Log Horizon - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by monir

When was that established? Refresh my memory, please.

Its not been stressed out on the first episode or not been shown out at all. But in the manga. there was a small event before the clock ticks 12:00 or rather before the whole update and log in on ET.

Spoiler:

But the part where Shiroe was investigating the settings, his surroundings and the feeling of his surrounding. Its happening when he arrive in elder tales and up to meeting with naotsugu and concluding it after they met that "its real" and even after the episode ended. In the preview of the next episode. Shiroe always say that "this is our reality" heck, I think he also said that in episode 1.

Aside from body disappearance and body becoming real plus following the pre-made character in ET. Can you even suggest that as something like sci-fi genre? plus it happen world wide. It didn't just happen like in one part of the country with only 10000 people. it happen in millions around the world. I think even a world class terrorist group won't be able to hide their bodies around for a long time without being find. Unless you go "fantasy" setting on explaining their disappearance.

Originally Posted by hamazura

how you say this all mighty is irritating me lol
if u read SAO light novel until the last arc, this elder tale still being a virtual game IS possible

if your talking about Alicization then please explain how will they maintain millions of people? this is not one gary sue person being maintain in a virtual world. Oh please. Unless they go matrix on the world but even that are just consciousness diving into the virtual world.

Plus next episode would actually explain the "whole body in the game/world" is important. That makes a huge difference on what's happening.

[monir]

Originally Posted by aohige

Imagine some massive world-wide entity deciding to suddenly kidnap everyone logged on to World of Warcraft on the exact same time around the globe, strapping them to a virtual machine somehow created to simulate the world of Azeroth perfectly. This ridiculous notion was actually dismissed by Shiroe in the very first volume, but his monologues have been all but cut in the anime since that would be a boring first episode.

For this to be even conceived as an man-made virtual world, it would have to involve aliens or supernatural deities. Or time travelers and/or Matrix backdrop.
And at that point, it's kinda moot to even consider this not being an actual magical world, no?
It's Haruhi level of madness.

Point taken. However, let me ask you this,.... how is alternate universe scenario is any less "Haruhi level of madness" than a virtual copy? For me, I'm not yet ready to dismiss any theories yet considering every theory requires a significant stretch of the imagination to accept that world.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by monir

Point taken. However, let me ask you this,.... how is alternate universe scenario is any less "Haruhi level of madness" than a virtual copy? For me, I'm not yet ready to dismiss any theories yet considering every theory requires a significant stretch of the imagination to accept that world.

Occam's razor. One world has the magic to explain the transportation, whereas there is no explanation whatsoever how the world could have become real from our end.

Doesn't prove the theory, but currently the evidence we have leans in favor of the alternate universe theory.

[WhiteJoker]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Aside from body disappearance and body becoming real plus following the pre-made character in ET. Can you even suggest that as something like sci-fi genre? plus it happen world wide. It didn't just happen like in one part of the country with only 10000 people. it happen in millions around the world. I think even a world class terrorist group won't be able to hide their bodies around for a long time without being find. Unless you go "fantasy" setting on explaining their disappearance.

Clarke's Third Law states that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. That relates to this in that if the best argument for the Catastrophe is "they got sucked into an alternate universe that happens to use video game overlays and MMO rules for it's laws of physics" then the equally ludicrous "there's a secret society using Elder Tales to create a perfect virtual world with AIs" is just as valid.

I think this discussion though needs to make a distinction between what the Adventurers think of the situation and what we, the viewers, think of it. To the Adventurers the issue is moot because they can do absolutely nothing about it so it isn't something they spend much time caring about; to them it's just another world. To us, the viewer, it does matter on the meta level because it informs how we view the actions of the characters and the world. In that sense I think Log Horizon should have stressed a little harder what we're talking about now.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by WhiteJoker

I think this discussion though needs to make a distinction between what the Adventurers think of the situation and what we, the viewers, think of it. To the Adventurers the issue is moot because they can do absolutely nothing about it so it isn't something they spend much time caring about; to them it's just another world. To us, the viewer, it does matter on the meta level because it informs how we view the actions of the characters and the world. In that sense I think Log Horizon should have stressed a little harder what we're talking about now.

