

If discussion is pointless until we get to read the real thing thanks to the efforts of translator (which I am grateful for obviously), then this thread should be locked until that time.

Discussion is fine but beating a dead horse to try and prove your (not pointing at you) speculation just gets old. We can agree to disagree and just move on. That's how "wait for the translation" should be taken.

kusabireika · 2013-11-06, 16:15

this tread serve also to discuss speculation if we got it right before the full translation of vol 16

though i wont argue with you ._. so to keep the flame a minimum

Gary29 · 2013-11-07, 09:34

Life 1 Part 1 of 3, New Life and True Longinus have been translated. Life 1 is gonna be huge!

Chris38 · 2013-11-07, 09:43

And it seems like we learn who is going to be Ise's first magician.

Although, I'm more interested in the last part, since it seems to be implied that Cao Cao is still ... "human", even after he returned from the realm of the dead.

it_happens · 2013-11-07, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris38

Although, I'm more interested in the last part, since it seems to be implied that Cao Cao is still ... "human", even after he returned from the realm of the dead.

true, thats one of the mysteries solved, but now i wonder what georg found interesting enough to remain in rod and not go back with cao cao, and how did he heal from Samuels curse?

Spoiler for speculation to recent and future translated volume:

yankky5 · 2013-11-07, 10:32

A porno magazine on a "field" trip HA! well played ise, looks like WTF factor in this volume is strong, TY n0m

rickiminato · 2013-11-07, 11:30

i have a doubt
not supposed to be the new owner of the holy spear is isei because in the vol 14 the holy spear rejecting cao cao for his bad acts

Chris38 · 2013-11-07, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickiminato

i have a doubt
not supposed to be the new owner of the holy spear is isei because in the vol 14 the holy spear rejecting cao cao for his bad acts

It was the Will of the God of the Bible that has chosen Ise's dream over Cao Cao.

It was never stated, that because of that the True Longinus changed it's owner, and it wasn't stated that the new owner is Ise, especially with Ise already being a possessor of a different Longinus.

So, I think that you misread something in that scene.

After all, Cao Cao was still capable of using the spear to retreat in volume 12, after the "Will of the God scene" has occurred.

Phoenix221186 · 2013-11-07, 12:06

i get the feeling that something else happen in that scene like he might have gotten something from the spear but who knows =/

G147 · 2013-11-07, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickiminato

i have a doubt
not supposed to be the new owner of the holy spear is isei because in the vol 14 the holy spear rejecting cao cao for his bad acts

Actually the True Longinus still belongs to Cao Cao. Truth Idea's effects depend on God's will in the Holy Spear and sucks the ambition of the holder of this spear, and by responding to how strong the opponent is, it will create many effects and miracles which will be different depending on what the will chooses such as granting an absolute power to destroy the opponent or a blessing to the opponent. So Issei can be said to only received the blessings.

kikix · 2013-11-07, 12:32

The power that Cao Cao used, if I recall correctly, was explained as an effect brought by the power of God, hence the "will of God" that Azazel mentioned to Issei. Even Cao Cao had no control over what would happen.

For all we know, the spear may have just decided to "not interfere" with Issei. Basically it would be suggesting Cao Cao to change the way he does things, telling him what Sacra did...that he did go astray from his path. As Chris38 mentioned, nothing stated that the spear changed its owner. Cao Cao said that it is "not activating" which would directly state that nothing at all happened.

As for Samaels curse, it is possible that when Sakra robbed the three of their longinuses and they died (as that's what happens when sacred gear is removed from its user, like with Asia), he was returned to his natural state, aka. without the artificially implanted medusa eye. That could have ended the curse.
Until there will be information on whether Cao Cao still have the medusa eye, I think this is the most reasonable explanation.
Alternatively, Truth Idea may have just decreased the effects of the curse on Cao Cao.

Chris38 · 2013-11-08, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by it_happens

Spoiler for speculation to recent and future translated volume:

I doubt that Rizevim is going to fight more seriously so soon, unless the entire group of the good guys, gets some really good power up, in the period of time between the current volume and the next one.

After all, there is no point in the main arc villain to get more serious, unless the main protagonists group becomes a more serious threat to his plans and at the current point in the story, I think that it's still going to take some time, before the DxD team reaches that level.

Personally, I think that the next few volumes are going to introduce us to a few more characters that want to fulfill Rizevim's goal, since I don't think that Grayfia's brother + the Evil Dragons are going to be the only subordinates that Rizevim is going to have.

Tbolt · 2013-11-08, 14:19

My thoughts on Life 1. So far is its a great beginning I'm looking forward to the rest, but one thing stands out in my mind so far is the Sitri group. If you take what Saji says along with what has been written so far about Sona's dream of a rating school it sure seems like Sona is putting the horse before the cart. And with the worries and problems Saji has so far with the school and Sona sending Bennia and Rugal to Romania with the gang using a IMO really weak excuse.

Quote:

Yes, both of them are showing a side where they are still inexperienced to battle as a Devil

.

No one would send rookies (especially from another group) no matter how strong they potentially may be into an unknown battle area. Chapter 14 doesn't count because all members of both groups had at least some battle experience. Its just my opinion, but reading between the lines I think we may be seeing the breakup of the Sitri group. And we may be seeing the future of Ise's team.

