Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by the one above all

Some People online are blaming Haruto for Saki;s misfortune

I can understand why, though I don't agree with it. Many things were going on at the time, and as much as I don't like him, I won't blame him for something that was out of his control. I believe what gets on most people's nerves is that he is too Shoko-centric. If it isn't that, it's the curse he took upon himself to bear alone. These two things prevent him from focusing on what's happening around him.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

I can understand why, though I don't agree with it. Many things were going at the time, and as much as I don't like him. I won't blame him for something that was out of his control. I believe what gets on most people's nerves is that he is too Shoko-centric. If it isn't that, it's the curse he took upon himself to bear alone. These two things prevent him from focusing on things around him.

I also think that part of the reason for people blaming him is because in the preview he is shown talking to Shoko and possibly confessing to her. It might be making a few fans upset that he is more preoccupied with Shoko than trying to find Saki or at least angsting about her.

[Chibikiwi]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

I can understand why, though I don't agree with it. Many things were going at the time, and as much as I don't like him. I won't blame him for something that was out of his control. I believe what gets on most people's nerves is that he is too Shoko-centric. If it isn't that, it's the curse he took upon himself to bear alone. These two things prevent him from focusing on things around him.

Yes, those are the only two things that prevent me from liking him a lot, but you are right too much was going on for him to be able to go and save Saki. On another note, I think someone might have mentioned this before, but what if the real Liselotte survived? I highly doubt it though since she fell like that. Poor L-Elf


^Yeah that preview got to me a bit because that might've been Saki in the bag and while she is like that, Haruto is there with Shoko. (But that's all I'm gonna say because we don't know what Haruto and Shoko are talking about and he might be worried about Saki,but then again he might be too preoccupied with L-Elf, the incoming attack and so forth to remember her )

[LightDragonman]

Considering that Shoko hasn't been in the spotlight for much of this part, it's no wonder some are annoyed that Haruto is ignoring Saki.

[Chibikiwi]

Originally Posted by LightDragonman

Considering that Shoko hasn't been in the spotlight for much of this part, it's no wonder some are annoyed that Haruto is ignoring Saki.

I just hope both of them get lots of screentime now because both Shoko and Saki deserve it (I like them both, hard to choose a favorite)

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Chibikiwi

Yes, those are the only two things that prevent me from liking him a lot, but you are right too much was going on for him to be able to go and save Saki. On another note, I think someone might have mentioned this before, but what if the real Liselotte survived? I highly doubt it though since she fell like that. Poor L-Elf


^Yeah that preview got to me a bit because that might've been Saki in the bag and while she is like that, Haruto is there with Shoko. (But that's all I'm gonna say because we don't know what Haruto and Shoko are talking about and he might be worried about Saki,but then again he might be too preoccupied with L-Elf, the incoming attack and so forth to remember her )

Magius Lieselotte was the real Lieselotte at least for L-elf. She jacked that girl before she first met them. Throughout the beginning of talk between Haruto and Lieselotte. I kept wondering what happens to the spirits of the people that magius take over. In other words, what happened to the real Lieselotte, I finally realized at the end why nothing was brought up about that because the magius inside Lieselotte was the Lieselotte that knew L-elf from a long time ago.

Originally Posted by the one above all

I also think that part of the reason for people blaming him is because in the preview he is shown talking to Shoko and possibly confessing to her. It might be making a few fans upset that he is more preoccupied with Shoko than trying to find Saki or at least angsting about her.

I just don't want him to start angsting about her when it's apparent. After he knows about the things he was ignorant about Saki when it's obviously revealed, if he starts saying "it's all my fault" then, I'm not going to like him more. I'm going to dislike him more.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

@finalfury When I said about Haruto being the founder of the empire, he actually went and did found a empire like the future-Saki said to the prince when teaching him the history.

Actually, it's not said Haruto's the founder of the Empire. Saki merely spoke of the the founder to them (the kamitsuki) but never made any mention the Prince is related to him, he was never brought as a relative or ancestor. He could found a kamitsuki order to protect the Empire which seems to be more or less Saki and Satomi roles in the future: caretakers of the royal family. Like the opposite to the Magius who use the politicians and world powers to hide, just speculation. Haruto has zero leadership skills and most of the New Jior ministers were waiting and obeying L-Elf's orders.

It's entirely possible, Haruto helps L-Elf to build an empire where magius, kamitsuki and humans can co-exist like Lieselotte wanted when he tells him her goal. Just two cents.

