Kill La Kill - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[bhl88]

So Senketsu was not happy with Satsuki and Satsuki was referring to both of them (Ryuuko and Senketsu?)

[Whitemoon648]

i did mention the possibility of nui being another sister of the two, so i guess the producers decided to go this path.

as for the ending, It was unexpected and awesome. But them cliffhangers .
last few episodes have been on fire. can't wait for the next episode.


i love series that are produced originally by the anime companies. As an anime fan it makes guessing/predicting much more fun and at the same time less chance to get spoiled.

[~Yami~]

yaaaay!!!!
double-bladed Satsuki is so awesome....
it's kinda surprising because Ryuko managed to use Junketsu very well... she just activate Kamui-turbo mode easily (which she only managed to learn it during her battle against Nonon)

anyway, Ryuko is a very dumb character... I think it's the third time when she got brain-washed (first in Senketsu, second when fought against Ragyo, and now)
she just didn't learn anything

so Harime Nui is another Satsuki's imouto.... and Isshin just slashed his daughter's eye

I also want to see when Satsuki using pink-scissors weapon as well... it's time for the sisters to use their fathers' inherited weapon... but double blade is very badass in same way

finally the last Satsuki vs Ryuko happens... and in such an unpredicted way... switched Kamui!

so it's like Gundam SEED Destiny, eh?

Spoiler for protagonist:

when the protagonist suddenly switched out near the end of the series

it seems like Satsuki is the protagonist of the series now... and Ryuko just got kicked due to her incapability to be main character and turned to be antagonist instead

[AntonKutovoi]

"Teki wa... Honnoji ni ari!"
I saw what you did there

[Solace]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Like it wasn't before now?

Was there ever a hero/villain trope to begin with? Ryuko wasn't exactly fighting for heroic reasons, heck she hardly gave a damn about anything except her revenge. And Satsuki has never been overtly evil beyond being a strict ruler. The school raids were probably the worst thing she's done.

I suppose there's Nudist Beach (black outfits) versus Revocs (white outfits)? Ah well.

Some thoughts on this ep:

While I'm enjoying the twists and turns, I'm bothered by how quickly everyone except Ryuko (Superman) and Satsuki (Batman) have been marginalized. The Elite Four have become a joke, barely able to fight the minions of the enemy. Nudist Beach, despite their neat tech, also fail at fighting an effective rebellion. And Mako has been thrown away by her best friend, meaning those comedic "lectures" are now a waste of time....and since Mako is a comedic character, this makes her useless to the plot, since the chances of her being an actual fighter again are nonexistent. Well, she could die I guess...but that would be cheap.

So really what seems like the story is moving toward, is a showdown of the heavyweights: Nui, Satsuki, Ragyo, and Ryuko. It's a bit too DBZ, where everyone sits back and maybe gets some bit parts while the Saiyans get all the spotlight. I'm hoping it doesn't continue down that path.

All in all, I like the role reversal, and I really like how they continue to show that Ragyo was a monster long before she merged with the life fibers. Forget being a mother, she was never a human being. And creating a life from a life fiber womb? I think that's a big clue about the life fibers: humanity isn't just a food source, it's a tool for evolution. In that context, I think Ragyo is more like a hive queen than a harbinger.

[TheGrandSage23]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

yaaaay!!!!
double-bladed Satsuki is so awesome....
it's kinda surprising because Ryuko managed to use Junketsu very well... she just activate Kamui-turbo mode easily (which she only managed to learn it during her battle against Nonon)

anyway, Ryuko is a very dumb character... I think it's the third time when she got brain-washed (first in Senketsu, second when fought against Ragyo, and now)
she just didn't learn anything

so Harime Nui is another Satsuki's imouto.... and Isshin just slashed his daughter's eye

I also want to see when Satsuki using pink-scissors weapon as well... it's time for the sisters to use their fathers' inherited weapon... but double blade is very badass in same way

finally the last Satsuki vs Ryuko happens... and in such an unpredicted way... switched Kamui!

so it's like Gundam SEED Destiny, eh?

Spoiler for protagonist:

when the protagonist suddenly switched out near the end of the series

it seems like Satsuki is the protagonist of the series now... and Ryuko just got kicked due to her incapability to be main character and turned to be antagonist instead

1) how the hell is Ryuko a dumb character? Because she was brainwashed? That's the only time she's been brainwashed.. That never happened with Senketsu nor Ragyo before.. I fail to see how being mindfucked makes someone a dumb character

2) were you actually watching this episode? Nui came from another womb made from life fibers.. Nui is not related to anyone

[Triple_R]

I love how Kill La Kill continues to be very fast-paced. In a lesser anime, we'd be treated to Ryuko angsting a lot and Satsuki being sidelined for almost the entire episode, maybe getting a brief scene. But thankfully, what we get instead is the action excitedly piling on and the plot blazing forward with the central characters maintaining central focus.

