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Old 2014-07-20, 22:39   Link #1401
playmaker2k
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Originally Posted by ImperialKnight View Post
She was totally compliant in assisting the group kill TrillRam. I mean she was literally "giggling" when she fired that Grenade launcher people I mean come on!

3. When she stood out against TrillRam why didn't she demand him to make contact with the higher order knights? That's the perfect chance to make contact with her people as she originally intended.
To be fair, it wasn't actual ammunition.

I think Trillram wouldn't give her the chance to contact Cruteo.

He would have scraped her just like Rayet's dad and those terrorist if Marito's Navy didn't show up in time to distract him.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:41   Link #1402
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Originally Posted by playmaker2k View Post
To be fair, it wasn't actual ammunition.
I dunno man I dunno a grenade launcher is a grenade launcher you can't go around that.

Speaking of which I just realized something, since TrillRam is dead that means that the orbital bombardment Count Saazabum was doing will still go through no? He said he would lose communication once he was aligned and Trillram bought up the issue that it'll be seen as an attack on Cruhteo?

Be interesting to see how that goes.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:44   Link #1403
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I dunno man I dunno a grenade launcher is a grenade launcher you can't go around that.

Speaking of which I just realized something, since TrillRam is dead that means that the orbital bombardment Count Saazabum was doing will still go through no? He said he would lose communication once he was aligned and Trillram bought up the issue that it'll be seen as an attack on Cruhteo?

Be interesting to see how that goes.
Hey Asseylum, can get away with it since she's cute.

*Rule of Anime and the Universe. (*See No Game No Life for more info lol)

I think their sleeping on Cruhteo. That guy's probably cutthroat in a classy way.

Cruhteo would be the type that would sip on his 50 year old wine while Saazabum tries to cover up his betrayal and suddenly Cruhteo slams his cane on the floor to shut him up like Odin in the first Thor movie.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:50   Link #1404
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Originally Posted by playmaker2k View Post

Triple R, you're a rational guy, but why are you on Mars' side?
Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not on Mars' side. But I don't have to be on somebody's side to expect their rulers to be on their side. Isn't that what rulers usually do?

So Asseylum is special. Fine, great. I'd just like the narrative to explain why she is that way.

Let's even put Episode 3 aside for a second - Why does Asselyum so far appear to be the only Martian to not have a single racist bone in her body? Even her own attendant seems to think a bit lowly of "old humanity".

How the heck does the Princess of a racist supremacist society manage to be like she is?

There's a lot of fleshing out I want to see on the Martian side, because it just doesn't add up for me right now.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:50   Link #1405
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Original creator means you came up with the idea, the main concept. That's significantly less involvement than you think. The actual plot is done by whoever is in charge of series composition.



She had no way to know he would try to kill her.
The person in charge of series composition wouldn't be able to do whatever he pleases if there's an original creator and the said person did the script for the first three episodes. It's almost impossible that the person in charge of series composition and Urobutcher didn't collaborate on a close basis.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:51   Link #1406
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Well, I hope there is a reason, because her actions don't make much sense to me otherwise.
Personally I'd imagine #1 would be a bit risky unless martian forces are nearby and not likely to shoot on sight. If "allied" forces aren't nearby, a martian princess would probably make a great hostage for enemy forces, and you'd have to reveal yourself in a way that pretty much anyone keeping an eye out is going to notice.

#2 seems to be a great way to get in contact with your side if you don't mind taking on a certain amount of personal risk. Ideally you would "mess up" the op at some safe point and command whoever's inside the mech to take you back to a fortress. Firing the smoke grenades I would just consider a requirement to not look suspicious, and it's largely speaking giving time for civilian non-combatants to get out of the combat zone. The somewhat odd bit out if anything seems to be that she was determined to allow them to try and complete the operation successfully. If she'd jumped out of the transport with a line more like "I'll end this now" it would lend more credibility to the idea that she was trying to return to martian forces.

#3 seems like it wouldn't work out very well, though you can clearly see the attendant would prefer that option. Staying put means being taken with the civilians to "safe" zones meaning further from the front lines and "allied" forces. It's not a bad solution if you plan to essentially wait out the war and emerge once your side has conquered the world, but clearly that's not what the princess wants.

