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Mazryonh · 2014-03-19, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunarChain

Spoilers part 2:

Thank you very much for your informative summaries. I still think that, IF there's a Schwarzesmarken 18+ VN with routes for individual characters, this is how the "true route" of Lyz and Theo's relationship should run at this point:

Spoiler for those who haven't read the summaries:

I would also like to see Sylvia find some happiness too, whether her ultimate fate can be changed by a hypothetical VN or not. Such things shine all the brighter, especially for "Broken Bird" characters.

DevilHighDxD · 2014-03-19, 20:34

I find it a bit of too happy ending for our main characters, knowing that it Muv Luv, I'll be extreme cautious. Though I hope I'm wrong and wish the best for our official main couple.

Mazryonh · 2014-03-19, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

I find it a bit of too happy ending for our main characters, knowing that it Muv Luv, I'll be extreme cautious. Though I hope I'm wrong and wish the best for our official main couple.

Would you prefer that Theo have the same kind of ending that the hero of the series your avatar's character is from had? I know I wouldn't.

DevilHighDxD · 2014-03-19, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Would you prefer that Theo have the same kind of ending that the hero of the series your avatar's character is from had? I know I wouldn't.

If Theo's death is similar to Haruto than it a blessing from the typical death in the Muv Luv's crapsack world. >_<

Obviously I'm hoping for a happy ending as well, but Muv Luv is likely to say otherwise. So I'm prepared in case just for that to happened.

LunarChain · 2014-03-25, 00:43

There's somethin that i've been wondering about for sometime now.. If Irisidina is christian, why name her unit the 666th, which is basically the number of the beast. You'd think a christian wouldn't want such an evil name, and lol she even makes a joke about the bible once. Not really sure whats goin on here.

MrTerrorist · 2014-03-25, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunarChain

There's somethin that i've been wondering about for sometime now.. If Irisidina is christian, why name her unit the 666th, which is basically the number of the beast. You'd think a christian wouldn't want such an evil name, and lol she even makes a joke about the bible once. Not really sure whats goin on here.

Even if she is a Christian, it just a number and nothing more. It's not like she worships the devil.

Besides, it's only smaller very religious Christian groups that take the number seriously as the sign of the devil. It doesn't help that the media likes to extravagate it to the point the mainstream thinks all Christians fear the number.

Wild Goose · 2014-03-25, 08:24

Plus, y'know, she's kinda a Christian in secret? On account of how she's in Communist East Germany?

faiz blaster · 2014-03-25, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Plus, y'know, she's kinda a Christian in secret? On account of how she's in Communist East Germany?

So? I fail to see your point.

black knight iust · 2014-03-25, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

So? I fail to see your point.

Meaning if she came out with it she would be executed.

Alastor Mobius Toth · 2014-03-26, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Plus, y'know, she's kinda a Christian in secret? On account of how she's in Communist East Germany?

That's not actually accurate; East Germany *did* tolerate religion, up to a point, provided that clergy left the politics alone. They didn't like it, but actually being religious wasn't as condemning, as, say, listening to the BBC.

I'm more interested in knowing what denomination she would be; I'd assume Irisdina is a Protestant, but the Dresden area has been historically very Roman Catholic, so....

Micropod · 2014-03-27, 13:46

So, as of the most recent volume, the BETA are on the way to East Berlin, right? And we know from TSFIA that as of September 1983 the BETA are moving on Hamburg.

The conclusion of Schwarzesmarken ought to be interesting.

LunarChain · 2014-03-29, 03:49

I've been gathering schwarzesmarken material, however I read that some schwarz stories are published in tsfia. These published portions in the tsfia magazine, are they exclusive to the magazine or they're also included in the volumes of the novel?

Alastor Mobius Toth · 2014-03-29, 12:05

I believe that they're included in the novels; if not actually being summaries of the LNs themselves. The main difference are some of the illustrations, with TSFiA having everything in delicious colored Carnelian glory.

TSFiA does included however some of the background stories for various characters (like Sylwia, Pham, Liz), which are otherwise published in a separate Schwarzesmarken volumes knows as "Schwarzesmarken Requiem".

