Sword Art Online II - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[M.A.D]

Originally Posted by Traece

Think of the worst thing that ever happened to you, and think of a highly notable object associated with that event. Now imagine you have severe PTSD as a result of that event.

Every time you see, hear, imagine, or otherwise that object, you immediately associate it with that event. It's like if you're in a car accident and every time you look at a car you're reminded of that accident.

Broken-tier PTSD: Every time you look at a car, be it real or on TV, you're reminded of your accident. If it's a video game car though, you're not. Even when the video game car is crashing you're completely unphased.

All things aside though, her character is definitely breathing a lot of life into SAOII.

Ooh yeah, in term of characterization, she's one of the best ones so far.

Anyway, from the author's twitter posts about SAOII episode 3, as translated by Tap here's how he justified it:

Originally Posted by Kawahara Reki

Panic attacks are a combination of psychological stress and somatic symptoms. Stress causes perspiration, palpitation, shortness of breath,
chills in the limbs, nausea, and such, resulting in the fear, "if this continues, I might faint or even die for real".

Thus, I imagine that interaction will not occur in a full dive environment where most somatic sensations are blocked.
Such a device would first have to be developed to know whether it truly works or not, however.

So basically, Sinon's brain does experience a panic attack whenever she log in and see a gun, but those sensations are blocked by the AmusSphere so they never got transferred to her body, nor do they appear ingame. Logical?

[Arturia Polaris]

She doesn't have a panic attack, It'd be more like a dream and each time she "wakes up" she's shaking as if she had a nightmare, shown when she logged off GGO and her hand was shaking.

It's all a bad dream, she is worked up but it won't trigger the panic attack, or at least not at this stage.

[Netto Azure]

Rationalizations by the author For SAO?

People will simply handwave it as implausable and keep on insisting it's "bad writing."

Anyways at least Kawahara knows that until the technology gets developed we cannot really know how such things affects the human body.

[Parousia]

I hope that Shinkawa isn't Death Gun, but there's a lot of reason (both meta and in-canon) to suspect it. If Shinkawa is Death Gun, I just hope that the reveal will be executed well.

Same here, I'm hoping for a good reveal and not something that would cause dissatisfaction towards the story

[rladls2121]

This time, Kazuto is in a hospital, a more safe place to log in to a game that is new to him.
I think in this arc, Kirito does not have to worry about his life being taken as of now, but has to worry about other people lives though.

Sinon, thinking she can get overcome her weakness by playing virtual reality game.
While she still gets shaken when pointed by someone with a gun looking object.
She needs more time, and realizing the way to overcome it.
It is hard.

Let's see what kind of guns Kazuto is going to use when he plays.

[Neosovereign]

I think the whole panic attacks -> Amusphere connection might be made a little more clear if we clear up how panic attacks actually work. Although it seems logical that seeing a stimulus (gun) causes you to get scared, and then causes the panic attack symptoms, that isn't really how it happens. The body can react first in a more visceral way. Then that causes a memory/dissociation event that people feel in a panic attack. So theoretically, if the mind/body connection was cut like what seems to happen in the VR world, it would stand to reason that a stimulus wouldn't cause the effects because the body doesn't recognize the effects first.

This is just how I understand panic attacks though, it may not be true for everyone.

[eiyuuou]

I believe Kirito is going melee or blade + gun, unless there is a gunblade.
Even in ALO, he strongly prefers melee over magic.

[Parousia]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

This time, Kazuto is in a hospital, a more safe place to log in to a game that is new to him.
I think in this arc, Kirito does not have to worry about his life being taken as of now, but has to worry about other people lives though.

Sinon, thinking she can get overcome her weakness by playing virtual reality game.
While she still gets shaken when pointed by someone with a gun looking object.
She needs more time, and realizing the way to overcome it.
It is hard.

Let's see what kind of guns Kazuto is going to use when he plays.

Confronting her Trauma would be a lot easier if her mother didn't abandon her from the start. As for her view, she wants to win BoB believing that he can overcome her trauma.

I'm also curious about Kaszuto's fighting ability and weapons

[Arturia Polaris]

I think the OP pretty much spoils us that he's going lightsaber

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by M.A.D

So basically, Sinon's brain does experience a panic attack whenever she log in and see a gun, but those sensations are blocked by the AmusSphere so they never got transferred to her body, nor do they appear ingame. Logical?

Well, if that's the case, it could mean that Sinon really IS getting some kind of treatment. It would then mean, with enough immersion, eventually the panic attack by the brain would stop.

I think the problem seems to be that Sinon has now subconsiously separated "real" and "non-real". She said something about "Just seeing a picture would give her panic attacks." Yet when she recently viewed a magazine about guns she didn't have a panic attack.

So I guess it worked, but considering that seems to be the ONLY thing that improved, she probably need an event stronger stimulus in GGO.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Neosovereign

I think the whole panic attacks -> Amusphere connection might be made a little more clear if we clear up how panic attacks actually work. Although it seems logical that seeing a stimulus (gun) causes you to get scared, and then causes the panic attack symptoms, that isn't really how it happens. The body can react first in a more visceral way. Then that causes a memory/dissociation event that people feel in a panic attack. So theoretically, if the mind/body connection was cut like what seems to happen in the VR world, it would stand to reason that a stimulus wouldn't cause the effects because the body doesn't recognize the effects first.

This is just how I understand panic attacks though, it may not be true for everyone.

Chronic panic attacks do work that way and it stands to reason that inside a VR that prevents the brain from consciously receiving inputs from the real body they wouldn't happen.

However I have issue with the idea that PTSD and Panic Attacks are the same thing. You don't need to have been a victim of a traumatic experience to have panic attacks and panic attacks are not the only symptoms of PTSD.