Originally Posted by the one above all

Some People online are blaming Haruto for Saki;s misfortune

That's unfortunate. He had enough to deal with this episode.

[Faerie]

In Haruto's defense....

Even if he WAS confessing to Shoko, I think it's very unfair to blame him.
He didn't technically know Lise (though he "sort of" did, due to bodyjacking L-11), but the guy clearly shipped those two hard, be it due to knowing how L-11 felt or because of the similarities with his own situation or both. And he just saw it end badly. Going to find your own love interest and confess is a typical human reaction.

It's not like the alternative to talking to Shoko after returning is to go out, turn around, guns blazing and take off to go rescue Saki. He doesn't even know where she is...
Sure, it may look a bit uncaring from Saki's perspective, but you've got to remember, he loves Shoko, not her. They may have become friends and she cares a whole lot for him but he doesn't care as much as she does. But I'm not sure he sees her as much closer than his other friends.
Again, can't really blame him for that. That is, if he was even confessing.

Though I'd agree it's pretty harsh that no one seems to even care enough to mention her name Poor thing is giving off those hardcore Zessica vibes these days. At least she gets to smile in the timeskip, poor Zess didn't even get that...

[Thess]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

In Haruto's defense....

Even if he WAS confessing to Shoko, I think it's very unfair to blame him.
He didn't technically know Lise (though he "sort of" did, due to bodyjacking L-11), but the guy clearly shipped those two hard, be it due to knowing how L-11 felt or because of the similarities with his own situation or both. And he just saw it end badly. Going to find your own love interest and confess is a typical human reaction.

Exactly. L-Elf already left Saki a note when they left to contact the royalists, so why would he suspect she's in trouble at all? Haruto's kind of oblivious.

[Kurohane]

^ I think the fact Saki never made it, or never contacted them to let them know if she escaped okay would be more than enough to cause worry.

I'm not going to blame Haruto if he does confess, but some people aren't going to take it well due to other characters' position or wellbeing. A major character is most likely depressed and another one is the enemy's prisoner. People won't like another person trying to be happy, while other characters are miserable. I don't know. It looks like he's using L-elf and Liselotte as a crutch to get himself to man up for something he was too afraid to do in the first place.

[charago]

LISELOTTEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
I KNOW THAT U'LL DIE EITHER WAY BUT I NEVER HOPE IT TO BE THIS SOON!!! WHEN THIS IS HAPPEN TO BE THE VERY FIRST PROPER CONFESSION IN THE SERIES, WHY SUNRISE HAVE TO KILL HER BEFORE SHE CAN TELL L-ELF ABOUT HER FEELING TOO!!!WHYY!!!

Poor L-ELF...he lost his reason to fight and to LIVE, Haruto will have to think of something to wake L-Elf from his nightmare and start to help JIOR again in the war...

Hope that Haruto will confess his feeling to Shouko, he have to realizing Liselotte dream where human and magius can be together..

When Liz told Haruto about what is magius, it just come to my mind that Magius is like the alien in The Host novel..just telling, don't mind it.

Saki..she will likely become Dorssia prisoner and will be used to blackmail JIOR, and probably that is where Saki yell "Haruto, save me!!" in ep 12 preview..

All in all this is quite an emotional episode for L-Elf..next week we will see an emo L-Elf.. Even though the writer said that Haruto and L-Elf are both the protag of this series, i found it that L-Elf is more protagonist-like than Haruto..maybe because L-Elf have more story than Haruto.. the writer need to balance Haruto's character in the future.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Thess

Actually, it's not said Haruto's the founder of the Empire. Saki merely spoke of the the founder to them (the kamitsuki) but never made any mention the Prince is related to him, he was never brought as a relative or ancestor. He could found a kamitsuki order to protect the Empire which seems to be more or less Saki and Satomi roles in the future: caretakers of the royal family. Like the opposite to the Magius who use the politicians and world powers to hide, just speculation. Haruto has zero leadership skills and most of the New Jior ministers were waiting and obeying L-Elf's orders.

It's entirely possible, Haruto helps L-Elf to build an empire where magius, kamitsuki and humans can co-exist like Lieselotte wanted when he tells him her goal. Just two cents.