Big question for me is how many people saw the princess? Inaho's close enough to see her right on the monitor while Slain needed binoculars, but could Inko have seen her through the sniper, Calm via the drone or someone on the hovercraft? If it's just Inaho and Rayet I can see how the earth military isn't going to find out about her right away, but there's got to be a limit on how many people know the martian princess is among them before someone who wants to use her finds out.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:52   Link #1407
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Originally Posted by ImperialKnight View Post
They do bring up a good point.

From our perspective.

1. The Princess was assassinated by Terran terrorists. Unless she had suspicions some Martians were responsible it's weird she didn't bothered making contact with TrillRam when they were hiding.

2. She was totally compliant in assisting the group kill TrillRam. I mean she was literally "giggling" when she fired that Grenade launcher people I mean come on!

3. When she stood out against TrillRam why didn't she demand him to make contact with the higher order knights? That's the perfect chance to make contact with her people as she originally intended.
On that third point, I think it would be reasonable to assume that given the events so far and how the princess definitely knows that the knights have no real command structure, she wasn't even sure she she could trust Trillram.

This is probably not the best analogy but to compare it with Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, shit has gone down and the princess has no idea if she can trust her father's knights.


P.S. I'm basing what I've said on the assumption that Asseylum is aware of internal strife among the martian knights.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:53   Link #1408
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I heard from an interview the third episode was supposed to have some fabulous development and whatnot, so I was curious. That was kind of a disappointment, but I'll probably watch one or two more episodes to see what the new writer can do.
I think the big deal they were making was just that they were going to use some tactics and counter-strategy and what not with the MC in a grunt robot to defeat the "invincible" big baddie finally. I get the impression that the staff seems to think that what was depicted in this episode is somehow uncharted territory for mecha sci-fi anime or something. Personally I was expecting either that or some sort of curve ball grim dark twist? Maybe that was supposed to be the post credit sequence with the execution I don't know.

In any case I wonder if the staff are going to keep hyping each upcoming episode as something revolutionary and monumental in an attempt to guide and hopefully incite more positive reactions to the episodes out of the audience cause they've been pretty damn hands on and aggressive with the promotion for the show leading up to and during these opening episodes. Personally I'd be more than okay with them toning it down a little on the hyping front for a bit and just allowing the series to take it's course a little, speak for itself and for people to make up their own minds about it, but I get the sense they're afraid that if that were to be the case people might not end up liking it as much or something.

To give people a sense of what Original Creator can mean, all Gundam series must by law and contract list Yoshiyuki Tomino and Hajime Yatate as "Original Creator" despite the former having absolutely nothing to do with the conception of the majority of them and the latter just being a pseudonym for the collective efforts of whatever team is working on a Gundam show at Sunrise at the time. It really can't be used as any sort of significant guideline as to exactly how much involvement a person has in a given work or not, but just indicates that they came up with the concept and pitched it at one point or another.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:54   Link #1409
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After re-watching ep3, I saw that Rayet almost revealed herself as one of the assassins when she said "How did you..." to the princess. I'm guessing she was saying "How did you [survive the assassination attempt]?"

I also wonder if Asseylum may know about Rayet? She didn't look surprised by the fact that Rayet's reaction wasn't shock when she found out her supposedly Terran companion was actually the Vers Princess. To an acute person, Rayet's reaction (or lack of) actually sort of gave her identity away.
I don't think she's given herself away just yet. Anyone who knows what happened would ask how Asseylum survived the assassination attempt. Rayet's question was valid in any context. Now, if she had said, "I thought we..." then suspicion is normal, but so far, it's not obvious that she was in with the assassins.

As for Asseylum knowing, no I doubt she knows. Rayet seems to be a hardened person as is, so a large exclamation of shock probably isn't in her nature, and that was obvious in those few moments they were in that car together. Plus Rayet actually was shocked, she had no idea the princess had survived, so there was nothing to indicate her giving anything away.
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Old 2014-07-20, 22:56   Link #1410
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Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not on Mars' side. But I don't have to be on somebody's side to expect their rulers to be on their side. Isn't that what rulers usually do?

So Asseylum is special. Fine, great. I'd just like the narrative to explain why she is that way.