I'm glad that Mako instantly went into speech mode (after Ryuko's harsh words to Senketsu), but I'm honestly glad that it didn't work this time. I like Mako, but if a lone pep talk from her is always enough to achieve success, then it would make climatic success a bit too easy to achieve. In other words, a climatic victory should feel extra-hard to achieve and involve more than just a standard formula for success.


In any event, I'm very much looking forward to Senketsu!Satsuki facing Junketsu!Ryuko. That's a great twist, and a great way to make the third battle between the two of them feel fresh. I also like how Junketsu!Ryuko makes me think of a really overpowered psychotic/crazy DBZ villain. DBZ had its flaws to be sure - Its extremely slow pacing (the very opposite of Kill La Kill) being foremost amongst them - But I think that DBZ was very good at coming up with cool and entertaining antagonistic threats, and so I'm glad to see Kill La Kill be similar to it when it comes to this.

On the whole, an excellent episode!

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by TheGrandSage23

1) how the hell is Ryuko a dumb character? Because she was brainwashed? That's the only time she's been brainwashed.. That never happened with Senketsu nor Ragyo before.. I fail to see how being mindfucked makes someone a dumb character

2) were you actually watching this episode? Nui came from another womb made from life fibers.. Nui is not related to anyone

Watch the episode again. and then google "Artificial womb".

It is ( at least imo also) strongly hinted ( if not blatantly stated) that she is Ragyo's daughter.

If Isshin/soichiro is the father or not, that is imo still up to speculation.

-----
Also if this doesn't convince you, watch episode 18. From the flow of that episode, i did mention the possibility of the third possible child( episode 18 discussion thread). The flashback were made in a way that made that possible. The baby inside ragyu could have either been Ryokou or the third child ( which is hinted to be Nuu). Ragyou was experimenting with her own babies. Maybe it is something like this, Satsuki the failure, ryokou who died, and nuu was moved from her mom's womb to the life fiber womb. Anything is possible from the messed up monster that is ragyu.

[TheGrandSage23]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

Watch the episode again. and then google "Artificial womb".

It is ( at least imo also) strongly hinted ( if not blatantly stated) that she is Ragyo's daughter.

If Isshin/soichiro is the father or not, that is imo still up to speculation.

-----
Also if this doesn't convince you, watch episode 18. From the flow of that episode, i did mention the possibility of the third possible child( episode 18 discussion thread). The flashback were made in a way that made that possible. The baby inside ragyu could have either been Ryokou or the third child ( which is hinted to be Nuu). Ragyou was experimenting with her own babies. Maybe it is something like this, Satsuki the failure, ryokou who died, and nuu was moved from her mom's womb to the life fiber womb. Anything is possible from the messed up monster that is ragyu.

What? She practically came from the life fibers herself.. Nui doesn't have one drop of Kiryuin blood in her.. You can speculate and that's fine but until we actually get clear cut evidence currently Nui is in no way related to anyone

[kazuki_yuki92]

*cryiing* satsuukiii-samaaaa~

OMG.........OMG.......OMG........

this episode is super awesome

really..i can't believe..waiting unpatiently just for 24 minutes per week just to watching this anime is so worty,,,

oh my God,i can't wait for the next episodes...

i hope satsuki-sama won't die on next episode

and i can't wait to hear ryuko call satsuki "One-chan~/ ane-chan"

[Zantetsuken]

Originally Posted by TheGrandSage23

What? She practically came from the life fibers herself.. Nui doesn't have one drop of Kiryuin blood in her.. You can speculate and that's fine but until we actually get clear cut evidence currently Nui is in no way related to anyone

Lrn2biology.

Artificial womb only means the fetus gestation period was not in an uterus. It would still need an egg and sperm for it to form. In fact, how would you explain she has a heart if she was made from life fibers?

[Breimoon]

Nui is not human. The subs specifically said(at least the italians ones) spiritual sister!!

[soryo]

Nui is human, but it developed in an artificial womb, is there the possibility of her is sister from Satsuki and Ryuko, of course, leaving the possibility that Ragyo possessed the genetic material of Souchirou, then she could have been developed through artificial insemination and artificial womb.
And the blue eyes.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by TheGrandSage23

1) how the hell is Ryuko a dumb character? Because she was brainwashed? That's the only time she's been brainwashed.. That never happened with Senketsu nor Ragyo before.. I fail to see how being mindfucked makes someone a dumb character

2) were you actually watching this episode? Nui came from another womb made from life fibers.. Nui is not related to anyone

my point is Ryuko is too hot-headed
somehow I'm sure that Satsuki won't be able to be easily controlled by Ragyo, Senketsu, or Junketsu (unlike Ryuko)
it's just a hunch because Ryuko is mentally weaker than Satsuki

Since Nui claimed that she is Ryuko's soul-sister, I'm sure that Nui is related to Ryuko and Ragyo
I don't think Life Fiber managed to make a human since they need human as their medium... which means Nui possible to be Ragyo's daughter (but might be Isshin Matoi not her father)

[Torayan]

This episode delivered as usual.