LunarChain · 2014-03-30, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

I believe that they're included in the novels; if not actually being summaries of the LNs themselves. The main difference are some of the illustrations, with TSFiA having everything in delicious colored Carnelian glory.

TSFiA does included however some of the background stories for various characters (like Sylwia, Pham, Liz), which are otherwise published in a separate Schwarzesmarken volumes knows as "Schwarzesmarken Requiem".

I see thanks.

LunarChain · 2014-03-30, 02:35

Here's the finale of Schwarzesmarken..

Spoiler for Finale:

The scene starts with Theodore and Irisdina sitting somewhere while Theodore watches a medic patch Irisdina. He mentions in his monologue that these injuries are going to make it difficult for her to rest or sleep, her nails from all fingers have been removed after all. A small conversation between them takes place, with Irisdina telling him that she didn't think that she was going to die since she knew that the unit would come for her. They talk about some stuff and Theodore blushes, and then she reminds him of what she told him at the end of volume , which is basically that after all of this is over, they will go over to the villa south of Berlin that belonged to Theodore family. And while she knew about the death of the members of her unit, she was saddened, but as Theodore mentioned she wouldn't let appear on her face. Theodore then moves to fight Beatrix after getting a few tips from Irisdina on how to beat her, and in the end he manages to finish her off(to my surprise) by stabbing the control unit of the mig-27 with his knife. Beatrix speaks a few lines, which Theodore interprets to be her final words, after which she dies.

Now Theodore returns to the rebel's base, however everyone who was supposed to be guarding Irisdina is completely silent. Theodore makes his way to were she is, only to find her lying down, with Katia and Annette besides her. Katia's face was already drenched with tears, and then Annette explains to Theodore that Axman attacked the area, going after Katia's life. However, Irisdina shielded her, and got fatally shot in the abdomen. Axman mentions that as a reward for making it easy to kill her, he will let her die slowly, and leaves afterwards. Irisdina then looks at Theo, and speaks weakly and telling him its fine, since her part is done, and then looks at Katia and tells them not to grieve her death. She asks about Beatrix, and Theo tells her that she shouldn't have suffered much. She then tells Theodore that she wants to see the Berlin without the wall seperating east and west, and Theodore carries her and takes her to his mig-23. In the magazine, there's a picture of Theodore holding her, the same way takeru holds sumika, and yuuya holds cryska. They take off, and fly over Berlin, and Irisdina watches Berlin, telling Theodore that she is happy that germany is not divided anymore. Theodore watches people from the east and west, hugging each other like old friends, and then starts talking to Irisdina, but there is no answer. Theodore, knew what this means, and holds back his tears. He looks at her face, and see a content look on her dazzling face, but still decides to keep talking. He tells her that he loved her, and that he wanted her to find happiness more than anyone else, and keeps flying on. The scene ends here.

Now, apparently some time later, Heim tells Theodore that they need him on the frontlines, however he does so unwillingly since it hasn't been much since Irisdina's death, and as such he is worried about Theodore. Theodore takes the whole thing calmly, and meets up with Katia and Annette, the remaining pilots of the 666th. They speak about Irisdina, and Theodore mentions that she told them not to grieve. Katia is very worried about Theodore, and tries to talk to him to help him become better, but he pets her head, telling her that everything would be fine. Theodore mentions in his monologue that the face of Katia isn't the face of a kid anymore, but the face of the girl who helped break the Berlin wall through operation Ursula; in other words she matured. While walking to the TSFs, Annette mentions that the army is thinking of reforming the 666th. Now, as the commander of his unit, Theodore has matured greatly, and decides to keep going to get a better future for his country, and the scene ends up with him walking to his mig-23.

Epilogue
The epilogue makes a few time skips, telling the conditions of Germany and Europe in each period of time like how Germany was evacuated when the beta finally crushed all the efforts of the German army. It also mentions that Theodore sometimes saw Irisdina in his dreams, and he would ask her stuff like that he was worried that her wound was painful and so on.

