Mahouka LN - Steeplechase Chapter (Volume 13) Discussion / Poll

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

I want an example about the thing you claim.
I haven't seen anyone can use magic without CAD beside Tatsuya and Miyuki.


And bakato, you should add which volume it is in. And Miyuki and Tatsuya are anything but your average magicians. She can't represent the general population.

Why giving an example would be so important when there is a quote specifying it? I posted it already with Tatsuya who didn't need his CAD for his interventions. It's rare but I will give you one, Mayumi's Multi Scope is an ESP superpower, just like Tatsuya's Elemental Sight. Her simple Particle Release mentioned by amtro previously is a NS magic too.

Election chapter where Miyuki goes freeze everything if not for God. Big 3 is impressed.

You know Miyuki is not the only one able to do that right? Gifted magicians can do this(Masaki, Lina, Katsuto, Mayumi etc) true that it is a proof of the talent of a magician but it happens to Miyuki because she is sealing Tatsuya's Psion Count otherwise she would be like the the magicians in the brackets

Spoiler for Quote:

In order to seal Tatsuya's power, Miyuki spent half of her own magic
on her brother.
The fact that Miyuki's magic went out of control was a side effect of
suppressing her brother's magic.

And I found another part which should clear everything

Spoiler for Quote:

I heard that someone witnessed Mibu blushing furiously in a certain someone's company."

Tatsuya suddenly felt a cold draft emanating from beside him.

"Onii-sama...? Please, what is she talking about?"

This was not a misconception. Centered around Miyuki, the room's temperature was dropping dramatically.

"M-magic...?"

Azusa yelped in surprise.

Modern magic theory has spread to the domain of Superpower research.

In other words, one branch of modern magic focuses exclusively on the development of Superpowers.

The biggest difference between Ancient Magic and Superpowers is the need for additional activation steps beyond mere thoughts.

An example of this would be that modern magics do not require a CAD to activate.

At the same time, this does not mean that modern magics are the same as Superpowers.

Generally speaking, "Superpower Users" can only use one type; any more would only be variations of the original.

"Superpowers" systematized modern magic. By using Activation Sequences as raw materials and Magic Sequences as the method, this allowed the number of different magics to grow exponentially.

However, modern magics have also been overly differentiated, so if measured by the same standards as Superpowers, there would only be roughly twenty or thirty types. Even then, this would be an overwhelmingly larger number.

Modern Magicians use Magic Sequences to create elaborate magics. At the same time, for Magicians to use multiple types of magics, in addition to using Magic Sequences as a medium, they also need to use their own spirit to adapt to them.

Specialized magic, if refined to the point where it is on par with Superpowers wielded by Magicians, could be activated by pure thought without the need for intent or will.

However, for Magicians that use dozens of types of magic, to be able to activate magic without intent is pretty much impossible.

While Magic Sequences are processed in the subconscious, it still operates with intent, because unintentionally creating a Magical Sequence and subsequently activating it is impossible.

If a Magician capable of multiple types of magics unintentionally activated magics...

"That phenomena rewriting ability is quite strong..."

In response to Mayumi's murmuring, Tatsuya could only reply with a forced smile.

Even after expending the bulk of the "Superpower", the remainder still had the phenomena rewriting ability to change "reality".

Accidental magic, while a sign of magical immaturity, is also clear evidence of superb magical ability.

[whydo]

Originally Posted by amtro

He has been given several chances to back out, but he hasn't. Mitsugu and Maya both want Tatsuya to resign as Miyuki's Guardian and return to the main house. This implies that he is Miyuki's Guardian by his own will.

In the section where he refuses it's also stated that as long as he is a Guardian nobody is allowed to tell him what to do other than Miyuki.

[whydo]

Originally Posted by amtro

Could Ultramarine be a magatama like the one Tatsuya already has? I'm sure I'm not the only one who has thought of this, it would be a perfect contrast to the red jewel already in Tatsuya's possession.
I'm dying to know what kind of capabilities this thing has. If it has the ability to store psions then it would be the perfect helping tool to go with the magatama's ability to store magic sequences.
Soon enough you won't even need mages, just soldiers with mage-guns.

'Could be the Yotsuba version of Brionac (sp?) that Angelina had. He did use his restoration to fix it after it was broken by Sirrius and in doing so understood how it worked.

[kazzuya13]

So far it has already reached 13 volumes however this is a series in which there is no albino characters as of yet.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Does Erika's personal accel magic count?

She uses her Engraved CAD for that. The baton thing.

