Where are the yuri anime...

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You really don't see how there's been a spike in "all-girls slice of life shows" since 2009? You really don't see how that could conceivably co-opt the yuri fanbase?

These shows have been used as a substitute by yuri fans, but does that mean they're the reason yuri shows went extinct? I don't think so.

I disagree. And here's why...

Spoiler for Minor Mari-Mite spoilers; implied spoilers for other shows in comparison:

Mari-Mite does have one explicit yuri relationship. We see a kiss between two girls on at least two different occasions in Mari-Mite. And one of those two kisses is connected to a very obvious and serious lesbian affair. That's more than I can say for Madoka, Saki, or what I saw of the other shows on your list.

That's only 4 episodes at best out of 4 seasons. 95% of the relationships in Marimite are completely platonic, and most of the girls are implied to be straight. Kanoko in Maria Holic is 100% lesbian as well as most of the girls in Yuru Yuri.

If "action" and at least one serious relationship is what matters, then I don't see why you dismiss Seikon no Qwaser which has that times 100.

That's really stretching it. I can't imagine anybody watching either of these two shows primarily for the yuri.

I did... At least for Qwaser. And I know plenty of other yuri fans did.

Yeah, I get that your grasping at straws because for some reason, you don't want to admit that actual yuri has been in decline the last few years.

It's not on the decline because it's never been a big thing in the first place. There have only been two good years for yuri anime in the past 10 years (I could even make that 20 or 30, that's how few pure yuri anime there are out there). They're exceptions rather than the rule. Things simply went back to how they were before.

You know what? As a big yuri fan, I honestly find Yuru Yuri offensive. I think it makes a total mockery of serious lesbian relationships. So there's no way I'll ever agree with counting Yuru Yuri as an "actual yuri" show, regardless of its title.

And ultimately, Madoka Magica is still a yuri subtext show.

So the real number is 8-0, in my view.

Yuru Yuri is a comedy, so of course it's not serious. That doesn't make it any less yuri. Homura's love for Madoka has been confirmed to be romantic, so I don't why that doesn't count as yuri either.

I'm going to drop this here because you seem extremely touchy about that subject. Let's just agree to disagree and rejoice there are two yuri anime coming out next year.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

These shows have been used as a substitute by yuri fans, but does that mean they're the reason yuri shows went extinct?

Yes, I think so. And I think that's a perfectly reasonably conclusion to come to. If you're successfully capturing Audience A with shows that have broad appeal then that can negate a commercial desire to target Audience A alone.

That's only 4 episodes at best out of 4 seasons. 95% of the relationships in Marimite are completely platonic,

That's very debatable. There is no less yuri subtext in Marimite than there is any of the more recent shows you listed.

and most of the girls are implied to be straight.

No, they're not. Only two of them are clearly implied to be straight. IIRC.

Kanoko in Maria Holic is 100% lesbian...

Maria Holic originally aired in 2009. It had a sequel a couple years ago. So that adds 1 to each list. So now we're at 9-1.

as well as most of the girls in Yuru Yuri.

Yuru Yuri is a mockery of actual yuri. None of its yuri relationships are allowed to actually go somewhere concrete. It just "teases in all directions", a recent tendency in some all-girls shows that I've come to dislike, because it typically means you never get real relationship development.

If "action" and at least one serious relationship is what matters, then I don't see why you dismiss Seikon no Qwaser which has that times 100.

Seikon no Qwaser is an ecchi-fanservice shounen action show centered around a male lead. This show is definitely not about yuri relationships. It is vastly different than any of the shows on jedinat's original list of 9.

I did... At least for Qwaser. And I know plenty of other yuri fans did.

If people are actually turning to Qwaser primarily for yuri then that only makes it even more obvious how great a dearth there has been in actual yuri shows.

This would be like turning to Madoka Magica primarily for sci-fi.

It's not on the decline because it's never been a big thing in the first place.

It was a significant thing for a few years. It hasn't been the last few years. So there has been a decline. Perhaps it's a decline off of a fad, but it's still a decline.

Things simply went back to how they were before.

That's possible. I'm not familiar enough with pre-2006 anime to say for sure. But still, if you go up, and come back down, that's still a decline on the "come back down" part.

Yuru Yuri is a comedy, so of course it's not serious. That doesn't make it any less yuri.