Let's even put Episode 3 aside for a second - Why does Asselyum so far appear to be the only Martian to not have a single racist bone in her body? Even her own attendant seems to think a bit lowly of "old humanity".

How the heck does the Princess of a racist supremacist society manage to be like she is?

There's a lot of fleshing out I want to see on the Martian side, because it just doesn't add up for me right now.
Slaine Troyard, killer of Trillram "The Cur" and Knight of Zero to Asseylum.

Hurry up and get in that mech, Slaine!

Last edited by playmaker2k; 2014-07-20 at 23:11.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:00   Link #1411
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Slaine Troyard, killer of Trillram "The Cur" and Knight of Zero to Asseylum.

Hurry up and get in that mech already, Slaine!
I have to admit, it would be hilarious if Asseylum thinks well of terrans just because she has a crush on Slaine.

Even so, I could roll with that. It would actually be one of the more believable reasons for her being the way she is.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:09   Link #1412
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I have to admit, it would be hilarious if Asseylum thinks well of terrans just because she has a crush on Slaine.

Even so, I could roll with that. It would actually be one of the more believable reasons for her being the way she is.
The only problem is I don't want a Euphie moment.

To this day, it still hurts watching "that" scene.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:14   Link #1413
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Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not on Mars' side. But I don't have to be on somebody's side to expect their rulers to be on their side. Isn't that what rulers usually do?

So Asseylum is special. Fine, great. I'd just like the narrative to explain why she is that way.

Let's even put Episode 3 aside for a second - Why does Asselyum so far appear to be the only Martian to not have a single racist bone in her body? Even her own attendant seems to think a bit lowly of "old humanity".

How the heck does the Princess of a racist supremacist society manage to be like she is?

There's a lot of fleshing out I want to see on the Martian side, because it just doesn't add up for me right now.
Taking into account she's 'princess' among a nation made up of different factions, she's probably got some sort of parent who takes up the title of king or queen for the Vers. Meaning she's at the very top of the nation's hierarchy (Vers seem pretty monarchical, and nothing is higher than the king/queen) and thus has access to just about everything the Vers know/do.

Given the amount of time the Vers have existed, it is impossible for anyone to be dumb enough to believe they're a legitimately separate race than the humans of Earth. That means someone had to have initiated a pretty wide-spread information purge/propaganda to brainwash their people into thinking otherwise.

Both of these together indicate to me that Asseylum is privy to information that the rest of the Vers are not. She knows and was taught that the Vers came from Earth originally, and being an intelligent woman can put 1 and 1 together to deduce she is no different. Thus the lack of racism.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:21   Link #1414
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I don't think she's given herself away just yet. Anyone who knows what happened would ask how Asseylum survived the assassination attempt. Rayet's question was valid in any context. Now, if she had said, "I thought we..." then suspicion is normal, but so far, it's not obvious that she was in with the assassins.

As for Asseylum knowing, no I doubt she knows. Rayet seems to be a hardened person as is, so a large exclamation of shock probably isn't in her nature, and that was obvious in those few moments they were in that car together. Plus Rayet actually was shocked, she had no idea the princess had survived, so there was nothing to indicate her giving anything away.
Ah, I suppose you're right.

I'm guessing Rayet will probably side with the Princess and Terrans for now, since what good would it do her if she tried to assassinate the Princess again, especially after what happened to her father.

I also wonder why Asseylum didn't show any sadness or remorse watching her own fellow countryman get killed by groups of foreign people - unless she suspects the Mars noblemen are up to no good in the first place.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:32   Link #1415
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Information time!

Someone on the chinese board posted a summary of information obtained from the official website (there are some unlockable information in the website itself). While I can't verify the sources (I don't know how to unlock the official page's code game), the information is most probably real (with pics as well). This is my best translation.

Warning. While nothing major, they might spoil your enjoyment if you intend to learn about the world itself through watching the show. Oh, contain spoilers on the Princess's assasination.

Spoiler for A/Z:
You know, I totally forgot about all the decoded info that you gave to us way back in the first episode. Looking back, wow, if I had payed attention, I would have seen that the name of the guy in charge of the assassination was named Wolf Areash, and then connected it to Rayet Areash who has been a named character since the series started.

