(L+CR) Golden Time

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by musouka

I think what you have to keep in mind is that what we're getting from Banri and Linda are situations they've already went through. Yes, there's no comparing an established relationship with one that's just beginning, but the flashbacks aren't connected with Banri as he is now in any meaningful way (yet?). They're set up as parallels or contrasts to the relationship he's in with Kouko.

I agree with that. The development with Linda that we saw more or less all happened in the past. Their current relationship is kind of strange, especially because Linda holds the key, as she's the one knowing all the details of the past and only opens up a little bit when Banri's asking her (well, that's until this episode - it will be curious to see what ghost Banri does).

In fact, one of the parts I liked most about this episode was an odd little echo, for lack of a better term. One of the things Kouko asks Banri is "will you be with me forever", which is then "answered" by Banri in the past--except he's speaking to a totally different girl! That tells me that Banri has that capability, but as long as he insists upon being incomplete and running for his past, he'll never be able to achieve that with Kouko (or Linda, if you prefer).

That's quite an interesting view here. I wonder how the story in this regard will be handled.

[mangatron]

Images

Nyantype LEGGY KOKO

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[NoemiChan]

Her skin needs more life....

[l.kostas]

Originally Posted by mangatron

Dress shirt Kaga-chan!!!!!

Here are some goodies they will give with some special editions of the DVD/BDs:
http://golden-time.jp/bddvd/tokuten.html

[-Sho-]

Meh not a fan with dat ghost banri & memories loss + back after... that drama plot is boring.

[Kaoru Chujo]

The ghost taking over frustrates me. There is so much more that "new Banri" has to do, to understand his past and his present.

I felt that in the flashbacks, there was too much of the more decisive new Banri, and the character did not really seem like "old Banri."

I kept wishing that new Banri would repeat "I love you" to Kouko (he did say it once). So far, we have been shown an objectionably wimpy old Banri who knew he was in love and had good reason; and a positive new Banri who fell in love with Kouko out of lust and pity and has not yet developed his relationship. We need the full 24/26 episodes, lol.

But I still like the show.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

So far, we have been shown an objectionably wimpy old Banri who knew he was in love and had good reason; and a positive new Banri who fell in love with Kouko out of lust and pity and has not yet developed his relationship.

Actually, the basis of Banri's relationship with Kouko and the basis of pre-amensia Banri's relationship with Linda aren't as different as you'd think. If this episode is to believe, both Banris ended up falling for the girls in question after seeing their vulnerable sides. As Banri said in the first episode, he's the type of person that wants to devote himself to someone. (BTW, Kouko is the same way, where I think the concept sort of scares Linda...)

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

..... positive new Banri who fell in love with Kouko out of lust and pity and has not yet developed his relationship.....

No, ya da, no, no, no, I agree with pity, but lust? yadda!!!! >_<

Banri liked Koko, first because she's pretty, second, out of pity and third, after spending a lot of time with her, fell in love with her personality.

[Anh_Minh]

I know it's not his fault, but I was starting to really hate amnesiac Banri. It was heartbreaking to see Linda just... give up on everything and give it to Koko.

And then, this happened. So I'm getting ready to hate ghost Banri.

[AmeNoJaku]

I don't think we should take the "possession" by the "ghost" Banri too seriously. Probably the original volume was ending at that point, and the writer wanted a cliffhanger for the next volume. In any case, it's not like she bothered to give any depth to the Kouko/Banri relationship. The last arc was spent on the rest of the cast, including "ghost" Banri and Linda... obviously she wanted to work more with that couple at the time instead of Kouko/Banri.

The bottomline is that it's silly enough to keep watching

[com_gwp]

Can someone explain to me the irrational hate for "ghost" Banri? I really don't understand why he gets so much shit.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

Can someone explain to me the irrational hate for "ghost" Banri? I really don't understand why he gets so much shit.

I think it's because you could say he's literally stuck in the past and is preventing Banri from moving on with his life, and his interference is inevitably going to cause a giant mess with both Linda and Kouko. People might also be annoyed by the fact that his former self was sort of whiny and indecisive, and it's (partly) as a result of that that things got messed up in the first place.

If I put my prognosticator hat on (absolutely no familiarity with the source), I'm going to suppose that this cour is going to end with either a) someone catching Banri "cheating" with Linda and Kouko finding out (to sort of mirror what happened in the past), b) Kouko seeing Banri kissing Linda, or c) the inevitable breakup of Kouko and Banri one way or another. Then we'll be off for a two-week holiday break to let that simmer and come back in the new year to start over (with a new OP). Cruelty!