In my opinion, it does make it less yuri. I want serious yuri relationships. Not mockeries thereof.

Homura's love for Madoka has been confirmed to be romantic,

Has Madoka's feelings for Homura been confirmed to be romantic? Unrequited love is not a relationship. Besides, what an author says in an interview long after the show aired isn't as important as what's actually on-screen. Loads of viewers won't even ever know about that interview.

I'm going to drop this here because you seem extremely touchy about that subject.

I'm touchy because I want the same thing jedinat does, so I understand where jedinat's coming from. Ecchi-comedies that uses yuri strictly for fanservice is not the same as serious yuri romances/character dramas.

It's like equating Infinite Stratos with Clannad on the het side.

Let's just agree to disagree and rejoice there are two yuri anime coming out next year.

I hope I can at least convey myself well enough for you to understand where I'm coming from.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

9 shows over 4 years is significantly more than 0 over the next 4 (going by jedinat's list). It is significant enough to suspect that larger anime trends are likely at play here. It shows that things haven't stayed the same, and that they have changed. I think the argument that relentlessflame and I made about yuri being folded into "all-girls slice-of-life shows" makes perfect sense. Where do you see the flaws in our reasoning there?

Of the 2006 to 2009 shows list, only Marimite and maybe Kasimasi had what I'd call good sales, and Kasimasi only makes the cut because I have loose standards of what constitutes good. Hence I don't think this is a matter of K-On! stealing audience as much as the genre declining of its own accord.

That, and aside from the predominantly female cast, K-On and its ilk are damn far removed from the 2006 to 2009 era yuri shows I've seen. I'm inclined to approach the idea of them stealing sales from traditional yuri series with some skepticism.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by darkchibi07

How far are you in the Sakura Trick manga? If you ask me, if the peeps at Studio DEEN handles it correctly, the series could very well fill in the gaping holes that's been missing in a lot of past yuri anime, and that's intimacy and passion.

I just read through what's been translated again (2 chapters). I've no complaints about the yuri content, but the humor wasn't all that great and it's a very little substance 4-koma. Just a little disappointed this is the first yuri manga adaption we get after so long, but I'll concede a competent anime studio could turn it into something good.

[Kotohono]

2013:
?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

2012:
???!

2011:
??

2010:
?

Assuming your allowing for a series that features yuri couple and doesn't have to 100% revolve on them, but are part of the main cast then the follow shows fit:

2011: Kyoukaisenjou no Horizon
2012: Mouretsu Pirates

Both shows have a yuri couple with clearly explicit relationships and have clear moments that show it and are fair important people in the cast of their series.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Of the 2006 to 2009 shows list, only Marimite and maybe Kasimasi had what I'd call good sales, and Kasimasi only makes the cut because I have loose standards of what constitutes good. Hence I don't think this is a matter of K-On! stealing audience as much as the genre declining of its own accord.

Those poor sales (outside of Mari-Mite) certainly didn't help, you're right about that. Perhaps the genre would have went into decline anyway.

Still, the fact that the big drop-off for jedinat's list happens right after 2009 (when K-On! hit it big) is certainly eyebrow-raising to me. K-On's influence on the anime industry is something that I think has actually been understated. For that reason, it's something I like to shine a spotlight on from time-to-time.

That, and aside from the predominantly female cast, K-On and its ilk are damn far removed from the 2006 to 2009 era yuri shows I've seen. I'm inclined to approach the idea of them stealing sales from traditional yuri series with some skepticism.

I can see some overlap between K-On and Strawberry Panic. The more lighthearted elements in both shows are similar, I think.

But this part of the discussion is admittedly very subjective.

I want to be clear - I don't bear any ill-will to "cute girls doing cute things" shows over what we're talking about here. In fact, it's one of my favorite genres of anime right now.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Eragon

I should have made myself clear. I couldn't care less if they showed two girls/guys kissing each other (if that's what you mean by the "act") that's not the point. I want recognition of said feelings. This recognition of emotions is clearly present in many of the het shows you may call as teasing. Characters actually declaring their feelings towards another character. We don't even get that.

The teasing isn't which character hooks up with who, the teasing is whether they have feelings for each other or not, most of the time.

Well, what I would say is that you don't often get the two coming together - the feelings and the confirmation that it's yuri (i.e. not strictly platonic).