[TrueAlchemist]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

I think the way Kazama hide informations from Tatsuya in this volume and tried to use him is really bad. You could argue that he is his superior and that he doesn't have to give him anything but then again the only reason Tatsuya even joined the military was so he can have a give and take operation with them, he's been very very helpful to the 101 independent battalion, he even used Strategic Class Magic twice for them, yet in this volume two members tried to use him.

I agree with you. If you remember the first year 9SC, Kazama invited Tatsuya to the meeting as friend (was it friend or comrade?). So far, he is only using him as a tool. (Where is friendship?) And, Tatsuya knows Kazama also knew the scheme while evedropping the conversation between Yakumo and Kazama. And, he now knows, Kazama purposely did not tell him. Regardless of military ranking, his trust on Kazama is destined to decline. Furthermore, Kazama forgave Kyoukyo for working with Kudo family, but Kyoukyo and Tatsuya will not have a decent relationship after P-doll scheming. So, Kazama has everything that can drive Tatsuya away from himself and 101 independent division.

On contrary, I was impressed with Yakumo. I think, he may be only one outside of Yotsuba who can actually help Tatsuya and can be called and deserves the title of friend or comrade. (Miki, Leo, and Erica do not really know "true" Tatsuya.) Yakumo also took advantages over Tatsuya's relationship with Yotsuba, but based on observation until now I think, Yakumo seems to share common objective with Tatsuya, which is the safety and wellbeing of magic society. I am hoping more actions from Yakumo.

Man, I really hope, Zhou Gongjin to take down / kill Kazama and possibly wipe out 101 independent magic division. His boss wants both GA and Japan to get weaker, but Yokohama invasion only weakened the GA. Outside of TMC, 101 battalion is the key military defense for JSDF, so idea of Zhou targeting 101 or its members are not far-fetched. As a fan of Tatsuya, I think Kazama and his crew may cause a serious damage to Tatsuya at one point or become an enemy of Tatsuya.

Originally Posted by whydo

In the section where he refuses it's also stated that as long as he is a Guardian nobody is allowed to tell him what to do other than Miyuki.

No, that is not true.
Guardians are the lowest ranked personnels in the Yotsuba.
Each Yotsuba has right to choose his / her guardian, but guardians are subjects to take orders from any Yotsuba in the family. If your concept was right, Tatsuya should not take an order from Miya during the past arc. He was a guardian of Miyuki, and Sakurai was a guardian of Miya.

Tatsuya is probably only guardian who can object to the Maya, who is the highest person within the hierachic system of Yotsuba because Tatsuya has no loyalty to Yotstuba, and he is only taking a job as a guardian in order to stay in Yotsuba and ultimately stay next to the Miyuki. When I look at Tatsuya, I would not say, he is above the system, but he is more like outside of system.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

No, that is not true.
Guardians are the lowest ranked personnels in the Yotsuba.
Each Yotsuba has right to choose his / her guardian, but guardians are subjects to take orders from any Yotsuba in the family. If your concept was right, Tatsuya should not take an order from Miya during the past arc. He was a guardian of Miyuki, and Sakurai was a guardian of Miya.

Tatsuya is probably only guardian who can object to the Maya, who is the highest person within the hierachic system of Yotsuba because Tatsuya has no loyalty to Yotstuba, and he is only taking a job as a guardian in order to stay in Yotsuba and ultimately stay next to the Miyuki. When I look at Tatsuya, I would not say, he is above the system, but he is more like outside of system.

I agree with you here. The main evidence for me that this is how Tatsuya exists towards the Yotsuba is how Tatsuya is addressed by the people in the Yotsuba who are actually aware of what Tatsuya really is. Hayama and now Aoki addressed him in previous series as Tatsuya-dono, and some of the rough translations that appeared earlier of the Kuroba at the end of Volume 13 showed the Kuroba men addressing Tatsuya as Tatsuya-dono as well. The "dono" part is key here, as "dono" is used within the Ten Clan families to discuss the heads of other families, whereas "sama" is used within the family. The fact they address Tatsuya with "dono" implies Tatsuya is viewed as a powerhouse that is outside of the main family structure.

