Valvrave the Liberator - Character Discussion - Sashinami Shouko

[RobotCat]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

To be honest...he started the whole thing not telling anyone about the Phantom

Which may explain why that ship had zero security...you'd think a few VVVs would at least be guarding it

He also made matters worse by basically admitting the Phantom was his 'doing'. The one thing he's able to mutter just makes him look more guilty.

[Cosmic Eagle]

You and me both.

I'm really interested to see how Shoko is handled from this point. Guilt is a given. I wondering how they'll redeem her. Please just don't pair her up with Haruto and sell that as her redemption. "Look, she loves him for who he is. Now all is forgiven k, bye!"
__________________

Via sudden return to character most likely


It's like....Forcing a character to be completely OOC one moment, and normal the next.

Like Shu but at least Shu still made sense somewhat since he was never as innocent as Shouko.


Maybe not like that but you see how abruptly they forced this ep. The solution could be just as abrupt


Unless we get S3...Maybe this is actually a plan for S3

Otaku love character bashing and hatred

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Via sudden return to character most likely


It's like....Forcing a character to be completely OOC one moment, and normal the next.

Like Shu but at least Shu still made sense somewhat since he was never as innocent as Shouko.

That's very true. But with Shoko, she should feel it. Same with the students who turned their backs on the pilots. Some tears aren't gonna bring Kyuuma back. I'm sorry's aren't gonna make people forget you threw the very people fighting to protect you under the bus.

Now a third season would help rebuild Shoko. But like you said I got this feeling that the resolution is gonna feel forced. Perhaps, she redeems herself only to die afterwards.

[whitecloud]

Hmm....is there any character in the history of sunrise franchise that is similar?

[Irenesharda]

Again, as I said on the main thread, I really wasn't surprised at Shoko's response and I was expecting it. She's been more subdued this season compared to last, and I expected something more tragic from her than out-of-the box.

Seeing how much Shoko had to deal with this episode, I can see why she made the decision she did.
We'll have to see in the continuing episodes how this pans out for her.

Haruto still loves her after all this (and no, I think he was pretty convicted in that statement and he wasn't just saying what Kyuma want to hear. Because really, Kyuma already knew the answer, he just wanted Haruto to finally admit it to himself) and while I still have a feeling Haruto's going to die at the end of this, he could very well be like L-elf and be a one-girl-in-a-lifetime kind of guy, and never love anyone else.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Again, as I said on the main thread, I really wasn't surprised at Shoko's response and I was expecting it. She's been more subdued this season compared to last, and I expected something more tragic from her than out-of-the box.

Seeing how much Shoko had to deal with this episode, I can see why she made the decision she did.
We'll have to see in the continuing episodes how this pans out for her.

Haruto still loves her after all this (and no, I think he was pretty convicted in that statement and he wasn't just saying what Kyuma want to hear. Because really, Kyuma already knew the answer, he just wanted Haruto to finally admit it to himself) and while I still have a feeling Haruto's going to die at the end of this, he could very well be like L-elf and be a one-girl-in-a-lifetime kind of guy, and never love anyone else.

More than likely. If they even try to say Haruto suddenly has feelings for Saki then I would be insulted at this point.

As for Shoko, as I said before I understand where she was coming from. Maybe, I'm more upset about one of my favorite characters dying.

[LightDragonman]

Course, he could just be moving on from his feelings for Shouko, what with her betrayal and realizing that there are bigger things at stake now.

Sort of like how L-Elf needs to accept Lise's death and the like and move on.

[MeggieMay]

While I'm going to have to watch this episode tomorrow (I'm having a bad week as it is, even before the CR mess, and I think I'm getting sick on top of everything else), I do have two thoughts. One, the other students may not see this way the audience see it. In other words, they may not see it as Shouko throwing them under a bus. Some will and I think one of them will be Shouko. However, it sounds like another faction was pushing for this and they may not come completely to their senses with Kyuma dying So while I think Shouko is going to fall out of power over this (and really, without L Elf she really wasn't a great leader - that was kind of a given in my mind), I think the fellow student reprisals are getting a bit overstated here. She should get some bad ones but the discussions are starting to get a bit more extreme than I think it really will get.

Second, mattering on how self loathing Shouko gets in the next few episodes (I'm actually not sure we'll get back to her next episode - they could easily just cover the Haruto/L Elf Saki/A Drei/X Ein side of things for the most part next week), she may do something totally nutso. Keep in mind,

Spoiler for speculation:

if Haruto's Valvrave is actually on a shuttle then she might decided to take off with it. It also could be Satmoi, seeing it's hinted he's a pilot in the future, but that would almost be the expected thing and the show has kind of tried not to go there with that (doing the expected).