I find that most yuri in recent years lack one or the other - either the feeling of a serious relationship, or the visual confirmation that it's more than just close platonic friendship.

You'll get deeply felt vaguely romantic emotions between characters or you'll get confirmation of basic physical desire, but not both. Whatever flaws one may think it had, at least Strawberry Panic did in fact give you both.

Whereas with het romances in anime, it's not that unusual to get both.

[Tyabann]

Love Lab is a great yuri anime, everyone here should watch it.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

Assuming your allowing for a series that features yuri couple and doesn't have to 100% revolve on them, but are part of the main cast then the follow shows fit:

2011: Kyoukaisenjou no Horizon
2012: Mouretsu Pirates

Both shows have a yuri couple with clearly explicit relationships and have clear moments that show it and are fair important people in the cast of their series.

I don't know about Kyoukaisen-jou no Horizon (though I'm sure I'd have watched it if it was), but Mouretsu Pirates is in no way a yuri anime. That's like saying an anime with a sports festival episode is a sports anime, an anime with a ghost episode is a horror anime, etc... the yuri thing was a minor side plot and wasn't even very good at that.

It's not just about the bare fact that a yuri anime needs a lesbian character to be categorized as such, or whatever... it's the feel of it; the intent of it; the appeal of it...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by jedinat

I don't know about Kyoukaisen-jou no Horizon (though I'm sure I'd have watched it if it was)

Being serious for a second, Horizon is a great anime and not just because it has an actual, confirmed lesbian couple. Go watch it.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Love Lab is a great yuri anime, everyone here should watch it.

What... the entire premise is about longing for boyfriends, lol.

edit: apparently you were joking, lol.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Love Lab is a great yuri anime, everyone here should watch it.

I gotta admit, this was a hilarious and perfectly timed joke.

@jedinat - In all seriousness, if you haven't watched Saki or Madoka Magica much, you probably should. Much like you and I are both saying, "Yuri as the primary genre" shows are extremely hard to find right now. And as the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers. If you can only get yuri along with a side-dish of mahjong or a side-dish of "weird fantasy plot", then that's still better than nothing, isn't it?

You should know that I love Saki in spite of how I know very little about mahjong, and can barely play it, lol.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

@jedinat - In all seriousness, if you haven't watched Saki or Madoka Magica much, you probably should. Much like you and I are both saying, "Yuri as the primary genre" shows are extremely hard to find right now. And as the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers. If you can only get yuri along with a side-dish of mahjong or a side-dish of "weird fantasy plot", then that's still better than nothing, isn't it?

You should know that I love Saki in spite of how I know very little about mahjong, and can barely play it, lol.

I have seen both, though I don't think I finished Saki (I don't really enjoy most "game" anime, couldn't stand Hikaru no Go for example). I read all the yuri manga scanlated which keeps me afloat, lol. I check Manga Updates basically every day and have everything tagged with yuri/shoujo-ai set to yellow highlight (their system is also useful for hiding unwanted hentai/yaoi releases).

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Love Lab is a great yuri anime, everyone here should watch it.

That was a trap for yuri fans...and I liked it.... I meant the series..>_>

If Sakura Trick succeeds in drawing a good number of audience, I bet that a lot of anime adaptations will pop out everywhere..like mushrooms, and since that sells.

[Kimidori]

no one here watched kiniro mosaic?

[Joyce_Steele]

All we need is an anime adaptation of Girl Friends but too bad its author said to us that is not going to happen.

[mechdra]

I believe yuri anime evolved to a diffrent form for the past few years. There are more closet yuri anime or comedy yuri these days.

By the way...WHERE IS MY STRAWBERRY PANIC SEASON 2!!! (The author focus now on Love Live...)

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

no one here watched kiniro mosaic?

I have.

And, guys, Yuru Yuri is a yuri harem. The same way a normal harem has excessive teasing that never amounts to anything. When it goes somewhere, we call it romance!

[ninryu]

Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto

I have.

And, guys, Yuru Yuri is a yuri harem. The same way a normal harem has excessive teasing that never amounts to anything. When it goes somewhere, we call it romance!

Not really. It's more of a parody of the pseudo-yuri anime tropes. A bit hypocrite indeed.

[mechdra]

What about Symphogear?