(I will also say that the series composition for this show is really excellent. They make good use of each episode's 24-minute time span, and make sure each episode ends on a hook or a cliffhanger. The lead writer has good credentials for this sort of thing, though, so not too surprised.)

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think it's because you could say he's literally stuck in the past and is preventing Banri from moving on with his life, and his interference is inevitably going to cause a giant mess with both Linda and Kouko. People might also be annoyed by the fact that his former self was sort of whiny and indecisive, and it's (partly) as a result of that that things got messed up in the first place.

If I put my prognosticator hat on (absolutely no familiarity with the source), I'm going to suppose that this cour is going to end with either a) someone catching Banri "cheating" with Linda and Kouko finding out (to sort of mirror what happened in the past), b) Kouko seeing Banri kissing Linda, or c) the inevitable breakup of Kouko and Banri one way or another. Then we'll be off for a two-week holiday break to let that simmer and come back in the new year to start over (with a new OP). Cruelty!

(I will also say that the series composition for this show is really excellent. They may good use of each episode's 24-minute time span, and make sure each episode ends on a hook or a cliffhanger. The lead writer has good credentials for this sort of thing, though, so not too surprised.)

the bold part is exactly what i think, if ghost banri dont started to appear all the things will be fine, linda alread give up in banri for koko, current banri alread in love with koko and i really doubt who the current one have any feelings or want go back to linda, but now since the ghost despairingly want the "past back" probabily he gonna mess with both girls running to linda and reopen all the closed wounds inside her make her confuse again and "cheating" at koko and breaking her heart and at same time breaking the other banri heart, since tecnically we have 2 banris(or personalities).

basically ghost banri will be the plot device to create all the drama around banri, linda and koko.

[erneiz_hyde]

I think a ghost appearing at all within this work's initial premises is kinda reason enough. It's weird. It may be handled properly later, but it's still weird as hell. As if convenient amnesia isn't enough weirdness for a whole series. Actually, now that I think about it, nothing about this show is 'normal'.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

the bold part is exactly what i think, if ghost banri dont started to appear all the things will be fine, linda alread give up in banri for koko, current banri alread in love with koko and i really doubt who the current one have any feelings or want go back to linda, but now since the ghost despairingly want the "past back" probabily he gonna mess with both girls running to linda and reopen all the closed wounds inside her make her confuse again and "cheating" at koko and breaking her heart and at same time breaking the other banri heart, since tecnically we have 2 banris(or personalities).

basically ghost banri will be the plot device to create all the drama around banri, linda and koko.

I kind of agree, but... I think that current-day Banri wouldn't be able to leave the past alone anyway, even without the "ghost". On the one hand he says he wants to throw everything away, but on the other he's constantly curious. You could say "his past is catching up to him". The ghost is just a way of manifesting his curiosity and letting it take form, since the memories are actually inside of his head anyway. (In other words: There really is no "ghost". It's just a manifestation of Banri's buried subconscious for our sake.) Of course, it will cause a big mess.

In the end, the big issue for the rest of the show is basically the "Third" Banri that will result when he gets his past memories back, comes to terms with them, but realizes that he can't live in the past and still needs to accept the present. Banri's real future is going to start once he's whole, and I think it's at that point that he's going to fall in love with Kouko all over again (and finally be able to move on). This whole conflict is the only way for both of them to finally shed all their masks and encounter each other's true selves.

(Earlier in the show they presented a false dichotomy when Kouko asked him if he wanted to remember the past, and he said he didn't because he thought his current self would disappear (it'd be like dying twice). Then in the previous episode he asks Linda if she wants to go back, and he says that he does... and it's in light of that that Kouko is worried: that if he goes back his present self will disappear (along with his feelings for her). But the whole logic here is wrong. There aren't really two Banris, just one.)

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I kind of agree, but... I think that current-day Banri wouldn't be able to leave the past alone anyway, even without the "ghost". On the one hand he says he wants to throw everything away, but on the other he's constantly curious. You could say "his past is catching up to him". The ghost is just a way of manifesting his curiosity and letting it take form, since the memories are actually inside of his head anyway. (In other words: There really is no "ghost". It's just a manifestation of Banri's buried subconscious for our sake.) Of course, it will cause a big mess.