Moreover panic attacks work that way because in the end the afflicted persons consciously or unconsciously begin to fear the panic attacks themselves which are recognized by an awareness of body changes due to (initially minor) fear or anxiety.

I don't think that simply cutting off the body awareness would work with other cases like phobias, especially if they are the ancestral kind (fear of snakes, heights and so on).

Shino's case is a bit ambiguous, like I said before I'm not even sure that you can classify it as normal case of PTSD. It seems to me that her condition has more to do with a sense of guilt, or a fear of what she can do rather than a fear of what she can be victim of.

[Vsin]

Originally Posted by Traece

Broken-tier PTSD: Every time you look at a car, be it real or on TV, you're reminded of your accident. If it's a video game car though, you're not. Even when the video game car is crashing you're completely unphased.

This one is definitely an oddball, but to me it still makes sense. Although, it kinda makes no sense if you don't have the specific cocktail of trauma + video games.

Skipping the specifics, my trigger is (was?) Alarm Systems. Just the sound of em. That means every fire drill, every time a police car roars by, holding the elevator open for too long, mother burning something in the oven...but the specific sound of a Home Alarm System Siren (yes, there's a specific sound) really set me off, and it still makes me twitch today.

My distinction? Pokemon...specifically RBY and GSC, and the "Low on Health" noise that happens when a Pokemon drops to red HP. The first few times, that was absolutely terrifying - hell, "warning" sounds in general kept me from getting to the Kokiri sword in OOT. After playing the game for a rather long time, eventually I was desensitized to it. However, that didn't do jack squat when it came to stuff like fire alarms or police sirens. I had overcome THAT PARTICULAR variation...hell, I had overcome jumpscares and the like from lurking Newgrounds, but I was still recoiling in terror from reality. This is the Shino/Sinon distinction: Context.

When you're playing a game, you know that the trigger is there and you know it's going to happen. You can control whether or not it happens, and you can choose to consciously avoid it or dive headlong into it. However, you don't expect that to happen in reality.

This is why one could potentially recoil at the sight of a pointed finger, yet dance around a game loaded with guns, and only slightly twinge at the sight of the model gun in your drawer.

TL: DR

It's because the trigger is unexpected, and out of your control.

[eiyuuou]

If your trigger is alarm system, the pointed finger is like a person imitating an alarm sound right in front of your face and you start reacting.


I'll just blame it on "plot"

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vsin

This one is definitely an oddball, but to me it still makes sense. Although, it kinda makes no sense if you don't have the specific cocktail of trauma + video games.

Skipping the specifics, my trigger is (was?) Alarm Systems. Just the sound of em. That means every fire drill, every time a police car roars by, holding the elevator open for too long, mother burning something in the oven...but the specific sound of a Home Alarm System Siren (yes, there's a specific sound) really set me off, and it still makes me twitch today.

My distinction? Pokemon...specifically RBY and GSC, and the "Low on Health" noise that happens when a Pokemon drops to red HP. The first few times, that was absolutely terrifying - hell, "warning" sounds in general kept me from getting to the Kokiri sword in OOT. After playing the game for a rather long time, eventually I was desensitized to it. However, that didn't do jack squat when it came to stuff like fire alarms or police sirens. I had overcome THAT PARTICULAR variation...hell, I had overcome jumpscares and the like from lurking Newgrounds, but I was still recoiling in terror from reality. This is the Shino/Sinon distinction: Context.

When you're playing a game, you know that the trigger is there and you know it's going to happen. You can control whether or not it happens, and you can choose to consciously avoid it or dive headlong into it. However, you don't expect that to happen in reality.

This is why one could potentially recoil at the sight of a pointed finger, yet dance around a game loaded with guns, and only slightly twinge at the sight of the model gun in your drawer.

TL: DR

It's because the trigger is unexpected, and out of your control.

She knew about the toy gun in her drawer. It didn't seem to help her much.

Though there is something to that context thing. The pointed finger wasn't just a pointed finger. She was in a hostile situation.

And there is also the fact that in GGO, she shoots some dude, people congratulate her and stuff. Seek her out to party with her.

IRL, she shot some dude, with bloody damn good reasons, and her own mother rejected her.

So, yes, it is really very convenient she's fine in games and so vulnerable IRL, but I suppose it's not completely nonsensical, especially if you factor in the calming effect the amusphere has on her body.

[TwilightsCall]

She knew about the toy gun in her drawer. It didn't seem to help her much.

While true, there is also the potentially relevant fact that the gun in her drawer is a replica of the actual gun she used to kill the guy in the post office. I doubt she comes across such a simple looking pistol in GGO very often.

Now, if she were to see the same gun in GGO and not have a problem with it, that might be a different story.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

While true, there is also the potentially relevant fact that the gun in her drawer is a replica of the actual gun she used to kill the guy in the post office. I doubt she comes across such a simple looking pistol in GGO very often.

It's not. It's not even a replica of a real gun. It's a replica of one of GGO's ray guns.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

While true, there is also the potentially relevant fact that the gun in her drawer is a replica of the actual gun she used to kill the guy in the post office.

Uh? They look nothing alike, in fact the gun in her drawer doesn't even look like a real gun. More like some kind of sci-fi design.

[TwilightsCall]

I was under the impression she got that one specifically because it was the same/similar to the one she had the incident with. Guess I remembered wrong!

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

I was under the impression she got that one specifically because it was the same/similar to the one she had the incident with. Guess I remembered wrong!

The gun was a participatory gift for entering into the BoB so it was just given to her and everyone else.

[Anh_Minh]

IIRC she had a choice, and choose to get a fake-looking gun because she thought it'd be a lower hurdle than a more realistic replica.