(L) Monogatari Series Light Novel discussion

[mugimugi]

Originally Posted by Pi-face

Errr... nope. He learned about her personality more in Koyomi Wind, Karen Bee and Nadeko Pool.

Not enough to punish her... If he wouldn't be so dense, then all he would have learned there is that she tries to get his attention really badly. Nadeko Pool is pretty much irrelevant, and all they talk about in in those other chapters is other people rather than about Nadeko herself.

[hanekawa]

Originally Posted by omimon

Wooh wooh wooh, wait a minute. Tsukihi knows that she's a kaii? If that's true than holy fuck!!

Didn't she learn about this in Tsukimonogatari? I thought they got rid of it or did I get something wrong.

[Pi-face]

Originally Posted by mugimugi

Not enough to punish her... If he wouldn't be so dense, then all he would have learned there is that she tries to get his attention really badly. Nadeko Pool is pretty much irrelevant, and all they talk about in in those other chapters is other people rather than about Nadeko herself.

It's not about punishment, it's about "help in what Aririgi wanted to help". In Nadeko Pool they were pretty much screwing around, but in Koyomi Wind we cleary see how and what he thinks about her personality. That causes him to feel pity for her -> wanted to help her -> but can't -> Ougi "then I can help" -> after turning her into the goddess Nadeko also turned into Yandere -> Ougi failed in a way. Yet Nadeko was happy.

I wonder... what Ougi will do next? I mean she is oddity based solely on Araragi's self-guilt. So naturally she would like to do something he wanted to do. But what?
She become a boy (or just wearing boy's clothes) and that's not explained part yet. Maybe she is planning to conquer the heart of some of girls? Bring to life his siscon dreams? To be with Miss Class Rep? Or she'll become a plant?

[mugimugi]

Yeah I guess that makes sense. Becoming a plant makes the most sense, but maybe Ougi stays behind to help people, since Koyomi has to leave after graduation. That might bother him and would explain why Ougi is still in town with Kanbaru later. But Ougi might also be just a legitimate individual at point, so she/he might just do live a human life. Maybe she'll become Meme's apprentice... It seems like that Kanbaru might become a specialist due to her family affairs, and maybe Hanekawa too. I'm just dreaming at this point (Kanbaru spin-off pls).
I still wonder if that "life and death situation" was referring to Nadeko, Owari 2 or Zokuowari.

[Level5]

Originally Posted by mugimugi

I still wonder if that "life and death situation" was referring to Nadeko, Owari 2 or Zokuowari.

I think it's about Gaen killing Araragi at Snake Shrine. Araragi literally died at that moment.

[mugimugi]

How many people know about that? Is Kanbaru even mentioned in Owari 3?

[Altima of the Gates]

I wonder... what Ougi will do next? I mean she is oddity based solely on Araragi's self-guilt. So naturally she would like to do something he wanted to do. But what?

I wonder that too.

But what?
She become a boy (or just wearing boy's clothes) and that's not explained part yet.

That was probably for helping with Kanbaru, but that is me grasping at straws.

Maybe she is planning to conquer the heart of some of girls? Bring to life his siscon dreams?

He was getting more friendly with Karen in Hana, so suffice to say, he seems to be handling that himself. He is a lonely onii-chan without his imoutos after all.

To be with Miss Class Rep?

The least likely, since didn't she take the piss out of Hanekawa when they interacted in Owari? But I guess that might have been for a purpose as well.

Or she'll become a plant?

Lol. I guess in a way she is his seed, looking to cultivate the issues that plague his mind.

[Lazy cat]

someone need to teach nisio the meaning of the word chronology

[DorkingtonPugsly]

I feel vaguely unfulfilled and lost that the finale had to do with the kurayami that popped up mid series. I don't know what I was hoping for at all, but maybe zoku will satisfy me more...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by DorkingtonPugsly

I feel vaguely unfulfilled and lost that the finale had to do with the kurayami that popped up mid series. I don't know what I was hoping for at all, but maybe zoku will satisfy me more...

It does confirm something; that Shinobu, when restored to full power, has enough control over herself to want to return to being with Araragi. Until now she had always been worried that she could go feral if she became Heart-Under-Blade again. But the event of the new book showed that their bond is genuine and that she willingly wants to be with Araragi when she was freed.

This is kind of important; because they originally bonded under unsatisfactory circumstances, Shinobu needed to make her own decision in if she truly was willing to submit her all-powerful self in order to have a companion to spend her days with.

What was that term again? "Let it go; if it comes back, it is yours. If it leaves, it was never yours to begin with."

[Pi-face]

Otorimonogatari fully in english:

http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=546496

[DeliriousEagle]

Originally Posted by Pi-face

Otorimonogatari fully in english:

http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=546496

Unexpected.

[Kaengel]

And the quality of the translation is here. Maybe 2 or 3 typing errors and a lack of translation note but still. That was a great surprise here.

[Shikijin]

I've finally finished reading Owari 3. There are a lot of mistakes in the summaries here. For example it's not HELL GOD, it's Jizou Bosatsu, the bodhisattva of travellers and infants, and he is just mentioned in some jokes.

Overall the book have its moments and it manages to tie many loose ends, but it kind of felt anticlimatic at the end.

[Pi-face]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

I've finally finished reading Owari 3. There are a lot of mistakes in the summaries here. For example it's not HELL GOD, it's Jizou Bosatsu, the bodhisattva of travellers and infants, and he is just mentioned in some jokes.

Overall the book have its moments and it manages to tie many loose ends, but it kind of felt anticlimatic at the end.

Previously my friend pointed out to me the fact that there was no HELL GOD, now it only been confirmed, thank you.