Sorry my intel background just kicked in so I'm probably projecting a little to far into the future of the story.

kikix · 2013-11-08, 15:20

I belive you mixed the order of horse and cart.

Anyway, they are rookies as devils, but I don't think they are rookies in fighting. They probably have a lot of experience with their own fights from when they were not devils yet. When thinking of it that way, it is actually a sound excuse.

Sitri group have a lot less actual battle experience than Gremory (at least in the timelime of the volumes). Sona is a great strategist, better than Rias most likely, but Gremory group is simply more used to life-and-death battles, as well as more powerful. Fighting alongside them would be a good experience for the two in my opinion.
Also, it is a good way to get points for mid-devil promotion exam, which they need to undergo for Sona's dream. The rest of Sitri group had some achievements in that aspect already.

2013-11-06, 09:52	Link #784
Ickarium Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	Lucifer was a former angel in the real world mythos. Is there any sort of reference in the series that he was a former angel? I don't recall one, but I don't have the series memorized, either. Former angels become Fallen Angels, not devils, and this predates the Evil Piece stuff, if I recall correctly. (Though, that brings to mind a question: What happens if an Angel is given an Evil Piece? Heh.) __________________

2013-11-06, 16:15	Link #788
kusabireika Seiso Academy Student Graphic Designer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lanvaldear :)	this tread serve also to discuss speculation if we got it right before the full translation of vol 16 though i wont argue with you ._. so to keep the flame a minimum __________________ W&G MAL

2013-11-07, 10:32	Link #792
yankky5 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Between a dragon(China) and a kangaroo(Australia)	A porno magazine on a "field" trip HA! well played ise, looks like WTF factor in this volume is strong, TY n0m __________________

2013-11-07, 11:30	Link #793
rickiminato Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Mexico	i have a doubt not supposed to be the new owner of the holy spear is isei because in the vol 14 the holy spear rejecting cao cao for his bad acts __________________

2013-11-07, 12:06	Link #795
Phoenix221186 Butt Theory Creator xD Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: california	i get the feeling that something else happen in that scene like he might have gotten something from the spear but who knows =/ __________________ I Hate Loneliness, But It Loves Me

2013-11-06, 08:53	Link #781
kikix Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	Grim Reapers are powerful, but that doesn't mean they have anything to do with being power types. Quite the opposite. The past battles suggest they are purely technique type, using their scythes to cut the lifetime of opponents, using their ghost-like traits or numbers to overcome enemies. Maou's are devils equivalent to gods. There is no problem with a particularly strong maou to be stronger than many gods. It is no different than another god being stronger than the rest. Also, this thread is for discussion about Vol.16, which at the point of the threads opening was not even released. It is really not necessary to counter every opinion of others with "We can't say either way until the translation is finished.". This thread IS for speculations and that's a given.

2013-11-06, 09:00	Link #782
Gary29 Not Bennia Lover Join Date: Oct 2013 Age: 26	If he discovered a weakness in the Sacred Gears to nullify their powers, then he must be using some sort of trick to become immune to them. If that's the case, could it be possible to reverse whatever trick he's using and cause him to be prone to the power of Sacred Gears?

2013-11-07, 09:34	Link #789
Gary29 Not Bennia Lover Join Date: Oct 2013 Age: 26	Life 1 Part 1 of 3, New Life and True Longinus have been translated. Life 1 is gonna be huge!

2013-11-07, 09:43	Link #790
Chris38 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Poland Age: 38	And it seems like we learn who is going to be Ise's first magician. Although, I'm more interested in the last part, since it seems to be implied that Cao Cao is still ... "human", even after he returned from the realm of the dead.

2013-11-07, 12:32	Link #797
kikix Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	The power that Cao Cao used, if I recall correctly, was explained as an effect brought by the power of God, hence the "will of God" that Azazel mentioned to Issei. Even Cao Cao had no control over what would happen. For all we know, the spear may have just decided to "not interfere" with Issei. Basically it would be suggesting Cao Cao to change the way he does things, telling him what Sacra did...that he did go astray from his path. As Chris38 mentioned, nothing stated that the spear changed its owner. Cao Cao said that it is "not activating" which would directly state that nothing at all happened. As for Samaels curse, it is possible that when Sakra robbed the three of their longinuses and they died (as that's what happens when sacred gear is removed from its user, like with Asia), he was returned to his natural state, aka. without the artificially implanted medusa eye. That could have ended the curse. Until there will be information on whether Cao Cao still have the medusa eye, I think this is the most reasonable explanation. Alternatively, Truth Idea may have just decreased the effects of the curse on Cao Cao.

2013-11-08, 15:20	Link #800
kikix Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	I belive you mixed the order of horse and cart. Anyway, they are rookies as devils, but I don't think they are rookies in fighting. They probably have a lot of experience with their own fights from when they were not devils yet. When thinking of it that way, it is actually a sound excuse. Sitri group have a lot less actual battle experience than Gremory (at least in the timelime of the volumes). Sona is a great strategist, better than Rias most likely, but Gremory group is simply more used to life-and-death battles, as well as more powerful. Fighting alongside them would be a good experience for the two in my opinion. Also, it is a good way to get points for mid-devil promotion exam, which they need to undergo for Sona's dream. The rest of Sitri group had some achievements in that aspect already.