A new thread for such discussion? is it possible to request for such thread? and true we are becoming off topic for the episode discussion because we are debating if the world is real or not.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by WhiteJoker

Clarke's Third Law states that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. That relates to this in that if the best argument for the Catastrophe is "they got sucked into an alternate universe that happens to use video game overlays and MMO rules for it's laws of physics" then the equally ludicrous "there's a secret society using Elder Tales to create a perfect virtual world with AIs" is just as valid.

Actually it's more like the MMO rules are being squeezed into the laws of physics.

I would say the laws of physics still come first, then the MMO rules come into play.

However as we learned from the cooking and other things, the MMO rules are getting a bit flimsy...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

However as we learned from the cooking and other things, the MMO rules are getting a bit flimsy...

A Trickster god botching up the job.

[WhiteJoker]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

A new thread for such discussion? is it possible to request for such thread? and true we are becoming off topic for the episode discussion because we are debating if the world is real or not.

I think we've exhausted the potential of that discussion at this point, though if we were to carry it on I imagine the novel thread or the speculation thread could be used for it since anything further would really just be referencing existing scenes from the mangas/novel and highlighting key points. The salient points of the conversation though have all been touched on I believe.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Actually it's more like the MMO rules are being squeezed into the laws of physics.

I would say the laws of physics still come first, then the MMO rules come into play.

However as we learned from the cooking and other things, the MMO rules are getting a bit flimsy...

I wasn't trying to give a nuanced summary of the exact circumstances, merely summarizing to highlight the departure from what we would call conventional reality. The basic point I was making is that no matter how you look at it, the reasoning for how things are the way they are requires so much fiction that it doesn't inform on which genre of fiction we're dealing with.

[monir]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

A new thread for such discussion? is it possible to request for such thread? and true we are becoming off topic for the episode discussion because we are debating if the world is real or not.

This is actually not a bad suggestion considering how interesting the discussion is and the potential for it as more and more information becomes available! Anyone has a title for what we should call this thread? Let me know, and I'll copy the relevant posts from this thread and make a new topic of discussion.

[Jinggo]

And WTH is noopsphere ? As far i know , every major update (expansion) in MMORPG , ussualy they will have a major quest . So i think if shiroe want to solve the mystery of ET world. He must find out what is noopsphere first ( novasphere ) sphere = is like an orb glowing thing right ? and what is the major quest of this expansion/update

[aohige]

Originally Posted by monir

Point taken. However, let me ask you this,.... how is alternate universe scenario is any less "Haruhi level of madness" than a virtual copy? For me, I'm not yet ready to dismiss any theories yet considering every theory requires a significant stretch of the imagination to accept that world.

It's not, that's the point.
By virtual world, if you mean by actual modern day human hands with no supernatural involved, then every evidence suggest otherwise. My point is, whatever the explanation is, it must be supernatural (or extremely advanced technology beyond the setting of the story) involved - whether it be collective consciousness of men through the internet (noosphere theory) or Haruhi-like reality warping deity, or extra-terrestrial technology.

SAO explanation simply is unfeasible, and this is confirmed by characters in-story.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by hamazura

how you say this all mighty is irritating me lol
if u read SAO light novel until the last arc, this elder tale still being a virtual game IS possible

Story takes place in 2018 and the way the manga portray life before the Catastrophe shows that technology have not progressed to the point of widespread virtual and augmented reality, let alone AI being nearly indistinguisable from human intelligence and computers able to manage them. Also Elder Tale IS your average keyboard, mouse and computer MMORPG.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by monir

This is actually not a bad suggestion considering how interesting the discussion is and the potential for it as more and more information becomes available! Anyone has a title for what we should call this thread? Let me know, and I'll copy the relevant posts from this thread and make a new topic of discussion.