In general, the series ended on an optimistic note, despite all the death and the crap everyone had to go through, especially Theodore who lost the woman he loves and the only family remaining for him. As for me, I really cried at her death, since like Theodore, I really wanted her to find happiness. I was charmed by Irisdina because she is Irisdina, and because I really doubt there will be such an amazing heroine with all the amazing character traits that she has, and of course, I really doubt someone will be able to create a more beautiful character.

In the author's comments, Uchida mentions that schwarzesmarken is part of a bigger project, so apparently the story isn't over yet, and as such he mentions that there will be news about a sequel or continuation in the future, although he doesn't mentions if the future stories will feature the remaining characters, which are Theodore, Katia, and Annette.

Another thing: If you read the summaries, you will find out that it's strongly hinted that Karrel, Irisdina's brother, survived. Also, Gretel's death left lots of room for doubt about her actual demise, and as such I have a feeling that she survived.

All in all, it's been such a crazy ride, and well, this story is more amazing than the original muv luv and total eclispe, but is as sad however. It's funny how we all read the chapters with anticipation while we knew that europe will fall at sometime, and that most of the characters won't survive. Even though we knew this, I kept reading, and I think that this added to the stress of reading schwarzesmarken; that's right, it wasn't easy reading this story, since there was death all over, and because the characters were amazing it really hurt when they died, and because Carnelian illustrated the characters. Sending such beautiful characters to their brutal or tragic death is just too much, and while I think it was really fortunate that Carnelian was the illustrator, it also made it many times more painful.

Ow I forgot to mention that Krike survived as well.

Anyways, thanks for reading this summary, and well, feel free to comment.

Wild Goose · 2014-03-30, 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

So? I fail to see your point.

The eastern bloc at the very least did not care much for Christianity, and being a Christian publicly was a surefire way of getting tremendous amounts of shit heaped on you and persecution.

At the very least, Irisdina would have been rated politically unfit for command.

Quote:

Originally Posted by black knight iust

Meaning if she came out with it she would be executed.

Not quite that bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

That's not actually accurate; East Germany *did* tolerate religion, up to a point, provided that clergy left the politics alone. They didn't like it, but actually being religious wasn't as condemning, as, say, listening to the BBC.

I'm more interested in knowing what denomination she would be; I'd assume Irisdina is a Protestant, but the Dresden area has been historically very Roman Catholic, so....

Huh. Not as bad as the Soviets, China and Vietnam then. That's not so bad.

As for denomination, I'd say she's either Lutheran or Catholic. The Lutheran Church is very strong in Germany, where it originated, but Europe has always been fairly half/half Catholic/Protestant. *shrug*

Yes I know I never really answered it.

-=-

*looks at spoilers*

Y'know, I kinda figured it was never going to end well, but GODDAMNIT AGE STOP KILLING ALL OUR WAIFU.

...Holy shit. This means Yui's the only waifu who hasn't been killed off. The power of tsunjellydere Yuimouto compels you!

wavehawk · 2014-03-30, 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

...Holy shit. This means Yui's the only waifu who hasn't been killed off. The power of tsunjellydere Yuimouto compels you!

- You KNOW that Kooki heard you and is currently rubbing his hands in glee over the twist surprise he has for Yui fans in the future...

Fireminer · 2014-03-30, 03:31

THAT IS IT!

Anyone has got a saw and a mask? Cause I'm going to kill Kooki!

...

Great! Mental Depression!

...

Pah...

That aside, this is truly Muv-Luv style: Someone has to die after seeing the silver lining.

Wild Goose · 2014-03-30, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- You KNOW that Kooki heard you and is currently rubbing his hands in glee over the twist surprise he has for Yui fans in the future...

And so Yui becomes a killed off true Muv-Luv waifu option.

Just as keikakku. (TL note: Keikakku means planned.)

Fireminer · 2014-03-30, 04:27

Hmm... Does anyone realize that main girls in Muv-Luv usually divided into two archetype: The Silent and The Talkative?