Also, since this confirms that Cruhteo is one of the 37 knights, it also means that the knights do go back and forth from Mars, and also that if so, Mars government obviously lets them do as they please, and thus whatever insubordination they commit by staying in the Satellite Belt is completely ignored, and disregarded.

It looks like our Earth heroes will be traveling on the battleship, the UFE Wadatsumi Base with the 4th fleet. What happened to easy names like "Archangel" ?

Also, one interestingly worded bit of information caught my attention.

"The first VERS Emperor is Ray Regalia, succeeded by his son Gillsaia. Princess Asseylum is Gillsaia's posthumous child. Until the second contender to the throne is announced, Asseylum remains the sole inheritor to the throne. Ray Regalia retired in 1997, but returned as the emperor after Gillsaia's death."

I thought it would be a given that Asseylum is the heir to the throne and that they were just waiting for her to come of age. Yet, they explicitly leave it open that a second contender for the throne may appear? Could their be a hidden Martian royal among our cast? Could Asseylum's not be as heir apparent, as we thought?
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:32   Link #1416
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Wow, this thread jumped a bunch of pages since yesterday. Not reading all of that, so sorry if I'm repeating anything.

Very nice episode, in my opinion. There were a couple of times when I was yelling at the screen (when Inaho was explaining the shield and didn't mention that there must be other gaps to let signals through and when Slaine was hesitating about shooting Trillram), but they resolved both of those complaints very nicely. Trillram's death was the most satisfying death I've seen in an anime in a long time.

Really hoping that Asseylum's little light show was an application of advanced technology.

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So Asseylum is special. Fine, great. I'd just like the narrative to explain why she is that way.
You do realize that complaining about how Asseylum's character hasn't been explained by the end of episode 3 is kind of like complaining about how the method for defeating the Nilokeras wasn't explained by the end of episode 2, right? You're not going to get every bit of information you want right away. Sometimes you have to have a bit of patience.

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Let's even put Episode 3 aside for a second - Why does Asselyum so far appear to be the only Martian to not have a single racist bone in her body? Even her own attendant seems to think a bit lowly of "old humanity".
Because every other Martian we've seen has been A) a member of the military, B) her attendant (who has probably been trained to be very concerned with whether or not the princess is behaving properly), C) an active member of a terrorist unit, or D) Rayet, who despite being the daughter of a Martian terrorist hasn't shown any signs of racism herself (possibly because she was raised on Earth).

There's a LOT of selection bias going on.

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Hurry up and get in that mech, Slaine!
Inaho kinda shot it up pretty bad. I'd also expect the good guys to be pretty interested in salvaging it themselves, rather than letting Slaine get it.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:39   Link #1417
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I also wonder why Asseylum didn't show any sadness or remorse watching her own fellow countryman get killed by groups of foreign people - unless she suspects the Mars noblemen are up to no good in the first place.
Believe me, they've been discussing that for pages now.

I'm of the belief that she hasn't "sided" with the UFE or anything, however, she will correct wrong where she finds it, even from her own men. And she holds what her nobles have done as her responsibility.

Also, she knew that Trillram wasn't going to die. Even if they go through the barrier and shot him, the mechs physical shape and thickness protected him from any real harm. She probably also knows a little more about Nilokeras than the others, since she's been living on Cruhteo's castle for months, and they had to give her a tour.

I don't think she suspects the nobles yet, but we'll see. I'm through trying to guess what Asseylum is thinking, I'll just wait to see what she does next next week and judge her thoughts and actions from there.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:46   Link #1418
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Hmm... While this is a war story, I don't feel that much of a 'Survive by all cost' tone. The same with Gen's other works.

One has to wonder what seperate the mech with their atomized barrier. The water scene make me thinking: Air, vacumm,...?
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:47   Link #1419
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Because every other Martian we've seen has been A) a member of the military, B) her attendant (who has probably been trained to be very concerned with whether or not the princess is behaving properly), C) an active member of a terrorist unit, or D) Rayet, who despite being the daughter of a Martian terrorist hasn't shown any signs of racism herself (possibly because she was raised on Earth).