Elder Tale world theories, speculation and discussion (spoilers)

In this thread we debate the world of Elder Tale. Where did it come from? Is it a real world? If not, who created it? Why? How did the players get caught up in this mix? How is the world changing after the Catastrophe?

Be it theories, wild speculation or facts, this is the thread for such debates.

Warning: Since it's virtually impossible to get into the nitty-gritty details without diving into the novels, this thread will contain heavy spoilers. Anime watchers, beware.

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Story takes place in 2018 and the way the manga portray life before the Catastrophe shows that technology have not progressed to the point of widespread virtual and augmented reality, let alone AI being nearly indistinguisable from human intelligence and computers able to manage them. Also Elder Tale IS your average keyboard, mouse and computer MMORPG.

ok, i respect ur opinion

my opinion
assuming they've developed super advanced technology in secret
there is elder tale big machine main server, inside are the world of elder tale, high intelligence AI, and monster. and then the developer extracted the player character and mind with only god knows how to do it. supernatural tech? possible.

Originally Posted by tsunade666

if your talking about Alicization then please explain how will they maintain millions of people? this is not one gary sue person being maintain in a virtual world. Oh please. Unless they go matrix on the world but even that are just consciousness diving into the virtual world.

Plus next episode would actually explain the "whole body in the game/world" is important. That makes a huge difference on what's happening.

yes im talking about project alicization.
who knows how to do it? it just my wild theory, maybe supernatural technology flying the soul of players into elder tale server?
maybe like //HACK?

no matter how i think about it, the closest guess is that this setting is similar to project alicization with some supernatural

[aohige]

Originally Posted by hamazura

ok, i respect ur opinion

my opinion
assuming they've developed super advanced technology in secret
there is elder tale big machine main server, inside are the world of elder tale, high intelligence AI, and monster. and then the developer extracted the player character and mind with only god knows how to do it. supernatural tech? possible.

With what, world encompassing voodoo magic?
Not a single one of these players are using anything to connect their minds to the computer you know.

"Super advanced technology" doesn't hack your brains through your mouse & keyboard and download data.
That's not some word you can just throw around. "Magic" is.

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by aohige

With what, world encompassing voodoo magic?
Not a single one of these players are using anything to connect their minds to the computer you know.

"Super advanced technology" doesn't hack your brains through your mouse & keyboard and download data.
That's not some word you can just throw around. "Magic" is.

lets just say after the patch, something happen on your monitor and cast magic to you :-p

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Elder Tale world theories, speculation and discussion (spoilers)

In this thread we debate the world of Elder Tale. Where did it come from? Is it a real world? If not, who created it? Why? How did the players get caught up in this mix? How is the world changing after the Catastrophe?

Be it theories, wild speculation or facts, this is the thread for such debates.

Warning: Since it's virtually impossible to get into the nitty-gritty details without diving into the novels, this thread will contain heavy spoilers. Anime watchers, beware.

I agree on this one.

Elder tales theories.

And it should allow spoiler and info from manga and novel. the story has 3 side story in manga form. All connected to each other with 3 different perspective. Aside form the main story which is the novel. There is also a side story for foreign players. Players outside of japan.

Log Horizon is pretty broad story with different perspective merge into one and to debate if the world is real or not. Each views on the world is important and it could possibly lead to spoilers because if someone hasn't touch the manga and only viewed the anime. Then he/she would be spoiled by such information.

The anime is doing good in explaining but its still limited on only Shiroe's pov. there are other interesting facts that are left behind. Like perspective from other guild masters and people playing the game.

[Tenzen12]

To put it simply Elder Tales weren't virtual reality and simply giga or two of update can't turn PC game into it.

If you say it's virtual reality you can say same thing about Never ending story, considering how complex Log horison world is, gap between media like book and MMORPG is close to noneexistent.

[Sheba]

Neverending story style if you side with fantasy. Farmer's Riverworld if you lean more toward sci-fi and "Aliens Did It".

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Neverending story style if you side with fantasy. Farmer's Riverworld if you lean more toward sci-fi and "Aliens Did It".

maybe Gantz come to this world and grant the developer "magical elder tale machine"