Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel Movie Discussion Thread

[ukulelembo]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

To make anything that could remotely be called a "sequel to Zero" they have to cover Sakura's story, and also the details of the Grail, neither of which are mentioned in Fate.

No, they primarily need to cover everything. Zero isn't just about Sakura and Grail. They are just one of many themes.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

And, perhaps FSN was originally conceived as two separate stories, but it was not written in that way (Fate and UBW does allude to events in HF) and Zero certainly wasn't.

Both titles should also be internally thematically connected. Not mention that after decision compress story into one title there were many changes made.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

I agree that the two are distinct different directions, but I think Zero takes more from the HF direction than the other two routes, because it covers things like the corruption in the Grail in more detail.

No, Zero takes from both directions equally. Difference is just in priorities of individual story elements from Stay Night point.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

The only thing that Fate and UBW really covers from Zero is Saber and related concepts (and even that is mostly in Fate), the rest is pretty much entirely ignored.

No, FSN doesn't cover anything. It's exactly the opposite. Zero cover FSN. You can't take it from the other side.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Even Shirou's ideal is covered in a more Zero-like manner in HF than in the other routes.

Shirou isn't Kiritsugu. Nobody says that he must expect same direction of fate (same decisions, same options). Only thing which he must expect is same result. And this is main point of UBW. Basically the main difference between UBW and HF is that in UBW Shirou faces his own problems, but unlike Kiritsugu he is able keep follow the same ideal, and in HF Shirou faces same decision as Kiritsugu, but choose the opposite option than him. Both variants equally follows Zero. Just each in its own way.

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

I actually think mixing routes are possible if you place HF last and don't return to Fate and UBW afterwards.

Mixing routes isn't possible, but is possible create own story based on them. But it depends what they want to tell.


Finally wake up guys! You mustn't expect Fate/Zero 2, but Fate/Stay Night. Nasu has already warned you before this. We can expect some connections with Zero, but we can't expect same thing. New FSN anime will follow such path which Ufotable will want to tell us. They promised us "sequel to Zero" which in other words means that in new anime they want to continue with all main key elements from Zero, but it doesn't say anything about how these elements will be managed and concluded. And since they have Nasu to their disposal, they can create anything. It's quite possible that this can be also just another Fate with some anime exclusive side-plot about Sakura, grail and anything. Don't have exaggerated expectations.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

No, they primarily need to cover everything. Zero isn't just about Sakura and Grail. They are just one of many themes.

No, but that is a big part of it. Ignoring that makes it not a Zero sequel in any meaningful way.

Both titles should also be internally thematically connected. Not mention that after decision compress story into one title there were many changes made.

Well, yeah, of course.

No, Zero takes from both directions equally. Difference is just in priorities of individual story elements from Stay Night point.

I think it takes more from HF because HF explains things in more detail and covers things that the first two routes ignore. There is far less that goes unexplained in HF than in the other routes (Saber aside, of course).

No, FSN doesn't cover anything. It's exactly the opposite. Zero cover FSN. You can't take it from the other side.

Well, Zero is a prequel to FSN, yes, but it does still take more themes from HF, because HF covers more of the story.

Shirou isn't Kiritsugu. Nobody says that he must expect same direction of fate (same decisions, same options). Only thing which he must expect is same result. And this is main point of UBW. Basically the main difference between UBW and HF is that in UBW Shirou faces his own problems, but unlike Kiritsugu he is able keep follow the same ideal, and in HF Shirou faces same decision as Kiritsugu, but choose the opposite option than him. Both variants equally follows Zero. Just each in its own way.

I don't think you can really say you've covered Shirou's ideal in the way Zero cover's Kiritsugu's without HF.

Mixing routes isn't possible, but is possible create own story based on them. But it depends what they want to tell.

Yeah, definitely.

Finally wake up guys! You mustn't expect Fate/Zero 2, but Fate/Stay Night. Nasu has already warned you before this. We can expect some connections with Zero, but we can't expect same thing. New FSN anime will follow such path which Ufotable will want to tell us. They promised us "sequel to Zero" which in other words means that in new anime they want to continue with all main key elements from Zero, but it doesn't say anything about how these elements will be managed and concluded.

Well, yeah, sure, we don't know exactly what they'll go for. I think it's hard to deal with Sakura without going somewhat into HF, though.

And since they have Nasu to their disposal, they can create anything. It's quite possible that this can be also just another Fate with some anime exclusive side-plot about Sakura, grail and anything. Don't have exaggerated expectations.