The 15 seconds made-up flashback really resonated with me. It's probably the most obvious hint on what is KlK's subtance. (I know some people don't believe KlK really got substance, this is just my interpretation).

Spoiler for my thoughts:

Ryuuko is basically brainwashed with false memories of her growing up happily (and peacefully) with her mother.

That Ryuuko craves for family love and ordinary life is nothing new. We new it since she was "adopted" in the Mankanshokou house. What's interesting is the vision that Ragyo gives of what a "girl's normal life" is:
Ryuuko grows up as nice girl, leads the hard-working student life and when she gets out of school, finds a man ("clothes") and marry him. All under the guidance of her mother.
I was almost expecting the following to be added: have kids, become a housewife, cook and manage the family budget while your husband kills himself at work. The fairly traditional vision that is still noticeable in a plethora of anime and makes a lot of it's tropes.

But this contradicts all KlK has standed for so far: self empowerment, negation of the norm and sexual emancipation.
Ragyo negates all these:
Covers are suits because it incarnate norm. Ryuuko's false memories sums up fairly well the life of plenty of girls. Ragyo abusing both her daughters is a rather graphic way to show her dominance other their sexuality. Even her look in the made-up memories is old fashioned.
She's not only built up as a solid main antagonist but also as the bearer of an ideal (tradition/norm) that is easily recognisable for us viewers.

I'm not saying KlK is crazy deep or subtle, but this episode pretty much confirmed imo that there is more to it than crazy plot-twists, bombastic action and gratuitous fanservice. And I'm glad for it.

[Hooves]

Just when you thought Satsuki couldn't get even more awesome. She breaks free, beats some COVERS with her toenail and gets Senketsu ready for the fight against Ryuuko. That dual-wielding as well. That dual-wielding!

[Death Usagi]

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

"Teki wa... Honnoji ni ari!"
I saw what you did there

LOL Yeah.

Nobunaga tales.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Breimoon

Nui is not human. The subs specifically said(at least the italians ones) spiritual sister!!

The only one fully human is Satsuki. Well, biologically speaking anyway. It's like saying Batman is human, which he is if you compare him to people like Superman. He's pretty much a superhuman compared to any regular human though. Satsuki's biology essentially rejects life fibers, she was only able to control Junketsu through sheer force of will. An amazing thing to consider since we just saw what it did to Ryuko.

Ryuko is a human given special powers. Her biological parents are human but she was given life fibers which managed to incorporate their way into her own biology. Think Spiderman, or The Hulk - normal people who became something unique through outside interference.

Nui appears to be inhuman. While her biology mirrors Ryuko's, the method is completely different. Since Nui was "conceived" last, and through an artificial womb constructed of life fibers, it calls into question her patronage. It's likely Ragyo went a step further from her experiment with Ryuko, skipping the human male genes and using her own egg plus life fibers directly.

So to sum up, my guess is this:

Satsuki: Human male and human female, no life fibers. Fully human, but a peak condition one.

Ryuko: Human male and human female, bonded with life fibers. Metahuman (mutant). Originally human but altered through external circumstances.

Nui: Human female and life fibers, half breed. A true hybrid of different species.

Technically only Satsuki and Ryuko would be fully related. Nui would be more like a half sister. And of course since they all have different upbringings, none of them share a family bond except through genetics.

The question I ponder, is when exactly Ragyo decided and managed to successfully merge with the life fibers. Given the flashbacks, it seems she did this after her daughters were born, however her dialogue during the flashback of Ryuko's experiment implies something different.

[Death Usagi]

Now that I think about it, the scene with Ryuuko being in a fake life as a happy daughter with her mother after Junketsu is forced on her reminds me of Gurren Lagann where Simon and the Gurren Brigade became stuck in an illusion of a fake life by the Anti-Spirals.

[TheGrandSage23]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

my point is Ryuko is too hot-headed
somehow I'm sure that Satsuki won't be able to be easily controlled by Ragyo, Senketsu, or Junketsu (unlike Ryuko)
it's just a hunch because Ryuko is mentally weaker than Satsuki

Since Nui claimed that she is Ryuko's soul-sister, I'm sure that Nui is related to Ryuko and Ragyo
I don't think Life Fiber managed to make a human since they need human as their medium... which means Nui possible to be Ragyo's daughter (but might be Isshin Matoi not her father)

1) Baseless claim with nothing to back it up.. If Ragyo wanted to control Satsuki she could but in her eyes shes crap.. Being hot headed had nothing to do with being mind controlled..

2) from the information we were giving nothing provides proof to back up your theory or anyone else who thinks like that