When the prince question that did the Empire began on the Earth, Saki corrected him saying that it began on the Module. The topic is on the beginning of the "Empire" and the "founder", with the culture seeming resemble the Kamitsuki seeing as the building has the Valvrave's symbol. As Haruto is the first Valvrave pilot of the Module, he have saw the "Magius" in the battle in ep 12 of S1 and with Haruto being the protag, everything led to Haruto being the founder of the Empire. L-elf has a chance but being the non-protag he is, he will taking too much spot away from the real protag.

Originally Posted by Kurohane

L-elf is the deuteragonist.

Still not the protag like Haruto , unless they are putting a Gundam Seed Destiny and flip L-elf's and Haruto's position(I hope it does happened, L-elf will be much more fit for a Emperor role but since he not a kamitsuki the odds are against him). But as the prince is a human and not a kamitsuki, also seeing Haruto being the usual useless-no-good protag he is, he probably handed his "Empire" to someone who much more capable(L-elf).

Originally Posted by Thess

Nothing was said the Founder Saki was speaking about is of the Empire. She's talking about the kamitsuki and the kid didn't include himself as kamitsuki last flashback.

Secondly, it's been said time and time again, Haruto and L-Elf are dual main characters of Valvrave by Sunrise staff (including Oukouchi). Mecha pilots hardly start empires, they fight for, you know, leaders who seem to be the kind of relationship Haruto has with L-Elf. L-Elf's the one generally handing out orders.

The Empire did begin in the module... which is where L-Elf lives and considers his "country". Neither Haruto or L-Elf were born there. L-Elf's been in Jior profile of the side of things for ages.

L-Elf met the "Magius" for first time in that episode, but again I wouldn't be sure that founder is related to the Empire itself. I would think Saki would consider L-Elf saw them as companions after he bothered to leave behind a letter to her and her Valvrave while Haruto didn't even leave a sticky note.

Well since you already make up your mind there no point arguing .

[bones]

Considering how confessions seem to be automatic death flags and the scriptwriter's hatred of childhood friend romance, that won't end well for Shoko.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

When the prince question that did the Empire began on the Earth, Saki corrected him saying that it began on the Module. The topic is on the beginning of the "Empire" and the "founder", with the culture seeming resemble the Kamitsuki seeing as the building has the Valvrave's symbol. As Haruto is the first Valvrave pilot of the Module, he have saw the "Magius" in the battle in ep 12 of S1 and with Haruto being the protag, everything led to Haruto being the founder of the Empire. L-elf has a chance but being the non-protag he is, he will taking too much spot away from the real protag.

L-elf is the deuteragonist.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

When the prince question that did the Empire began on the Earth, Saki corrected him saying that it began on the Module. The topic is on the beginning of the "Empire" and the "founder", with the culture seeming resemble the Kamitsuki seeing as the building has the Valvrave's symbol. As Haruto is the first Valvrave pilot of the Module, he have saw the "Magius" in the battle in ep 12 of S1 and with Haruto being the protag, everything led to Haruto being the founder of the Empire. L-elf has a chance but being the non-protag he is, he will taking too much spot away from the real protag.

Nothing was said the Founder Saki was speaking about is of the Empire. She's talking about the kamitsuki and the kid didn't include himself as kamitsuki last flashback.

Secondly, it's been said time and time again, Haruto and L-Elf are dual main characters of Valvrave by Sunrise staff (including Oukouchi). Mecha pilots hardly start empires, they fight for, you know, leaders who seem to be the kind of relationship Haruto has with L-Elf. L-Elf's the one generally handing out orders.

The Empire did begin in the module... which is where L-Elf lives and considers his "country". Neither Haruto or L-Elf were born there. L-Elf's been in Jior profile of the side of things for ages.

L-Elf met the "Magius" for first time in that episode, but again I wouldn't be sure that founder is related to the Empire itself. I would think Saki would consider L-Elf saw them as companions after he bothered to leave behind a letter to her and her Valvrave while Haruto didn't even leave a sticky note.

Originally Posted by bones

Considering how confessions seem to be automatic death flags and the scriptwriter's hatred of childhood friend romance, that won't end well for Shoko.

Code Geass ended with neither of the two main male characters hooking up. Just a tip.

Of course, the one who starts the Empire could be Shoko rather than Haruto or L-Elf. I'll believe that more realistic than Haruto.

[Faerie]

Kurohane agreed, they should all be worried though, not just Haruto. But since none of them are, it's a bit unfair to be mad at Haruto alone. I can understand (though I don't really agree with) people's feelings though, if they're looking at it from Saki's angle.