Well, they already tried "Fate with an anime-exclusive side-plot about Sakura", and it failed miserably. I'm OK with that if they can make it work and don't just add it as an afterthought, but I'm not convinced they will.

As for the Great Grail, I'm not sure how you'd add that as a side-plot. It basically has to be done at the end.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

As said several times. It is not confirmed that it's an original route. The only thing we know is that there will be new scenes.

I agree, is is not Fate or UBW or HF original routes - it will be a mix again.
New scenes will be there to compensate between differences between routes, and as always they can invent new things or change some situations to better adapt that part of the story.

Point of the story - it is useless to talk about HF as anime may avoid very large part of it. While I agree they will they will not forget about Sakura and Zouken I doubt it will be like it was in HF route. Maybe they will invent some new situation, disregarding visual novel story-line, especially for these two - a new scene if you will.

And they will make it like that because in that way they can give closure to everyone. Maybe even sent Saber in Avalon at the end ( I am more hoping for this than HF ).

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

Mixing routes isn't possible, but is possible create own story based on them. But it depends what they want to tell.

Basically this, so debating about visual novel routes is pointless as they will invent new scenes to compensate and thus changing entire route plot if they want.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

I agree, is is not Fate or UBW or HF original routes - it will be a mix again.

You're misunderstanding. "Not an original route" means it won't be a new route, not that it won't be one of the ones from the visual novel.

[Brother Coa]

I know it will not be new route ( like Archer or Ilya as some people suggested ).
I just don't know how to express myself over this... they are using original routes but in a new way, even going as far as to making new scenes.
Ugh.... conversation to make better anime adaption material?

[ukulelembo]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

I think it takes more from HF because HF explains things in more detail and covers things that the first two routes ignore. There is far less that goes unexplained in HF than in the other routes (Saber aside, of course).

Well, Zero is a prequel to FSN, yes, but it does still take more themes from HF, because HF covers more of the story.

This feeling you have probably mainly because current HF route is amalgamation of originally planned Ilya route with Sakura's story. And since Fate/Zero had main viewpoint from Einzbern's side of conflict is understandable that best sequel-ish feeling will give you a story from the same perspective. But Fate/Stay Night is story from Shirou's perspective. And for Shirou as character is more important to deal with his ideal, than with the problem of Grail War itself. Yes, his path may lead in that direction but isn't the main problem initially.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

I don't think you can really say you've covered Shirou's ideal in the way Zero cover's Kiritsugu's without HF.

And who says that it must to be in the way of Zero. That's a point.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, yeah, sure, we don't know exactly what they'll go for. I think it's hard to deal with Sakura without going somewhat into HF, though.

That's a question for screenwriters.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, they already tried "Fate with an anime-exclusive side-plot about Sakura", and it failed miserably. I'm OK with that if they can make it work and don't just add it as an afterthought, but I'm not convinced they will.

Two points. 1) Deen didn't have Nasu. 2) that wasn't side-plot about Sakura, but about Caster in which Sakura was just used.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

As for the Great Grail, I'm not sure how you'd add that as a side-plot. It basically has to be done at the end.

Likely Kotomine and Gil will have to talk a little bit more.

[Nigale86]

According to a link posted on the Humanity6 Twitter Account

AnimeJapan will have a Fate/stay night booth in addition to a Ufotable, Aniplex, and TYPE-MOON Booth.

At the very least it appears that the Fate/stay night anime will make some sort of appearance at the AnimeJapan Convention this year.

Whether this means new information or a new PV remains to be seen

Although the Fate/stay night booth information mentions something about a PV being screened but it may be the one already posted online

Although this translation comes from Google Translate which is not always the most accurate

Maybe someone else might be able to clarify

[Brother Coa]

I heard it will be on convention before they air it on fall.
But will they release new info and show new material I don't know. I think they will at least do a trailer with new scenes from the anime, since they have already done half of the episodes ( as I remember ) why not at least show us what they have done so far to increase they hype for fall?
But this is Unfotable and Type Moon, and they love to tease the fans. We shall see.

[ukulelembo]

http://www.anime-japan.jp/exhibitors...ion_booth.html

Confirmed new PV and new key visual. Also as I predicted, Saber is practically confirmed as main heroine.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

Also as I predicted, Saber is practically confirmed as main heroine.

