To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

it isnt a new skill, to firing a gun someone will not need intelligence, even a child in our world can do it,

As someone who has handled firearms before I can assure you- you definitely need some skills if you want to hit anything short of pointblank.

And you definitely need a lot of skill to hit anything in the heat of combat.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

i havent said that touma would definatly loose if they use a gun BUT the fact that they havent used one against him (except levinia, and this was so old) a normal mordern gun,

touma havent shown that he defeats his enemys without a punch, and for that he needs to get closer to them,
the best/worst example is Gremlin, they needed contermeasures for IB, why not using a gun??, this russia mage traiend her legs because of touma right? why not using a simple gun if they KNEW that he will try to stop them??,

Are you trolling?

She pulled something out of her turtleneck. It was a product that could be found lined up even at supermarkets in a major gun country like America.

“We will kill you using normal, everyday methods that do not involve the supernatural at all.”

“!!”

Kamijou had no power that gave him the ability to deflect or dodge a bullet.

That was why he instead swung his right foot up from his position on the ground where he had landed after striking the wall. He kicked up the lever holding one of the cube-shaped containers on the ground, unlocking it.

Immediately afterwards, a gunshot rang out.

The plane’s acrobatics created a small world that ignored the gravity of the Earth. The container floated up and orange sparks flew as it acted as a shield for Kamijou.

[LevelSeven]

As someone who has handled firearms before I can assure you- you definitely need some skills if you want to hit anything short of pointblank.

And you definitely need a lot of skill to hit anything in the heat of combat.

but it isnt a complete new skill which is something where you need to learn it over years....
even if someoen needs to practice with it, im sure for so skilled magicians it isnt a real handicap...altough i can be wrong...

Are you trolling?

trolling?? i havent thought that it looks like as if i troll......

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

but it isnt a complete new skill which is something where you need to learn it over years....
even if someoen needs to practice with it, im sure for so skilled magicians it isnt a real handicap...altough i can be wrong...

Yes it is, it's a completely different set of skills- Breathing techniques, Holding techniques, Aiming techniques, maintenance etc.

It's the same as saying swordfighting is just swinging the weapon around as hard as you can to hit something- that's not how it works.

The odds of you hitting something is so unreliable that you might as well stick to using something that you know would work. And yes you could put aside time to train your skills for that ONE job... Or you could use that time to better what skills you've already know.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

trolling?? i havent thought that it looks like as if i troll......

Nevermind, just checking.

[LevelSeven]

Yes it is, it's a completely different set of skills- Breathing techniques, Holding techniques, Aiming techniques, maintenance etc.

It's the same as saying swordfighting is just swinging the weapon around as hard as you can to hit something- that's not how it works.

The odds of you hitting something is so unreliable that you might as well stick to using something that you know would work. And yes you could put aside time to train your skills for that ONE job... Or you could use that time to better what skills you've already know.

really?? havent thought that it is so hard to shot agaisnt someone and kill him

than why not using a normal knife?? a kitchen knife would also good enough,
at least all versions where he fought it would be so easy to defeat him if he was about to punch the magician......nevermind this is toaru and so is the story, if this goes on i think we will be out of topic

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

really?? havent thought that it is so hard to shot agaisnt someone and kill him

your forgetting the recoil of the gun. It looks easy in games or in front of your computer but its different when you try it for real. if your not used to it. Just firing few will numb your hand (that's what I read/heard about it)

[demino_hellsin]

Just to say, there is even a wrong way of punching someone. Just swinging your fist with all your strength is a good way to break your wrist along with someone's jaw. Similar issues with every other skillset really.

Even Touma's level of fist fighting could probably be considered adept when it comes to brawls.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Rifles are more stable because it is supported by your upper body, handguns are harder imo.

But worse than the recoil is the sound- I literally could hear ringing in my ear after every shot and that could affect your sense of balance.

EDIT:

Oh god yes, there are far more ways for you to hurt yourself than your target if you just punch wildly.... That's why I prefer palms.

[Kenju of the Right]

yeah i'm pretty sure Touma has hurt his hand/wrist a few times

[Wandering Soul]

Really? I don't remember that happening. Also out of curiosity what is considered the right way of punching someone?

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Draco Spirit

Don't Blanks typically freak people out tho?

There are two types of people with the Pariah-gene,

From the link I posted,

Blanks
Blanks, also called "Untouchables", are those humans who possess the Pariah Gene in its recessive form in their genetic code. A Blank is often not aware of his powers and may not be able to control them even if he is, but the aura of negative psychic space he projects is highly disruptive to psychic powers. A psyker will find it difficult to impossible to affect the Blank and anyone in his general vicinity with his powers. Blanks have a better chance than true Pariahs to live a peaceful life, for since their aura of "otherness" is weak, baseline humans may simply pass it off as queerness and leave the Blank alone. Blanks are often recruited as Acolytes to serve as living shields against psychic attacks by Inquisitors and are forced to tag along wherever the Inquisitor goes. Generous or pragmatic Inquistors might even provide their Blank with combat training and some equipment to augment their living shield's survivability.