In the end, the big issue for the rest of the show is basically the "Third" Banri that will result when he gets his past memories back, comes to terms with them, but realizes that he can't live in the past and still needs to accept the present. Banri's real future is going to start once he's whole, and I think it's at that point that he's going to fall in love with Kouko all over again (and finally be able to move on). This whole conflict is the only way for both of them to finally shed all their masks and encounter each other's true selves.

(Earlier in the show they presented a false dichotomy when Kouko asked him if he wanted to remember the past, and he said he didn't because he thought his current self would disappear (it'd be like dying twice). Then in the previous episode he asks Linda if she wants to go back, and he says that he does... and it's in light of that that Kouko is worried: that if he goes back his present self will disappear (along with his feelings for her). But the whole logic here is wrong. There aren't really two Banris, just one.)

yeah i know what you are saying and agree with the most but the bold part, whgen he told this to linda this already was his "pastself(ghost) taking over him, after he say who he want, he current self awaken and he acted like he not was aware about what he told(since was his other side), his current self really dont want the past back, however this is something inevitable and sooner or later will come back.

his past already start to break out inside of his mind and the big climax probably be the clash between both past and present like you said he need make both of his side get along and he can move foward, he can't live without a past but also he can't live trapped in past.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

yeah i know what you are saying and agree with the most but the bold part, whgen he told this to linda this already was his "pastself(ghost) taking over him, after he say who he want, he current self awaken and he acted like he not was aware about what he told(since was his other side), his current self really dont want the past back, however this is something inevitable and sooner or later will come back.

Yup, I know, but if you follow the "there's only one Banri" view, then it's sort of semantics. As you say, it was inevitable anyway; there's a part of him (conscious or not) that wants to go back. That's why he can't stop his longing and curiosity, and does find himself drawn to Linda (even in the present) despite being in love with Kouko. Doing it that way was just to foreshadow what actually transpired at the end of this past episode.

But that aside, the other half of that particular scene (in ep. 8) was more interesting: it was the tell that Linda lied twice. She acts like she didn't hear him and implied that he's tired and might say things he shouldn't... which is the exact same reason she told Banri that she was going to reject him in the past. (The camera focus on her gestures while she was about to say this was the main tell.) That's why this recent episode developed her "I'm just going to act like an adult and pretend I didn't see/hear anything" backstory. It's been her coping mechanism all along, even now that Banri isn't actually there to support her as his "past self" promised he would be.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Actually, now that I think about it, nothing about this show is 'normal'.

You just realize it now?

Storywise, I think this show is as weird as Valvrave, but since Golden Time is not an action-mecha anime, it's a lot less over-the-top (but still weird).

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I felt that in the flashbacks, there was too much of the more decisive new Banri, and the character did not really seem like "old Banri."

But I still like the show.

I keep saying over and over, I think this gulf between the new and old Banri is an artificial construction of Banri's own making, to explain away all he feels is wrong with his life. I think the reason the character in the flashback seems like the new Banri instead of the old Banri is because they're the same person.

Of course, in the end Ghost Banri may be real and the author may be taking the story in an entirely different direction. I think it'd have a hell of a lot less impact that way, personally.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I keep saying over and over, I think this gulf between the new and old Banri is an artificial construction of Banri's own making, to explain away all he feels is wrong with his life. I think the reason the character in the flashback seems like the new Banri instead of the old Banri is because they're the same person.

Personally, I'd call it more a "manifestation" than a "construction". I don't really see much evidence that he's projecting the negative sides of himself onto his past self, because frankly his present self doesn't remember what happened. But I do think he made a conscious decision to close the door to his past (feeling that without his memories he could never be who people expect him to be), though he's finding himself increasingly drawn to the past anyway. I do agree completely that both "Banris" are one and the same, for the reasons I explained above.

"Real Banri" decides he's closing the door to his past, which is why "Ghost Banri" can do nothing but look on and try to give him space. But the more that Real Banri opens his mind/heart to the past, the more room there is for "Ghost Banri" to come to the surface. It's just a sign that Real Banri has been pushing his past away from him, and "Ghost Banri" can really do nothing except walk through the door "Real Banri" opens.

Spoiler for Comparison to Tasogare Otome x Amnesia:

I think of it like "Shadow Yuuko" vs. "Yuuko". They're both just sides of the same coin, but for various reasons they've kept a wall between them, despite being inseparable.