That aside, there is this question: How did the Communist Germany as well as Eastern Europe survive, when the main benefactor, Russia, has fallen?

2014-03-19, 20:34	Link #462
DevilHighDxD Zero Two Best waifu 2018 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Living the NEET dream Age: 27	I find it a bit of too happy ending for our main characters, knowing that it Muv Luv, I'll be extreme cautious. Though I hope I'm wrong and wish the best for our official main couple. __________________

2014-03-25, 08:24	Link #467
Wild Goose Truth Martyr Author Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork. Age: 38	Plus, y'know, she's kinda a Christian in secret? On account of how she's in *Communist* East Germany? __________________ One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine. *I believe in miracles.* Order of Freelance Mages (Goose's Nanoha OC Project)

2014-03-29, 12:05	Link #473
Alastor Mobius Toth Idar Lead Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: World Marshall bureau	I believe that they're included in the novels; if not actually being summaries of the LNs themselves. The main difference are some of the illustrations, with TSFiA having everything in delicious colored Carnelian glory. TSFiA does included however some of the background stories for various characters (like Sylwia, Pham, Liz), which are otherwise published in a separate Schwarzesmarken volumes knows as "Schwarzesmarken Requiem". __________________ Let the world fear us all. It's just means to an end. Our salvation lies in the Father's sins.

2014-03-30, 02:35	Link #475
LunarChain Member Join Date: Nov 2010	Here's the finale of Schwarzesmarken.. Spoiler for Finale: The scene starts with Theodore and Irisdina sitting somewhere while Theodore watches a medic patch Irisdina. He mentions in his monologue that these injuries are going to make it difficult for her to rest or sleep, her nails from all fingers have been removed after all. A small conversation between them takes place, with Irisdina telling him that she didn't think that she was going to die since she knew that the unit would come for her. They talk about some stuff and Theodore blushes, and then she reminds him of what she told him at the end of volume , which is basically that after all of this is over, they will go over to the villa south of Berlin that belonged to Theodore family. And while she knew about the death of the members of her unit, she was saddened, but as Theodore mentioned she wouldn't let appear on her face. Theodore then moves to fight Beatrix after getting a few tips from Irisdina on how to beat her, and in the end he manages to finish her off(to my surprise) by stabbing the control unit of the mig-27 with his knife. Beatrix speaks a few lines, which Theodore interprets to be her final words, after which she dies. Now Theodore returns to the rebel's base, however everyone who was supposed to be guarding Irisdina is completely silent. Theodore makes his way to were she is, only to find her lying down, with Katia and Annette besides her. Katia's face was already drenched with tears, and then Annette explains to Theodore that Axman attacked the area, going after Katia's life. However, Irisdina shielded her, and got fatally shot in the abdomen. Axman mentions that as a reward for making it easy to kill her, he will let her die slowly, and leaves afterwards. Irisdina then looks at Theo, and speaks weakly and telling him its fine, since her part is done, and then looks at Katia and tells them not to grieve her death. She asks about Beatrix, and Theo tells her that she shouldn't have suffered much. She then tells Theodore that she wants to see the Berlin without the wall seperating east and west, and Theodore carries her and takes her to his mig-23. In the magazine, there's a picture of Theodore holding her, the same way takeru holds sumika, and yuuya holds cryska. They take off, and fly over Berlin, and Irisdina watches Berlin, telling Theodore that she is happy that germany is not divided anymore. Theodore watches people from the east and west, hugging each other like old friends, and then starts talking to Irisdina, but there is no answer. Theodore, knew what this means, and holds back his tears. He looks at her face, and see a content look on her dazzling face, but still decides to keep talking. He tells her that he loved her, and that he wanted her to find happiness more than anyone else, and keeps flying on. The scene ends here. Now, apparently some time later, Heim tells Theodore that they need him on the frontlines, however he does so unwillingly since it hasn't been much since Irisdina's death, and as such he is worried about Theodore. Theodore takes the whole thing calmly, and meets up with Katia and Annette, the remaining pilots of the 666th. They speak about Irisdina, and Theodore mentions that she told them not to grieve. Katia is very worried about Theodore, and tries to talk to him to help him become better, but he pets her head, telling her that everything would be fine. Theodore mentions in his monologue that the face of Katia isn't the face of a kid anymore, but the face of the girl who helped break the Berlin wall through operation Ursula; in other words she matured. While walking to the TSFs, Annette mentions that the army is thinking of reforming the 666th. Now, as the commander of his unit, Theodore has matured greatly, and decides to keep going to get a better future for his country, and the scene ends up with him walking to his mig-23. Epilogue The epilogue makes a few time skips, telling the conditions of Germany and Europe in each period of time like how Germany was evacuated when the beta finally crushed all the efforts of the German army. It also mentions that Theodore sometimes saw Irisdina in his dreams, and he would ask her stuff like that he was worried that her wound was painful and so on. In general, the series ended on an optimistic note, despite all the death and the crap everyone had to go through, especially Theodore who lost the woman he loves and the only family remaining for him. As for me, I really cried at her death, since like Theodore, I really wanted her to find happiness. I was charmed by Irisdina because she is Irisdina, and because I really doubt there will be such an amazing heroine with all the amazing character traits that she has, and of course, I really doubt someone will be able to create a more beautiful character. In the author's comments, Uchida mentions that schwarzesmarken is part of a bigger project, so apparently the story isn't over yet, and as such he mentions that there will be news about a sequel or continuation in the future, although he doesn't mentions if the future stories will feature the remaining characters, which are Theodore, Katia, and Annette. Another thing: If you read the summaries, you will find out that it's strongly hinted that Karrel, Irisdina's brother, survived. Also, Gretel's death left lots of room for doubt about her actual demise, and as such I have a feeling that she survived. All in all, it's been such a crazy ride, and well, this story is more amazing than the original muv luv and total eclispe, but is as sad however. It's funny how we all read the chapters with anticipation while we knew that europe will fall at sometime, and that most of the characters won't survive. Even though we knew this, I kept reading, and I think that this added to the stress of reading schwarzesmarken; that's right, it wasn't easy reading this story, since there was death all over, and because the characters were amazing it really hurt when they died, and because Carnelian illustrated the characters. Sending such beautiful characters to their brutal or tragic death is just too much, and while I think it was really fortunate that Carnelian was the illustrator, it also made it many times more painful. Ow I forgot to mention that Krike survived as well. Anyways, thanks for reading this summary, and well, feel free to comment. Last edited by LunarChain; 2014-03-30 at 08:03.