Pariahs
Pariahs, also known as "Blacksouls", "Psychic Nulls" or the "Soulless", are mutants in whom the Pariah Gene is dominant. The have no presence whatsoever in the Warp and thus no "soul." Their aura of "otherness" is so powerful that a baseline human finds it impossible to be in the Pariah's presence; and they are a living embodiment of the worst possible nightmare for any psychically gifted being. Unlike Blanks, Pariahs can siphon off and thrive on the psychic energy of Psykers, and their aura quickly proves fatal to them. Pariahs are quite often killed at birth as mutants, for their "otherness" is very palpable. Surprisingly, Pariahs have always been much sought after by the Imperium, first organised in the all-female Sisters of Silence order, and now trained to become the much feared Culexus Assassins.

---

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

As someone who has handled firearms before I can assure you- you definitely need some skills if you want to hit anything short of pointblank.

Given Touma only knows how to punch ... getting to pointblank range won't exactly be hard ...

---

Originally Posted by the one above all

Also out of curiosity what is considered the right way of punching someone?

From what I have read, you are suppose to lock your wrist (not really sure what that means LOL) and connect with the knuckles of your index and middle finger. In general it's advised you only strike the soft spots on the body as there is a good chance you might break your hand - Boxer's gloves aren't for the protection of their opponents.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Salt

Given Touma only knows how to punch ... getting to pointblank range won't exactly be hard ...

The problem with that is at pointblank range, both sides can reach the other, and Touma's no slouch at that distance.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Just to say, there is even a wrong way of punching someone. Just swinging your fist with all your strength is a good way to break your wrist along with someone's jaw. Similar issues with every other skillset really.

not just wrist but your hand, elbow up to shoulder or your upper body parts. Dislocated joints because of throwing to strong of a punch without proper transfer/flow of power will put strain on them.

[Kira477]

If you want to kill Touma, your best bet is to snipe him, ceteris paribus.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The problem with that is at pointblank range, both sides can reach the other, and Touma's no slouch at that distance.

vs. a gun?

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Salt

vs. a gun?

In a short distance battle. Yes. He has more leeway that he can redirect the nozzle of the gun or snatch it away or just control where it is pointed. Its weakness is its linear and where the gun is pointing is where its heading.

Touma experience lots of battle and in those battle shown that he knows what his doing when its on his game.

So using a sniper rifle and aim from far away with him not noticing is probably had better chances than using a pistol or hand gun against him.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

In a short distance battle. Yes. He has more leeway that he can redirect the nozzle of the gun or snatch it away or just control where it is pointed. Its weakness is its linear and where the gun is pointing is where its heading.

Touma experience lots of battle and in those battle shown that he knows what his doing when its on his game.

So using a sniper rifle and aim from far away with him not noticing is probably had better chances than using a pistol or hand gun against him.

Well, then arming our police forces with firearms must have been the mistake of the century. We should have given them kung fu training. >.>

You can move your finger to squeeze a trigger much much faster than you can perform any kind of kung fu despite what you see in the movies. It rarely recommended that you try to disarm an attacker wielding a firearm even if you know what you are doing. And to my knowledge, Touma is not an expert fighter, he got beaten up by the blond-spiky-hair-dude-with-sunglasses friend of his.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Salt

Well, then arming our police forces with firearms must have been the mistake of the century. We should have given them kung fu training. >.>

Actually we gave them both, because more often than not they would need to subdue a suspect than kill.

Originally Posted by Salt

You can move your finger to squeeze a trigger much much faster than you can perform any kind of kung fu despite what you see in the movies. It rarely recommended that you try to disarm an attacker wielding a firearm even if you know what you are doing. And to my knowledge, Touma is not an expert fighter, he got beaten up by the blond-spiky-hair-dude-with-sunglasses friend of his.

That depends- I've already posted a snippet from the novel of how Kamijou's quick thinking saved him from a bullet at relatively close range. You might say he's an expert at improvising.

And it's actually a slower than you think, relatively speaking, of course unless you're not counting whether or not you would hit the target.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Actually we gave them both, because more often than not they would need to subdue a suspect than kill.



That depends- I've already posted a snippet from the novel of how Kamijou's quick thinking saved him from a bullet at relatively close range. You might say he's an expert at improvising.

And it's actually a slower than you think, relatively speaking, of course unless you're not counting whether or not you would hit the target.

I also feel like the biggest thing to take into account is precognition... sniping would make sense because he wouldn't be able to tell it was coming, but if you attack him with a gun from not too far away, he will dodge a bullet... if Ran can dodge a bullet, Touma most certainly can as well... and be much better at it... and hit his opponent... with his punch.

Bullets are really slow compared to how fast Rensa was in NT 7... and he evaded her pretty darn well...

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Salt

Well, then arming our police forces with firearms must have been the mistake of the century. We should have given them kung fu training. >.>

You can move your finger to squeeze a trigger much much faster than you can perform any kind of kung fu despite what you see in the movies. It rarely recommended that you try to disarm an attacker wielding a firearm even if you know what you are doing. And to my knowledge, Touma is not an expert fighter, he got beaten up by the blond-spiky-hair-dude-with-sunglasses friend of his.

I don't know about your country's police task force but from what I know. The police and miltary has hand to hand combat training aside from fire arms training. There are also extreme body training to keep the body fit for any kind of situation.

You just don't aim and shot against your opponent. Specially if the opponent comes close to you.

There is also tactics and strategy lessons if I remember it right.

Tsuchimikado is a expert in martial arts. No contest ask between a Touma who only knew how to brawl (because its the beginning of the series) and against an expert in martial arts.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Salt

vs. a gun?

You need to watch more Steven Seagal movies!