Could you tell us what were these mistakes from the previous summary? If there are a lot - surely we would like to know what was there ^^

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Pi-face

Could you tell us what were these mistakes from the previous summary? If there are a lot - surely we would like to know what was there ^^

Spoiler for Owarimonogatari 3:

I won't check through all the details, but the gist is this:

-Araragi fell into Avici Hell, the worst of Buddhist hells.
-Since Hachikuji died before her parents she was condamned to limbo, where she would have piled stone after stone until finally Jizou Bosatsu would have helped her reincarnate. As an exception, that day she came to greet Araragi and brought him to Tadatsuru.

-Tadatsuru explained that basically he was already dead long ago due to an experiment of turning himself into a kaii (he actually lives in Heaven). The one that Ononoki smashed was simply a doll (so basically nobody dies in this series).

-Oshino Meme came to talk to Tadatsuru in the past, and he mentioned that Araragi was basically harmless unless certain things came to happen, which they did. Tadatsuru understood better what was talking about when he was commissioned to kill Araragi - by Ougi.

-Tadatsuru actually knows how to read the name of the park where Araragi and Hachikuji met. 浪白 was actually written 沱白, and read as "shirohebi".

The story is long here, but as explained also by Ougi in the next story, the people there worshipped a water snake god to which a lake belonged. Kissshot evaporated the lake when she came to Japan. The point where she landed was Shirohebi Park. After she left the people had no god left to worship, and most of them had even been eaten by kurayami, so the relocated the temple to the mountains, where aboriginals worshipped the mountain snake god.

-While Gaen was to revive Araragi with Yumewatari, on their side they had to go through a certain procedure. Inspired by is a story about a certain Kandata (look it up), Araragi grabbed a spider's thread which pulled him up. At the last second he grabbed Hachikuji with his legs.

-On their date (which was planned with help by Hanekawa), Senjougahara insisted to play those kind of games where the loser incur a punishment. She tried to win with bowling, which she played during middle school, but she had no endurance and she lost. She lost at karaoke too. Finally, using as a pretext the fact that Araragi didn't bring her a gift ("And here I thought you would have bought me a cruiser"), she forced Araragi to comply to a request of her, calling her by the first name.

-Gaen wanted a god in the city, and Hachikuji while imperfectly, fitted enough. Do you know the story about the snake, the snail and the frog? Well, the snail beats the snake, so she was basically a superior rank.

-Kissshot wanted to turn back into a harmless loli. She was tired of fighting.

-Ougi is basically Araragi Koyomi, the same way Hanekawa created Black Hanekawa. More than his sense of guilt, Ougi is his self-criticism.

-When Araragi learned of kurayami, he was fascinated by the concept of something that punished mistakes and lies. Later, Seishiro absorbed Kanbaru's left arm power through energy drain, and then he was eaten by Shinobu, and that power somehow flew into Araragi.

-Ougi created a barrier that drove away specialists. Gaen was able to enter the city only because she had kokorowatari. She insists she didn't planned it all in advance.

Thes and other things now I don't remember.

[mugimugi]

>She was tired of fighting
Funny because she only fought once in the series.
This is probably Nisio's most spectacular unspectacular series ever.

>but it kind of felt anticlimatic at the end
Somehow to be expected.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by mugimugi

>She was tired of fighting
Funny because she only fought once in the series.

In the series, but in the story wherever she went specialists trying to exorcise her were bound to appear sooner or later, if nothing else because she kills people for nourishment.

This is probably Nisio's most spectacular unspectacular series ever.
>but it kind of felt anticlimatic at the end
Somehow to be expected.

Nisio does love his anticlimaxes, but I wouldn't say that the series as a whole is disappointing. The second season had a lot of nice moments. I just found how things were wrapped in the third season not as satisfying as I hoped. Then again we still miss one volume, but I don't like the inclusion of throwaway characters like Sodachi and this new girl yet unnamed (possibly possessed by something like the old water snake god). While the themes presented are in themselves well thought, in the end the status quo was preserved too much.

[Level5]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

Spoiler for Owarimonogatari 3:

-Tadatsuru actually knows how to read the name of the park where Araragi and Hachikuji met. 浪白 was actually written 沱白, and read as "shirohebi".

Hey, may be it'll be a strange question, but... Can you explain why 沱白 is read as "shirohebi"? In our Monogatari fangroup we have a discussion about your spoilers and one guy is trying to say that there shoul be a mistake in that kind of translations, cause 沱 translates like "tearful" or "flow" (yeah, he doesn't know japanese and using translators for this kind of stuff, but he's like "I'm 100% sure in this").

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Level5

Hey, may be it'll be a strange question, but... Can you explain why 沱白 is read as "shirohebi"? In our Monogatari fangroup we have a discussion about your spoilers and one guy is trying to say that there shoul be a mistake in that kind of translations, cause 沱 translates like "tearful" or "flow" (yeah, he doesn't know japanese and using translators for this kind of stuff, but he's like "I'm 100% sure in this").

Yeah, I thought the same, but in Japanese the meaning and the pronunciation is essentially a convention.

The real kanji for snake is 蛇. The left part is 虫, which in Japanese now means insect, but at the time it was the pictograph of a hooded snake (insects and snakes were thought to belong to the same group). The right part of the kanji is a Chinese original character which was originally a pictograph of a snake too, so basically this kanji is snake + snake. With 沱 you have the radical of water + snake, so you get water snake.

It's an invention by Nisio, but it sort of makes sense.

What's puzzling is the way the kanji are written in the reverse order (it should read hebishiro instead of shirohebi), but apparently the Japanese anciently wrote things like that.