2014-03-25, 00:43	Link #465
LunarChain Member Join Date: Nov 2010	There's somethin that i've been wondering about for sometime now.. If Irisidina is christian, why name her unit the 666th, which is basically the number of the beast. You'd think a christian wouldn't want such an evil name, and lol she even makes a joke about the bible once. Not really sure whats goin on here.

2014-03-27, 13:46	Link #471
Micropod Member Join Date: Aug 2012	So, as of the most recent volume, the BETA are on the way to East Berlin, right? And we know from TSFIA that as of September 1983 the BETA are moving on Hamburg. The conclusion of Schwarzesmarken ought to be interesting.

2014-03-29, 03:49	Link #472
LunarChain Member Join Date: Nov 2010	I've been gathering schwarzesmarken material, however I read that some schwarz stories are published in tsfia. These published portions in the tsfia magazine, are they exclusive to the magazine or they're also included in the volumes of the novel?

2014-03-30, 03:31	Link #478
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	THAT IS IT! Anyone has got a saw and a mask? Cause I'm going to kill Kooki! ... Great! Mental Depression! ... Pah... That aside, this is truly Muv-Luv style: Someone has to die after seeing the silver lining.

2014-03-30, 04:27	Link #480
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	Hmm... Does anyone realize that main girls in Muv-Luv usually divided into two archetype: The Silent and The Talkative? That aside, there is this question: How did the Communist Germany as well as Eastern Europe survive, when the main benefactor, Russia, has fallen?