Why, because there's going to be a statue? Again, she's the face of the franchise. Who else are they going to use as a statue? Hell, it could be Saber Lily or Saber Alter for all we know.

Granted, it's likely she will be the main heroine, but this doesn't really "practically confirm" anything.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

This feeling you have probably mainly because current HF route is amalgamation of originally planned Ilya route with Sakura's story. And since Fate/Zero had main viewpoint from Einzbern's side of conflict is understandable that best sequel-ish feeling will give you a story from the same perspective. But Fate/Stay Night is story from Shirou's perspective. And for Shirou as character is more important to deal with his ideal, than with the problem of Grail War itself. Yes, his path may lead in that direction but isn't the main problem initially.

Well, it's partially the "Ilya-route" thing, I guess, but also Sakura's sub-plot is important to the story.

Two points. 1) Deen didn't have Nasu. 2) that wasn't side-plot about Sakura, but about Caster in which Sakura was just used.

The first is true, but the second definitely isn't. If you look at the structure of that segment it was obviously meant to cover HF as well. The fight between Rin and Sakura is basically a bad rip-off of the final fight in HF, and it covers Sakura's relationship with Rin.

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

Also as I predicted, Saber is practically confirmed as main heroine.

Where?

Also, if that is true, it's bloody ridiculous. We do not need effectively a re-hash of a route they've already bloody covered....

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

http://www.anime-japan.jp/exhibitors...ion_booth.html

Confirmed new PV and new key visual. Also as I predicted, Saber is practically confirmed as main heroine.

It's not too surprising.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Where?

It just says they'll have a life sized Saber statue at the booth. That's the only reference to her at all in that link.

[ukulelembo]

Originally Posted by GDB

Granted, it's likely she will be the main heroine, but this doesn't really "practically confirm" anything.

It definitely confirms that we don't get HF. Or at least not same version as was presented in the original visual novel.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Where?

本作のメインヒロイン・セイバーの等身大立像も展示！
Exhibition of life-size statue of Saber, main heroine of this work.

And yes, they are talking about anime.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Also, if that is true, it's bloody ridiculous. We do not need effectively a re-hash of a route they've already bloody covered....

No, it's not. Actually it was predictable and inevitable. Saber is key character of whole franchize. There was no way to have her as something other than the main heroine.
On the other hand, you still don't need to worry. Even with Saber as main heroine this doesn't instantly mean that we get Fate route again.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

There was no way to have her as something other than the main heroine.

Unlimited Blade Works did it. Heaven's Feel did it. Prisma Illya did it. Extra did it. CCC did it. Apocrypha did it. Hollow Ataraxia did it.

And one could make a joke that Fate/Zero did it, with Waver or Irisviel being the main heroine.

On the other hand, you still don't need to worry. Even with Saber as main heroine this doesn't instantly mean that we get Fate route again.

As long as they were willing to put any level of effort in, at least, there's still hope.

[Brother Coa]

Well to be honest she is pretty much expected to be the main heroine. She is after all ,as everyone said, the most popular Type -Moon character and pretty much company's main brand.

Shirou is still the main protagonist on the other hand, and I cannot see how will they redo him.

[ukulelembo]

Originally Posted by GDB

Unlimited Blade Works did it. Heaven's Feel did it. Prisma Illya did it. Extra did it. CCC did it. Apocrypha did it. Hollow Ataraxia did it.

And one could make a joke that Fate/Zero did it, with Waver or Irisviel being the main heroine.

UBW and HF are just parts of original visual novel. Prisma, Extra, CCC, Apocrypha and HA aren't main works. In Zero Saber was main heroine. Urobuchi just did a very good job with characters' space.

Originally Posted by GDB

As long as they were willing to put any level of effort in, at least, there's still hope.

I personally can imagine very easily many ways how they can deal with it.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by ukulelembo

I personally can imagine very easily many ways how they can deal with it.

Same, as many people can, but they still have to be willing to do it. It is, after all, infinitely easier to just copy/paste something that's already done.

[Avatar of Dreams]

As much as I would prefer to have this anime be Saber's route I'm gonna have to disagree on this single sentence being a "confirmation" of any sort. If you read the preceding sentence it's pretty clear to me that 本作 is not specifically referring to ufotable remake but Fate/Stay Night in general, of which Saber is a main heroine (but not that only one).

I really doubt ufotable would make such a big announcement in a tiny ad for an anime convention. Also 2ch would definitely be blowing up over the news which I have seen no indication of.