There's a LOT of selection bias going on.
In any case, if the series doesn't show other Martians besides the princess being sympathetic to Terrans, we can only assume she's the only one who thinks like this until proved otherwise. That considering, Triple_R is right that her attitude feels odd and needs to be explained. The characterization has been really neglected until now, especially the Martian side. It's time the show starts to fill in the gaps.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:53   Link #1420
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You missed a key word in what I wrote. That word is portrayed.

How is royalty portrayed when the aim is to make people like them? I think it's obvious that we're supposed to like the Princess in this anime.

Do you think we're supposed to like the Princess, or not? Do you think that good rulers should care about their people and their soldiers, or not?

I think that we're supposed to like the Princess. I think that the vast majority of people would say that good rulers should care about their people and their soldiers.
Even if she was not a good ruler I don't see why the audience wouldn't like her. A lot of people don't seem to have any problem with her actions. There's a good number of people who agrees that her actions were 'just'. No character has 100% positive reception, even a 50/50 split is probably good enough. Plenty of flawed characters are highly popular.


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No, she hasn't. She really hasn't. She doesn't know these terrans, at all. There's all sorts of terrorist/freedom fighter organizations throughout human history (and in our modern day) that mingle amongst civilian populations, using them as human shields. How does she know that these people aren't like that? Fact is, she doesn't.

She is making a judgement call against her people's soldiers on the basis of very limited information. I think it's perfectly reasonable for Kazu-kun, myself, and others to find this questionable, and to want the anime to address this in future episodes.

My point here is that if she knew it was Trillram, and if she knew what sort of person he was, then her actions need no further explanation. Yes, he's a terrible person, and it would make sense for her to suspect the worst of him.

But a random soldier she doesn't know? Why should she suspect the worst of him? Why should she trust complete strangers in a foreign land over one of her own martian soldiers?
Look up Officer Hugh Thompson, which was the officer in the example I gave about the US pilot going against his own fellow soldiers to save Vietnamese civilians. In that case they were already fighting against Viet Cong so it was possible that the soldiers killing the Civilians might have been right, yet he still went ahead and went against his fellow soldiers (who had jurisdiction over him too). His actions at that time could be seen straight up treason, yet we celebrate him for his wartime ethics.


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No, I'm not assuming that. I simply raised an American comparable. I'm not saying that Martian society is just like America's. Nonetheless, citizens generally expect their rulers and their militaries to be on the same page, at least to the point where one side would not engage in military action against the other.
They should have portrayed Mars as a democracy or a republic then. Portraying them as medieval Lords/Emperors brings with it connotations of infighting between lords and power play between the King/Emperor and his subjects that was common for that period in history. I don't think the writers of the show chose a Monarchy/Empire system for the Martians to portray them as a stable government that's strong on cohesion. Just look at how the Lords treat their inferiors.

Historically the civilian government is often distrustful of the military, especially if the Military is lead by powerful leadership. In the US the president is commander in chief, but in other countries the Military generals are powerful enough to disregard the civilian government. We've just had two incidents where the military overthrew the civilian government (Egypt, Thailand). Aside from external invasion, China's entire history consists of regional forces overthrowing the Emperor or the Emperor killing off regional lords who might threaten his reign. In Aldnoah, we're told that 37 Lords defied orders to return to Mars. We're shown that some of them are prepared to fight one another. These hints suggest that the VER Empire might have lost control over some of these forces, which would give the Princess reasons to be on her guard.

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I never wrote anything about expecting a "typical Princess". Please do not engage in blatant strawman arguments, and crude attempts to put words into my mouth.
You said you expected her to be a 'good ruler' because she's a Princess. Why? There's nothing in the show to suggest what her rule is like (or that she's even ruled). Look at the various Martians's impression of her:

Crutheo: Loyalty from a loyal subject to ruler, maybe some bit of affection due to personal reaons
Slain: Infatuation/Love.
Trillham/Boss: Wants to kill her, sees her as an obstacle to their own agenda
Maid: Considers her a God because she inherited Aldonah's power.

There's nothing regarding whether or not she might have been a good ruler. She doesn't even talk about it herself, aside from her dream of making peace with Earth. So why would you expect her to have specific character traits just because she has the title of Princess? Your entire gripe with her character is that her actions are out of character assuming she's what's you consider to be a 'good ruler' but there's nothing in the show so far to suggest that those characteristics are part of her character.
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