I also agree that he would be using Lise's death as a crutch to get over himself and that's not great. That's why I hate character deaths for development, it's just so extremely cheap and an excuse for not having to think about how further them. And they're getting a doubly cheap 2-in-1 development deal with this one. Lazy. Hence why I didn't find this episode as enjoyable as it could've been.

Originally Posted by charago

When Liz told Haruto about what is magius, it just come to my mind that Magius is like the alien in The Host novel..just telling, don't mind it.

Oh, nice catch. I read that novel a long time ago when I had some delusional hope Meyer couldn't possibly be as bad of an author as Twilight suggests (She is, surprisingly. Didn't know anyone could be this bad at something).

The Host was surprisingly tolerable to read though, and you're right, Magius are very similar to those aliens- down to them all not being very nice people with the exception of one and Lise being a better version of the alien girl- can't remember her name. Shame that Lise didn't get the ending she did

[Sakuratsuki]

I don't know why but i have mixed feelings about this episode. Poor liselotte, I said it last week, they will kill her......sigh......

And please Haruto stop with that I'am a monster thing for once. it's getting really irritating.

Edit: about Saki, yes indeed L-ELF left her a note. But, nobody talked about her this whole episode. It was a bit weird? maybe next episode will clear things up for us. But can't help to think it's a little weird? I'm not saying this because I'm a shipper of Saki or something. But how Saki was left behind like that was a bit sad. And about shoko x Haruto. I saw that coming a long time ago (from season 1). I think it is only that stupid reason of Haruto that stands in the way 'because i'am a monster', that he can't confess. I think it is a very cheap reason. But really from the start didn't expect much about the romance in this anime.

I don''t think that saki is in that oxygen tent. Let's not forget that A-drei wanted to ask her a question. And we don't know if A-drei is still following Cain. Because after the dead of H-neun, he acted different towards Cain. So I don't think it's Saki.

EDIT: To me it feels like the creators of this anime used/abused Saki for some cheap romance devolpment and rape (drama). And after that in the second season they throw her away like garbage. Although she looks fine in the future.

[Chibikiwi]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Kurohane agreed, they should all be worried though, not just Haruto. But since none of them are, it's a bit unfair to be mad at Haruto alone. I can understand (though I don't really agree with) people's feelings though, if they're looking at it from Saki's angle.

I'm not blaming Haruto, but just found it sad that he wasn't worried mostly because isn't he the closest person to Saki? Because he seemed to be the person she talked with the most.(Of course I'm not saying Haruto feels that way but I think Saki did) Makes me feel like she is really lonely
That's probably also why people are mad at him instead of the others too.

Quick question: Did Lise say that the council is made up of influential humans and the magius? (Meaning there are humans among them like the President of ARUS or is the council only the magius?)

[Allium]

Well, Lieselotte's death was expected, though I didn't expect death-by-rune-drainage again. It was anticipated, but I didn't like how the show just used her as a Magius infodump device and a shuttle propeller. Poor L-elf - for all his efforts, obviously he'll be the most affected by her death. I'm starting to like his character more and more, and he was rather heroic this episode.

Kinda disappointed that there wasn't much from Saki's side. Or even Shouko's (what about the Magius space bus?) - I was actually surprised and relieved that Shouko and Haruto showed up in the preview, glad to know that they will reunite.

The ED sequence is pretty ominous with Haruto's helmet floating in space at the end; it seems to suggest that Haruto will likely die, and maybe even L-elf? The song itself is fine, though it can't match the previous three ED themes.

[finalfury]

Saki's one of their main fighters on the team. It just seems downright insulting that no one even takes 30 freakin seconds to make a comment about Saki. Zessica 2.0 stuff right here. :/

Body language 101 tells me he's having a somewhat casual conversation with Shouko (not much tension in their facial features anyway) and with your best man down, 1 of your fighters MIA, a more accurate idea of the enemy you're facing, I would think he would be fully invested in battle plans with only bathroom, sleeping, and eating breaks.

I feel like he's too oblivious of his situation and imo his reasons for fighting aren't very reasonable but more like emotionally induced. Shouko watched her childhood friend kill her father, Saki is/will be a tragic heroine, L-elf lost his reason to live, Kyuma lost the person he loved, Akira dealt with bullying along with rejection from her brother before, Thunder lost one of his nakama brethren.

Someone tell me what Haruto dealt with aside from mental anguish at the curse, his father, and not being with Shouko cause I got nuthin. :C