[amtro]

The -dono suffix implies heightened status within the hierarchal structure. It's higher than -san, but not quite on the level of -sama. If he was outside of the hierarchy then there are other suffixes for that, dono and sama are not something you use for outliers and nobodies.
They mean that you either acknowledge the status of someone to be above your own and deeply respect the recipient, or that you're forced to given the circumstances.
Aoki referring to Tatsuya as -dono only denotes that he was being overly polite in order to barter with him for Pixie.
Hayama and the Kuroba servants on the other hand appear to acknowledge Tatsuya as someone above them within the clan.
If the translation for the Kuroba servants is -sama and not -dono then we can definitely infer that Tatsuya's status in the clan isn't quite what we had previously assumed, or that it is changing.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by amtro

The -dono suffix implies heightened status within the hierarchal structure. It's higher than -san, but not quite on the level of -sama. If he was outside of the hierarchy then there are other suffixes for that, dono and sama are not something you use for outliers and nobodies.
They mean that you either acknowledge the status of someone to be above your own and deeply respect the recipient, or that you're forced to given the circumstances.
Aoki referring to Tatsuya as -dono only denotes that he was being overly polite in order to barter with him for Pixie.
Hayama and the Kuroba servants on the other hand appear to acknowledge Tatsuya as someone above them within the clan.
If the translation for the Kuroba servants is -sama and not -dono then we can definitely infer that Tatsuya's status in the clan isn't quite what we had previously assumed, or that it is changing.

You have to consider how the other clans use the term as well though. Mayumi and Katsuo address Maya as -dono as well, while the Yotsuba address Koichi as -dono. That is an indication of how the clans address the heads of other families. Considering Tatsuya's relationship to the Yotsuba, it seems they address him that way because they see him more as an outsider than someone who outranks them. When you consider his discussions with Hayama where it is more of a negotiation than orders being handed down, Tatsuya's relationship comes off more as an allied magician to the Yotsuba, rather than a bottom-ranking member.

[amtro]

No, there are rules for the use of suffixes. You wouldn't call your teacher for heika, so you don't call some outsider you see as lower than dirt for -dono, ever.
Mayumi and Katsuto refer to the other heads as -dono because their status is similar being that they're all from the main families, but at the same time they outrank them. It is a show of respect.
You should educate yourself on a subject before you try to fit them into your scenarios. Use google.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by XFire

She uses her Engraved CAD for that. The baton thing.

Hmmmm...but isnt her cad a weapon integrated can only store 1 magic?

[renuac]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

I think the way Kazama hide informations from Tatsuya in this volume and tried to use him is really bad. You could argue that he is his superior and that he doesn't have to give him anything but then again the only reason Tatsuya even joined the military was so he can have a give and take operation with them, he's been very very helpful to the 101 independent battalion, he even used Strategic Class Magic twice for them, yet in this volume two members tried to use him.

We've known since the first Nine Schools Competition arc that Kazama and Tatsuya both know that the other one is only their ally as long as it benefits them. Doesn't stop them from being friends but I don't think either of them would be surprised (or even bitter) at a betrayal.

What I don't get here though is why Kazama was holding back information. I mean, Kazama and Saeki are opposed to any military meddling from the 10MC, and that goes for the Kudou as much as for the Yotsuba. Witholding information from a "Yotsuba combatant" was an indirect way of helping the Kudou (even if that wasn't Kazama's intention). Plus Saeki was liaising with Maya anyway, so it's not like Kazama didn't know that Tatsuya would have access to the intel. Why not just give it to him directly and maintain the best possible relationship with him? Makes no sense. The only thing I can think of is that this was Kazama's way of siding with Fujiyama over Tatsuya. She was always a valuable subordinate and after his forgiving her for her actions in this arc, he is guaranteed her loyalty. It kind of looks like he is preparing the 101 to close ranks against Tatsuya at some point in the future.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by amtro

No, there are rules for the use of suffixes. You wouldn't call your teacher for heika, so you don't call some outsider you see as lower than dirt for -dono, ever.
Mayumi and Katsuto refer to the other heads as -dono because their status is similar being that they're all from the main families, but at the same time they outrank them. It is a show of respect.
You should educate yourself on a subject before you try to fit them into your scenarios. Use google.

Where did I imply that the people who call Tatsuya -dono see him as lower than dirt? The people who do see him that way do not use that phrase, unless you are arguing that Aoki still sees him that way. But there isn't any evidence of this, because the last time Aoki talked to Tatsuya, he used the -dono suffix, and during his phone call with Hayama, Hayama was using the -dono suffix as well. When your superior addresses someone in a certain manner, you do not use a different method of addressing that same person. That meeting between Aoki and Tatsuya marked a shift in Aoki's treatment of him. Aoki had to accept that the only way to deal with Tatsuya is to accept that he is outside the system.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Zoks

Where did I imply that the people who call Tatsuya -dono see him as lower than dirt? The people who do see him that way do not use that phrase, unless you are arguing that Aoki still sees him that way. But there isn't any evidence of this, because the last time Aoki talked to Tatsuya, he used the -dono suffix, and during his phone call with Hayama, Hayama was using the -dono suffix as well. When your superior addresses someone in a certain manner, you do not use a different method of addressing that same person. That meeting between Aoki and Tatsuya marked a shift in Aoki's treatment of him. Aoki had to accept that the only way to deal with Tatsuya is to accept that he is outside the system.