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by LightDragonman

Course, he could just be moving on from his feelings for Shouko, what with her betrayal and realizing that there are bigger things at stake now.

Sort of like how L-Elf needs to accept Lise's death and the like and move on.

I doubt so on either case. Haruto has clearly said that he will always love Shoko, and that was even after her bad decision. He's not going to fall for Saki, and there's no other girls for him, so yeah....

L-elf I think is going to accept Lise's death, but he's never going to stop loving her. Also, since his whole thing is not giving half your heart to a girl, I have a feeling that he'll never love another either. It hurt too much to give someone that sort of emotional power over him the first time. He's the type to not do something like that again.

[DevilHighDxD]

If Shoko does want to pilot the Valvrave, I sincerely hoped that she open her eye wide at the resignation of human contact.

[finalfury]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I doubt so on either case. Haruto has clearly said that he will always love Shoko, and that was even after her bad decision. He's not going to fall for Saki, and there's no other girls for him, so yeah....

L-elf I think is going to accept Lise's death, but he's never going to stop loving her. Also, since his whole thing is not giving half your heart to a girl, I have a feeling that he'll never love another either. It hurt too much to give someone that sort of emotional power over him the first time. He's the type to not do something like that again.

As Triple R said, it is likely that when he said he currently loves Shoko, he said that for Inuzuka senpai's well-being(?). :/
It's also likely that when he initially said that he loved her, that was a Chekhov's Gun and the subsequent sentences were used as foreshadowing to divert the attention from the Chekhov's Gun.

[whitecloud]

I guess her redemption maybe by going out with a big bang like marie

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by finalfury

As Triple R said, it is likely that when he said he currently loves Shoko, he said that for Inuzuka senpai's well-being(?). :/
It's also likely that when he initially said that he loved her, that was a Chekhov's Gun and the subsequent sentences were used as foreshadowing to divert the attention from the Chekhov's Gun.

I don't agree with that. To me, it sounded like he was thinking and overwhelmed about all that happened when he said "he loved her", but then re-thought things and said with conviction, that "no, he still loved her and always would". Kyuma knew what had gone down between them, and yet he knew both Shoko and Haruto so well, that he would not allow this new obstacle to come between them again. He knew that Haruto in spite of everything, would still love Shoko, that's why he made him say it out loud. He wanted Haruto to admit it to himself.

Also, Haruto didn't sound like a guy giving his friend a last minute of happiness before he died. That would imply that he had already accepted his friend's death. Haruto obviously was entirely against Kyuma sacrificing his life and was utterly horrified and shattered by his death. Haruto will always hope to the last, and he didn't want his friend to die.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

If Shoko does want to pilot the Valvrave, I sincerely hoped that she open her eye wide at the resignation of human contact.

How many more VVVs are left again? Other than Cain's

[alluka]

Why does Sunrise hate female characters? Saki got her share in S1, now it's Shoko's turn and this time, it's her character that got completely raped.
First of all, she would NEVER abandon someone in need even when her own life is in danger. She showed it in the very first episode by saving Kibukawa and Akira later in ep 12. She would never sell her citizen, first line of defense, childhood friend and crush to an ENEMY.

Secondly, she isn't stupid enough to give them to the ones who tried to steal them in S1 and, you know.. just MASSACRED A WHOLE BUNCH OF HER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF HER EYES!! What's with that? She already know that politic world is cruel, she said it in ep 13: "People are so nice, but countries are on a different level. They're merciless". She even witnessed their cruelty in live with the execution of her father. Why did they make her go full retard just because muh cave memories? and why was that cave flashback so hilarious? It was pulled out of nowhere

This episode was painful, and it's not only because of the bullshit shoko pulled, but since this is a shoko thread I'll leave it at that. I'm not even looking forward to the next episode like every week, her blunder will just be swept under the rug, just like Saki's rape, and she'll go back to being an irrelevant character like she had been for the entire S2.

I really want to know what was Okouchi smoking when he wrote this episode, we get that you want your lulu/suzaku to steal the show, but don't do it at the expense of another established character.

It's at times like these where I'm glad I didn't watch Guilty Crown, a combinaison of okouchi and yoshino should be disastrous.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

How many more VVVs are left again? Other than Cain's

The Valvrave's can be shared between multiple pilots. However, I do think we might get more Valvraves in the future.

Originally Posted by alluka

Why does Sunrise hate female characters? Saki got her share in S1, now it's Shoko's turn and this time, it's her character that got completely raped.
First of all, she would NEVER abandon someone in need even when her own life is in danger. She showed it in the very first episode by saving Kibukawa and Akira later in ep 12. She would never sell her citizen, first line of defense, childhood friend and crush to an ENEMY.

Secondly, she isn't stupid enough to give them to the ones who tried to steal them in S1 and, you know.. just MASSACRED A WHOLE BUNCH OF HER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF HER EYES!! What's with that? She already know that politic world is cruel, she said it in ep 13: "People are so nice, but countries are on a different level. They're merciless". She even witnessed their cruelty in live with the execution of her father. Why did they make her go full retard just because muh cave memories? and why was that cave flashback so hilarious? It was pulled out of nowhere

This episode was painful, and it's not only because of the bullshit shoko pulled, but since this is a shoko thread I'll leave it at that. I'm not even looking forward to the next episode like every week, her blunder will just be swept under the rug, just like Saki's rape, and she'll go back to being an irrelevant character like she had been for the entire S2.

I really want to know what was Okouchi smoking when he wrote this episode, we get that you want your lulu/suzaku to steal the show, but don't do it at the expense of another established character.

It's at times like these where I'm glad I didn't watch Guilty Crown, a combinaison of okouchi and yoshino should be disastrous.

The fact that Shoko would never sacrifice anyone was the point of the scene. She wasn't willing to sacrifice the lives of what was left of the students for one person, even if that person was Haruto. And while Shoko is smart, she's always been naive, just as Haruto is. She trust way to easily and has never had to face a double cross like this before. That kind of judgement is learned through experience and time, which Shoko has had none. Shoko is a good leader for a school, but not a country at war. That was why her reassurance when she was saying that they will all pull through this, sounded hollow. Shoko was actually leaning towards giving into the Dorssian's demands when her father was held prisoner, that's why L-elf was prepared to kill her. There's a reason that he's behind the military aspect and he just let's Shoko be the face of everything. He's basically Neo JIOR's second in command and he does all the work and makes all the heavy judgments. Shoko was out of her depth here, AND she was emotionally distraught.

And to be fair, Sunrise still has some pretty good female characters. I like Shoko and Saki, and I still do. CC was pretty cool, and Sayla is my all time favorite Sunrise mecha female character. A princess, a warrior, AND a Gundam pilot? Best girl ever.

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Via sudden return to character most likely

It's like....Forcing a character to be completely OOC one moment, and normal the next.

What OOC-ness? Shouko had gone through enough pressure to be a slightly different person from S1 and flashback Shoukos. If anything, this event will just change her further (those Shouko idolizing flashbacks can end up being just a build-up to make a characetr change more shocking).

The cow-like mechas from 200 years later (cows/bulls are her favorite symbol), the fact that she is currently the only remaining Love Interest for L-11 (who is definitely the ancestor of that Prince), the Third Galactic Reich being highly hinted to be successor state of New Jior... I am now even more sure she is going to become a less nice person (and Saki fighting those cow-headed mechas doesn't help), at least on long roads. Haruto's Valvrave being in the shuttle may also end in her becoming a Valpire.

Secondly, she isn't stupid enough to give them to the ones who tried to steal them in S1 and, you know.. just MASSACRED A WHOLE BUNCH OF HER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF HER EYES!! What's with that? She already know that politic world is cruel, she said it in ep 13: "People are so nice, but countries are on a different level. They're merciless". She even witnessed their cruelty in live with the execution of her father. Why did they make her go full retard just because muh cave memories?

Emotions seem to have taken a better of her and she didn't really have time to think it all through. ARUS made an offer and she knew they would not wait forever. It is easy to think about what to do when you watch it on your monitor, but when you are there... well, it gets harder to think. L-11 would have made a better decision, but she is far from his level.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

The cow-like mechas from 200 years later (cows/bulls are her favorite symbol), the fact that she is currently the only remaining Love Interest for L-11 (who is definitely the ancestor of that Prince), the Third Galactic Reich being highly hinted to be successor state of New Jior... I am now even more sure she is going to become a less nice person (and Saki fighting those cow-headed mechas doesn't help), at least on long roads. Haruto's Valvrave being in the shuttle may also end in her becoming a Valpire.

If Saki is fighting her Empire while taking care of mini-Elf who is her descendent and she is still immortal and alive as you say, then how did that kid fall into Saki's hands?

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

If Saki is fighting her Empire while taking care of mini-Elf who is her descendent and she is still immortal and alive as you say, then how did that kid fall into Saki's hands?

Stole him away from the Empire?

Not sure Shoko and L-Elf are a part of the Evil Empire. In my opinion the cow thing was just to throw people off and the Empire trolling the empire Shoko, L-Elf, and Haruto make.

[dragon1412]

actually, beside Shoko, i can't think of any sane person who would actually choose that design for a cutting-edge mecha.