Hayama respects Tatsuya plain and simple,for Aoki,he needed to be polite to buy off Pixie from Tatsuya and failure will get him scolding from Maya,even if he failed,he just had an agreement with Tatsuya,Maya is ok with.

Any spoiler for Erika discussing the Yotsuba with Tatsuya in chapter 2?

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

Hayama respects Tatsuya plain and simple,for Aoki,he needed to be polite to buy off Pixie from Tatsuya and failure will get him scolding from Maya,even if he failed,he just had an agreement with Tatsuya,Maya is ok with.

Any spoiler for Erika discussing the Yotsuba with Tatsuya in chapter 2?

You have to consider Aoki's behavior during the entire meeting. He originally approached Tatsuya as someone who saw himself in a much higher rank in a rigid hierarchy. When he found out that was getting him nowhere he had to accept the reality that Tatsuya can only be dealt with as someone outside the system. You think he'd be that polite to Minami? Besides, he wanted to deal with Tatsuya when Miyuki wasn't around, suggesting he was hoping he could just deal with him like he would deal with any other lowly servant. He probably found out Tatsuya was only holding his tongue around Miyuki and has no interest in playing the subservient servant.

[amtro]

Originally Posted by Zoks

Where did I imply that the people who call Tatsuya -dono see him as lower than dirt? The people who do see him that way do not use that phrase, unless you are arguing that Aoki still sees him that way. But there isn't any evidence of this, because the last time Aoki talked to Tatsuya, he used the -dono suffix, and during his phone call with Hayama, Hayama was using the -dono suffix as well. When your superior addresses someone in a certain manner, you do not use a different method of addressing that same person. That meeting between Aoki and Tatsuya marked a shift in Aoki's treatment of him. Aoki had to accept that the only way to deal with Tatsuya is to accept that he is outside the system.

Again you are making stuff up to fit with your scenario. I'll repeat myself, you do not refer to someone outside of the system with -dono. Use google, or a library, just please educate yourself.
Even if he is outside of their "system" there is still such a thing as a social hierarchy, this is the hierarchal structure I was referring to.
No matter how much strive for it you will never fall out of the social hierarchy, no matter what you do. Even the so-called outsiders have a place in the social structure and it's at a very low place.
The last time Aoki met Tatsuya he refused to even acknowledge his existence, much less use the informal -san suffix. Yet now he's using -dono and you expect everything to be peaches?

[kagato3]

Common useage of dono is to adress someone respectfully while making it clear that they are not above you which sama implies.

This is in part why Miya stressed not calling Tatsuya Oniisama inplaces that only family are at. It can be seen as undermining her authority since as a candidate for the next head is placing herself as being subservient to him. This may have been part of the issue with Kuroba as well since Fumiya was also adressing Tatsuya as Tatsuya-niisama while only adressing his father as Otou-san. I'm starting to think that it was in part trying to hid this that lead to Tatsuya's "exile" from the main house.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by amtro

Again you are making stuff up to fit with your scenario. I'll repeat myself, you do not refer to someone outside of the system with -dono. Use google, or a library, just please educate yourself.
Even if he is outside of their "system" there is still such a thing as a social hierarchy, this is the hierarchal structure I was referring to.
No matter how much strive for it you will never fall out of the social hierarchy, no matter what you do. Even the so-called outsiders have a place in the social structure and it's at a very low place.
The last time Aoki met Tatsuya he refused to even acknowledge his existence, much less use the informal -san suffix. Yet now he's using -dono and you expect everything to be peaches?

I'm not expecting everything to be peaches. I am expecting that Aoki has to accept the reality that Tatsuya is not part of the hierarchy. Tatsuya was rude to him from Aoki's perspective. Look how Minami acts around Mitsugui in this volume and Hayama in the previous one. That is the proper Guardian behavior. Compare that to Tatsuya's behavior. Social hierarchy means nothing because Tatsuya refuses to adhere to it, and they have no way to force him to. Hence he is outside the system. I am taking back my argument on the suffixes though, looking back on the older volumes show the characters themselves are not consistent enough with them when addressing others to make a solid theory with them. Hayama addresses Koichi as -sama, while others use -san or -dono.

[Jedsada]

In early spoiler, Kuroba's agent call Tatsuya-dono, but spoiler from TrueAlchemist they said Tatsuya-sama.

Which one is right?

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Does Erika's personal accel magic count?

Isn't her baton her CAD? How can you miss that?
What a fan!